***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

dxhound2005

I'm interested in why 4 people (as of now) are against the charge but will still pay it. If any of them would like to explain. If you are against it don't pay, unless you think something is going to happen if you don't pay. And if something is going to happen to you, the same something will happen to the other people who are say they are not going to pay.

Streetwalker

The engineer working for IW in my parents estate said that it was a complete waste of time installing the meters before the pipes where fixed. He said some pipes in the area had been down for 70+ years and resulted in leaks at every single house in their area of 200 or so houses. Some people are going to get an awful shock when the first metered bills come through the letterbox

Little CuChulainn

Streetwalker wrote: »

The engineer working for IW in my parents estate said that it was a complete waste of time installing the meters before the pipes where fixed. He said some pipes in the area had been down for 70+ years and resulted in leaks at every single house in their area of 200 or so houses. Some people are going to get an awful shock when the first metered bills come through the letterbox

Those bills will be capped at the standard charge afaik.

Phoebas

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Those bills will be capped at the standard charge afaik.

The bills will be capped but if there are leaks on the property they may be shocked by the reading.

I expect a lot of leaks will be found this way. I'll be keeping a close eye on my reading because if I do have a leak, I'd want to be in early with my request for a 'first fix'.

NotInventedHere

Just checked how much businesses in Ireland are paying for water and was shocked to find such a disparity between commercial and non commercial customers. Yet again the public are shafted by this government.

For Info
Commercial water rates per 1000l

DLR 2.28
South Dublin 1.93
Tipp North 2.40
Clare 2.89
Cork City 2.44
MAyo 2.40
Monaghan 2.11

0byme75341jo28

I imagine it's something to do with attracting MNCs to Ireland. The amount of water a plant like Coca-Cola would use would probably cost them too high an amount to stay in business in Ireland if they were charged at 4.88 per 1000L.

EDIT: Just looked it up. Worldwide they used 283 billion litres of water in 2004.

mad turnip

transport is likely easier and cheaper to maintain for commerial

Valetta

NotInventedHere wrote: »

Just checked how much businesses in Ireland are paying for water and was shocked to find such a disparity between commercial and non commercial customers. Yet again the public are shafted by this government.

For Info
Commercial water rates per 1000l

DLR 2.28
South Dublin 1.93
Tipp North 2.40
Clare 2.89
Cork City 2.44
MAyo 2.40
Monaghan 2.11

How much commercial rates do businesses pay and in what proportion to the value of the premises?

Compare this to the LPT that private property owners pay.

When you have these figures come back and let us know who is getting shafted.

padma

I wonder if I set up a small business from my home would I be able to avail of commercial rates for my water?

NotInventedHere

Valetta wrote: »

How much commercial rates do businesses pay and in what proportion to the value of the premises?

Compare this to the LPT that private property owners pay.

When you have these figures come back and let us know who is getting shafted.

Rent, rates and commercial water are tax deductable as business expenses. no such luck for the ordinary joe soap

Larbre34

All things Irish Water

---

>

stimpson

Macie Polite Ostrich wrote: »

I imagine it's something to do with attracting MNCs to Ireland. The amount of water a plant like Coca-Cola would use would probably cost them too high an amount to stay in business in Ireland if they were charged at 4.88 per 1000L.

EDIT: Just looked it up. Worldwide they used 283 billion litres of water in 2004.

And how much is a litre of coke?

Valetta

NotInventedHere wrote: »

Rent, rates and commercial water are tax deductable as business expenses. no such luck for the ordinary joe soap

Completely irrelevant.

papu

Phoebas wrote: »

The bills will be capped but if there are leaks on the property they may be shocked by the reading.

I expect a lot of leaks will be found this way. I'll be keeping a close eye on my reading because if I do have a leak, I'd want to be in early with my request for a 'first fix'.

Leaks on the Property Aren't IW's concern anyway. That's the homeowners responsibility.

Valetta

padma wrote: »

I wonder if I set up a small business from my home would I be able to avail of commercial rates for my water?

Only for the proportion of water used in connection with your business.

You would probably have to pay commercial rates as well.

SEPT 23 1989

Homeowners pay shag all compared to owning and running a commercial premises

Larbre34

Streetwalker wrote: »

The engineer working for IW in my parents estate said that it was a complete waste of time installing the meters before the pipes where fixed. He said some pipes in the area had been down for 70+ years and resulted in leaks at every single house in their area of 200 or so houses. Some people are going to get an awful shock when the first metered bills come through the letterbox

Not really, as so little of the wasted water will actually pass through the meter. Besides, the 'first fix' policy will keep Irish Water busy for a decade or more, should they survive at all.

_Kaiser_

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Homeowners pay shag all compared to owning and running a commercial premises

They also make shag all compared to owning and running a successful business

Otherwise why would anyone bother vs being a standard PAYE wage slave? You takes the higher risks (and costs) but you get the bigger rewards if it works too!

Valetta

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

They also make shag all compared to owning and running a successful business

Otherwise why would anyone bother vs being a standard PAYE wage slave? You takes the higher risks (and costs) but you get the bigger rewards if it works too!

Define successful?

Businesses just holding their heads above water have to pay exactly the same costs.

Irish Steve

NotInventedHere wrote: »

Just checked how much businesses in Ireland are paying for water and was shocked to find such a disparity between commercial and non commercial customers. Yet again the public are shafted by this government.

For Info
Commercial water rates per 1000l

DLR 2.28
South Dublin 1.93
Tipp North 2.40
Clare 2.89
Cork City 2.44
MAyo 2.40
Monaghan 2.11

I wish some of the keyboard warriors here would get the FACTS right.

The WATER charge is 2.44 per Mtr.

The difference is that there is then a WASTE water charge, which industry does not pay in the same way because they may well not be discharging to waste in the same way, as some (or maybe most) of the water they take in is then going out as part of their product.

I don't like the way this has been done, there's way too many crony scenarios in this, but the other side of the coin is that potable water is expensive, and dealing with waste water is also expensive, my father managed a treatment works for 100,000 people in the UK for many years, so I got to know very closely how complex and costly the treatment of waste water is, and that situation hasn't been helped in Ireland by years of
neglect and underfunding of both water and waste treatment.

The Troika and IMF have forced the issue, in much the same way as the NCT was eventually introduced because there was no alternative as part of Europe.

The reality of spending more than they took in has been brought home to the Government very clearly, and the whole banking crisis and bail out has just made the problem 10 times worse than it already was. If the meltdown hadn't happened, we'd still be being faced with things like water charges, but it would (as ever) have been fudged by local politicians because there would have been no compulsion from external forces like the IMF and Troika to make changes that would mean real change.

I would be a lot happier if the issues of "lost" water was being addressed, and if it wasn't being run by people with a state or semi state background, as I have no confidence at all that the people at the top are capable of doing the job efficiently and cost effectively.

The semi state mentality towards things like "profit" and "efficiency" are well known and inappropriate, and the stranglehold of the unions on many semi states has not helped to make them more efficient either.

It's also wrong that waste water charges are levied at the same level as incoming water, as that makes no allowance for water that's used for other purposes. If I choose to wash the car, using a hose, or water the garden to preserve the grass in a period of drought, that water has not gone to waste, it's either gone into storm water drainage (or it should have, if the system has been properly constructed), or it's in the ground. There's also no plan or information about having "alternate" water, grey water or the like, and nothing in building guidance or regulations about using such alternate water, we don't need to use potable water to flush toilets, or take showers, but there's no alternative right now.

.

Voodoo_rasher

What of water customers who are metered and billed by Veolia; will IW bill

them a second time despite Veolia is now an 'agent' of IW.

Private companies are not entitled to your pps number. The Data Protection people advise against giving it to private companies. I'm not giving mine . No way.

NotInventedHere

Irish Steve wrote: »

I wish some of the keyboard warriors here would get the FACTS right.

The WATER charge is 2.44 per Mtr.

The difference is that there is then a WASTE water charge, which industry does not pay in the same way because they may well not be discharging to waste in the same way, as some (or maybe most) of the water they take in is then going out as part of their product.

I don't like the way this has been done, there's way too many crony scenarios in this, but the other side of the coin is that potable water is expensive, and dealing with waste water is also expensive, my father managed a treatment works for 100,000 people in the UK for many years, so I got to know very closely how complex and costly the treatment of waste water is, and that situation hasn't been helped in Ireland by years of
neglect and underfunding of both water and waste treatment.

The Troika and IMF have forced the issue, in much the same way as the NCT was eventually introduced because there was no alternative as part of Europe.

The reality of spending more than they took in has been brought home to the Government very clearly, and the whole banking crisis and bail out has just made the problem 10 times worse than it already was. If the meltdown hadn't happened, we'd still be being faced with things like water charges, but it would (as ever) have been fudged by local politicians because there would have been no compulsion from external forces like the IMF and Troika to make changes that would mean real change.

I would be a lot happier if the issues of "lost" water was being addressed, and if it wasn't being run by people with a state or semi state background, as I have no confidence at all that the people at the top are capable of doing the job efficiently and cost effectively.

The semi state mentality towards things like "profit" and "efficiency" are well known and inappropriate, and the stranglehold of the unions on many semi states has not helped to make them more efficient either.

It's also wrong that waste water charges are levied at the same level as incoming water, as that makes no allowance for water that's used for other purposes. If I choose to wash the car, using a hose, or water the garden to preserve the grass in a period of drought, that water has not gone to waste, it's either gone into storm water drainage (or it should have, if the system has been properly constructed), or it's in the ground. There's also no plan or information about having "alternate" water, grey water or the like, and nothing in building guidance or regulations about using such alternate water, we don't need to use potable water to flush toilets, or take showers, but there's no alternative right now.

.

Volumetric Charges
Type Price €
Water Supply m3:
Wastewater Services m3:
Combined m3: €1.93

1 cubic metre = 1000l

the 1.93 charge is a combined charge for water in and out

Reference below

http://www.water.ie/business/pricing/south-dublin-county-council/

dashcamdanny

Irish Steve wrote: »

I wish some of the keyboard warriors here would get the FACTS right.

The WATER charge is 2.44 per Mtr.

The difference is that there is then a WASTE water charge, which industry does not pay in the same way because they may well not be discharging to waste in the same way, as some (or maybe most) of the water they take in is then going out as part of their product.

I don't like the way this has been done, there's way too many crony scenarios in this, but the other side of the coin is that potable water is expensive, and dealing with waste water is also expensive, my father managed a treatment works for 100,000 people in the UK for many years, so I got to know very closely how complex and costly the treatment of waste water is, and that situation hasn't been helped in Ireland by years of
neglect and underfunding of both water and waste treatment.

The Troika and IMF have forced the issue, in much the same way as the NCT was eventually introduced because there was no alternative as part of Europe.

The reality of spending more than they took in has been brought home to the Government very clearly, and the whole banking crisis and bail out has just made the problem 10 times worse than it already was. If the meltdown hadn't happened, we'd still be being faced with things like water charges, but it would (as ever) have been fudged by local politicians because there would have been no compulsion from external forces like the IMF and Troika to make changes that would mean real change.

I would be a lot happier if the issues of "lost" water was being addressed, and if it wasn't being run by people with a state or semi state background, as I have no confidence at all that the people at the top are capable of doing the job efficiently and cost effectively.

The semi state mentality towards things like "profit" and "efficiency" are well known and inappropriate, and the stranglehold of the unions on many semi states has not helped to make them more efficient either.

It's also wrong that waste water charges are levied at the same level as incoming water, as that makes no allowance for water that's used for other purposes. If I choose to wash the car, using a hose, or water the garden to preserve the grass in a period of drought, that water has not gone to waste, it's either gone into storm water drainage (or it should have, if the system has been properly constructed), or it's in the ground. There's also no plan or information about having "alternate" water, grey water or the like, and nothing in building guidance or regulations about using such alternate water, we don't need to use potable water to flush toilets, or take showers, but there's no alternative right now.

.

I dont think there ever will be either.

I get the feeling that we are going to be encouraged to consume as much as possible as it is being metered .

No tax incentives or grant aid as a private user for rainwater harvesting.

It stinks and the people who voted on the pole that they agree with the current charging system, needs to pull there heads out of the sand and realize they are being screwed over(yet again) by the fools they keep voting in.

This is not about conservation. It about making money of the backs of the public.

The current system is not acceptable to me. I will pay for my metered water when I see real evidence that the government wants everyone to conserve it.

As yet, I must be blind because I don't see sh1.t

In Lonesome Dove

Phoebas wrote: »

The bills will be capped but if there are leaks on the property they may be shocked by the reading.

I expect a lot of leaks will be found this way. I'll be keeping a close eye on my reading because if I do have a leak, I'd want to be in early with my request for a 'first fix'.

But if there are leaks on the property, how would this be fixed. Would people need to hire out a hi Mac to get their drive way dug up to access the pipes. I have no idea how it's done. If it does involve digging up driveways, I would imagine a job like that would cost thousands and for many people that's money they don't have.

Grandpa Hassan

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I dont think there ever will be either.

I get the feeling that we are going to be encouraged to consume as much as possible as it is being metered .

I don't understand your point. If you are metered you're going to want to conserve it yourself. To keep your bills down

listermint

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I don't understand your point. If you are metered you're going to want to conserve it yourself. To keep your bills down

They will raise prices,


'Irish Water Inc' will have to be paid for.


Are you that dillusional to think they will not raise costs considerably to cover Irish waters costs. (whatever they maybe) And then it will be privatised and too late.

Its incredibly how dosile some folks are in here.

I mean seriously? Do people in here just want to pay whatever they are told now and into the future just because they are told to ?

Free market my arse. I hate the comparisons with the Bin Charges they are a dull arguement.

zanador

I am sure this has been covered but what I don't understand is this - water is a finite resource and in some years time whoever has control of it will be in a great position of power.

This has worked out very well for us in terms of oil - definitely no wars or conflict over that.

Why are people supporting this particular implementation of water metering and charges?

I actually don't mind paying for water infrastructure, but I would like some semblance of control over where any extra money goes (ie into a proper healthcare system, proper education system, proper transport network or whatever). Why are some of you happy for some business man with no investment into our community to get money for this? I really don't get it.

dashcamdanny

zanador wrote: »

I am sure this has been covered but what I don't understand is this - water is a finite resource and in some years time whoever has control of it will be in a great position of power.

This has worked out very well for us in terms of oil - definitely no wars or conflict over that.

Why are people supporting this particular implementation of water metering and charges?

I actually don't mind paying for water infrastructure, but I would like some semblance of control over where any extra money goes (ie into a proper healthcare system, proper education system, proper transport network or whatever). Why are some of you happy for some business man with no investment into our community to get money for this? I really don't get it.

Because they are Morons. Lemmings , gullible folk . Fools with their money .

The list goes on.

Or people with vested interest in creating a media and social network facade .

Hijpo

zanador wrote: »

I am sure this has been covered but what I don't understand is this - water is a finite resource and in some years time whoever has control of it will be in a great position of power.

This has worked out very well for us in terms of oil - definitely no wars or conflict over that.

Why are people supporting this particular implementation of water metering and charges?

I actually don't mind paying for water infrastructure, but I would like some semblance of control over where any extra money goes (ie into a proper healthcare system, proper education system, proper transport network or whatever). Why are some of you happy for some business man with no investment into our community to get money for this? I really don't get it.

Cue the "look at all the people he's keeping in employment" spin. Even if he is a tax exile.

zanador

Hijpo wrote: »

Cue the "look at all the people he's keeping in employment" spin. Even if he is a tax exile.

Surely the same amount of people will be kept in employment whoever runs it?