***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

FloatingVoter

EunanMac wrote: »

You've already stated it is, why is the PPS number required for the allowance ?

OK, read this slowly. Your PPS is a unique identifier to tell Irish Water who you are and what you are entitled to. You are but a 7 digit number followed by a letter. Other people share your name. Other people may share your address. So you need a number.
If you need to emigrate to avoid this - you will find the US requires a social security number. So does the UK.
Keep it secret - that is your right. Only you and anybody who gives a toss about you in Revenue or Social Protection will have access to it.

Valetta

EunanMac wrote: »

That's not true
I've encountered many services that require multiple forms of ID but no PPS number.
How do they manage ?

Can you explain why no PPS number is required for the TV licence ?

So why do Irish Water need a PPS number ?

You appear to know the answers, so why ask the questions.

EunanMac

FloatingVoter wrote: »

OK, read this slowly. Your PPS is a unique identifier to tell Irish Water who you are and what you are entitled to. You are but a 7 digit number followed by a letter. Other people share your name. Other people may share your address. So you need a number.
If you need to emigrate to avoid this - you will find the US requires a social security number. So does the UK.
Keep it secret - that is your right. Only you and anybody who gives a toss about you in Revenue or Social Protection will have access to it.

You're still avoiding the question, why is a PPS number required for this ?
Many other service providers are perfectly able to confirm unique identity without demanding a PPS number

EunanMac

Valetta wrote: »

You appear to know the answers, so why ask the questions.

There's been lots of straw men, attempted diversions, red herrings, and frantic hand waving.
Which is both interesting and telling.

I've yet to hear any answer to the actual question.

Why answer when you don't know ?

FloatingVoter

EunanMac wrote: »

You're still avoiding the question, why is a PPS number required for this ?
Many other service providers are perfectly able to confirm unique identity without demanding a PPS number

Ask your dad. You're gone to ignore [snore] now.

dxhound2005

EunanMac wrote: »

You're still avoiding the question, why is a PPS number required for this ?
Many other service providers are perfectly able to confirm unique identity without demanding a PPS number

What other service providers, with a metered supply have to establish how many people and how many children are living at an address?

Valetta

EunanMac wrote: »

You're still avoiding the question, why is a PPS number required for this ?
Many other service providers are perfectly able to confirm unique identity without demanding a PPS number

I've already answered, but you chose to ignore it.

Not everyone has a driving license or a passport.

Your PPS number is a guaranteed way of identifying yourself.

That is why they require it.

EunanMac

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Ask your dad. You're gone to ignore [snore] now.

He's passed away, do you think you are funny ?

trashcan

S.O wrote: »

On a water charges related note, Simon Coveney while giving an interview on newstalk this morning said

(at the moment Irish taxpayers are paying about 1.2 billion euros for the cost of water, water is not free at the moment)

His comment contradicts the argument some people make on internet forums that water is somehow free and now all of a sudden we need to pay for it, when we already paying for it through general taxation.

So, they'll be reducing income tax, or perhaps VAT to take account of that, now that we'll be paying for water directly, yes ?

Valetta

trashcan wrote: »

So, they'll be reducing income tax, or perhaps VAT to take account of that, now that we'll be paying for water directly, yes ?

No. The money will be used to pay down debt.

dxhound2005

trashcan wrote: »

So, they'll be reducing income tax, or perhaps VAT to take account of that, now that we'll be paying for water directly, yes ?

Probably not since there is a big shortfall in taxation versus expenditure. Spending on Social Protection, Health and Education use up all the taxes. But don't worry, our next government will probably be composed of parties that will do away with property tax and water charges. Happy days ahead.

EunanMac

Valetta wrote: »

No. The money will be used to pay down debt.

Who's debt ?

trashcan

Wasn't a serious question :cool: More making a point. This is what the anti water charge/bin charge people always maintained. We're paying for it already, it's double taxation. Interesting to hear a Govt Minister admit as much.

srsly78

The Irish public debt, incurred because everyone went full retard on property.

How many unregistered landlords are gonna get caught out by this pps number thing I wonder?

EunanMac

Valetta wrote: »

I've already answered, but you chose to ignore it.

Not everyone has a driving license or a passport.

Your PPS number is a guaranteed way of identifying yourself.

That is why they require it.

You haven't, how do other service providers manage to verify identity without PPS numbers ?

Why does the TV licence not require a PPS number ?

srsly78

If you want to get the free tv licence as a pensioner you would need to provide pps number.

dxhound2005

EunanMac wrote: »

You haven't, how do other service providers manage to verify identity without PPS numbers ?

Why does the TV licence not require a PPS number ?

My TV doesn't work on a meter and RTE don't need to know how many people are in my house.

dxhound2005

Whoever said they opened a bank account without giving their PPS number must have done so in the good old days.

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/opening-an-account#documentation

If you open an account that pays interest on your money, you also need to supply your PPS (personal public service number). If you do not have a PPS number, you can contact your local social welfare office for details on how to apply for one, or a bank may accept a copy of your birth certificate instead. -

Ogham

EunanMac wrote: »

You haven't, how do other service providers manage to verify identity without PPS numbers ?

Why does the TV licence not require a PPS number ?

Hopefully this will answer all your queries about PPS numbers.

Irish Water are giving away water directly in the form of free allowances.
The govt have decided this was the best thing to do . (Irish Water didn't want to do it like that)
The govt have also decided that the free household allowance of 30000 l can only be claimed by a person on the main residence - not on holiday homes etc . By using the only reliable unique identifier (PPS) we have - they can try and ensure that one person does not get more than 1 free allowance. Using name / dob/ just wouldn't work.

Likewise - the child water allowance (21000) is given to each child. In order to verify the existence of a child - the PPS is the only reliable method. Otherwise the system would be wide open to fraud.

Any other welfare related stuff to do with free tv or electricity is handled by social welfare themselves who already have the PPS numbers. ESB don't give the free electricity allowance - social welfare pay it out.
An Post don't need PPS no's - they get told by welfare not to charge if person is entitled to a free one.

More good stuff here - http://www.moneyguideireland.com/irish-water-to-use-pps-numbers.html

EunanMac

Ogham wrote: »

Hopefully this will answer all your queries about PPS numbers.

Irish Water are giving away water directly in the form of free allowances.
The govt have decided this was the best thing to do . (Irish Water didn't want to do it like that)
The govt have also decided that the free household allowance of 30000 l can only be claimed by a person on the main residence - not on holiday homes etc . By using the only reliable unique identifier (PPS) we have - they can try and ensure that one person does not get more than 1 free allowance. Using name / dob/ just wouldn't work.

Likewise - the child water allowance (21000) is given to each child. In order to verify the existence of a child - the PPS is the only reliable method. Otherwise the system would be wide open to fraud.

Any other welfare related stuff to do with free tv or electricity is handled by social welfare themselves who already have the PPS numbers. ESB don't give the free electricity allowance - social welfare pay it out.
An Post don't need PPS no's - they get told by welfare not to charge if person is entitled to a free one.

More good stuff here - http://www.moneyguideireland.com/irish-water-to-use-pps-numbers.html

Thanks for actually trying to answer the question, instead of trying the usual strawmen, red herrings and frantic hand waving. A refreshing change from the usual shills.
Plenty other service providers are able to verify unique identity without PPS numbers.
So if someone has several family members at college, and abroad, all they have to do is list out their PPS numbers and they get this allowance, even though they are not really there ? Great system all right.

dxhound2005

Ogham wrote: »

Hopefully this will answer all your queries about PPS numbers.

Irish Water are giving away water directly in the form of free allowances.
The govt have decided this was the best thing to do . (Irish Water didn't want to do it like that)
The govt have also decided that the free household allowance of 30000 l can only be claimed by a person on the main residence - not on holiday homes etc . By using the only reliable unique identifier (PPS) we have - they can try and ensure that one person does not get more than 1 free allowance. Using name / dob/ just wouldn't work.

Likewise - the child water allowance (21000) is given to each child. In order to verify the existence of a child - the PPS is the only reliable method. Otherwise the system would be wide open to fraud.

Any other welfare related stuff to do with free tv or electricity is handled by social welfare themselves who already have the PPS numbers. ESB don't give the free electricity allowance - social welfare pay it out.
An Post don't need PPS no's - they get told by welfare not to charge if person is entitled to a free one.

More good stuff here - http://www.moneyguideireland.com/irish-water-to-use-pps-numbers.html

You went to a lot of trouble to tell them what they know already. But they will be back with more questions.

Ogham

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You went to a lot of trouble to tell them what they know already. But they will be back with more questions.

He beat you to it !!

EunanMac

dxhound2005 wrote: »

But they will be back with more questions.

How dare the ordinary taxpayers ask questions.
Isn't free speech a bitch

Banjo String

Valetta wrote: »

You won't gets free electricity allowance without supplying your PPS number.

You won't be able to open a bank account without supplying your PPS number.

Valetta wrote: »

Try doing it tomorrow and see how you get on.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Whoever said they opened a bank account without giving their PPS number must have done so in the good old days.

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/opening-an-account#documentation

If you open an account that pays interest on your money, you also need to supply your PPS (personal public service number). If you do not have a PPS number, you can contact your local social welfare office for details on how to apply for one, or a bank may accept a copy of your birth certificate instead. -

I thought all you guys were on the same side.

I actually was logging on to post the same quote and source as dx, but kudos to him he saved me the bother.

Let me point it out to you......

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you do not have a PPS number, you can contact your local social welfare office for details on how to apply for one, or a bank may accept a copy of your birth certificate instead.

Or, long story short, you don't need a pps no in order to open a bank account. It may be handier to give one, but it's not a necessity.

And that's not me saying that, that's taken from http://www.consumerhelp.ie/opening-an-account

Son Of A Vidic

EunanMac wrote: »

Who's debt ?

Careful now, you'll make Angela blush.

ceroc81

EunanMac wrote: »

Why do they need a PPS number to verify this, there are many other forms of ID, and in fact a PPS number is not considered ID

What type of I.Ds are you thinking about?
Passport? I'm from Sweden, with a Swedish passport, I have 3 siblings who are still living in Sweden, so what differentiates my passport from 3 siblings passports? I.e. how would they be able to tell that the passport holder resides in Ireland? Otherwise I could ask my siblings to send me their passport details and 4 people are now living at my home!

National Identity Card - I could order one from Sweden, costs me 40€ and still doesn't tie me to Ireland, so I would have to get an Irish one, a quick googling didn't give much, is the Irish equivalent of a National Identity Card the Garda Age Card?
I don't imagine everyone has one of those either so looks like a bit of hassle to get everyone to get one of those.

Driving License - Yup, got one of those, and you guessed right it's also Swedish

chasm

EunanMac wrote: »

Thanks for actually trying to answer the question, instead of trying the usual strawmen, red herrings and frantic hand waving. A refreshing change from the usual shills.
Plenty other service providers are able to verify unique identity without PPS numbers.
So if someone has several family members at college, and abroad, all they have to do is list out their PPS numbers and they get this allowance, even though they are not really there ? Great system all right.

PPS numbers will be verified with DoSP in order to receive the allowance. The allowance for children is only applied to children aged 17 or under who live at the address and are in receipt of Child Benefit. Im sure if a person put down the PPS number for a 17 year old who was no longer in the country the SW would know and then the allowance would not be given for that child.

If, like me, you haven't received the application pack yet this is what the form looks like.
http://www.water.ie/docs/Irish-Water-customer-application-form-ENGLISH-SAMPLE.pdf

dxhound2005

EunanMac wrote: »

How dare the ordinary taxpayers ask questions.
Isn't free speech a bitch

Who are these plenty of other service providers you keep writing about? Do any of them use meters? Do any of them have to give an allowance rather than use the meter figure?

Your dishonest friends may claim for loads of people not living at their address but the cross checking will ensure that if those people get the allowance at that address they won't get it anywhere else.

Ogham

EunanMac wrote: »

Thanks for actually trying to answer the question, instead of trying the usual strawmen, red herrings and frantic hand waving. A refreshing change from the usual shills.
Plenty other service providers are able to verify unique identity without PPS numbers.
So if someone has several family members at college, and abroad, all they have to do is list out their PPS numbers and they get this allowance, even though they are not really there ? Great system all right.

1 Other service provviders just send out bills - they aren't too bothered exactly who you are as long as they have a name and address and they get paid. They have their own reference numbers etc etc. They don't have to be able to potentially cross check with welfare or revenue to see if a person exists.

2 - The free allowance is ONE per house not 1 per person. If someone had 2 homes and they said their adult son lived in the second home (but he is really overseas) and gave his PPS number - then there is a chance they might get the free allowance. BUT - they would have to lie on the form obviously and say he lived there all the time. That would be fraud - and it will happen but using PPS will help reduce it.

(This is My last reply )

EunanMac

Ogham wrote: »

1 Other service provviders just send out bills - they aren't too bothered exactly who you are as long as they have a name and address and they get paid. They have their own reference numbers etc etc. They don't have to be able to potentially cross check with welfare or revenue to see if a person exists.

2 - The free allowance is ONE per house not 1 per person. If someone had 2 homes and they said their adult son lived in the second home (but he is really overseas) and gave his PPS number - then there is a chance they might get the free allowance. BUT - they would have to lie on the form obviously and say he lived there all the time. That would be fraud - and it will happen but using PPS will help reduce it.

(This is My last reply )

Again, you're claiming a PPS number is the only way to establish unique identity, yet many other operations do not even accept it as proof of identity.