***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

dxhound2005

The biggest gathering of humanity in history was last year, the Kumbh Mela in India. I'd say this was a close second.

VinLieger

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What agenda do RTE and the Gardaí have?

The Gardai not really any but RTE have been known to massage figures to suit whatever lean they are taking on an issue.

And btw EVERYONE has an agenda it may not necessarily be an obvious one though or have anything to do with the issue at hand.
For instance hypthetically the Gardai might have underestimated turnout so to cover up them not having enough gardai on duty they will report a lower number to cover up a mistake.

mickydoomsux

VinLieger wrote: »

The Gardai not really any but RTE have been known to massage figures to suit whatever lean they are taking on an issue.

And btw EVERYONE has an agenda it may not necessarily be an obvious one though or have anything to do with the issue at hand.
For instance hypthetically the Gardai might have underestimated turnout so to cover up them not having enough gardai on duty they will report a lower number to cover up a mistake.

Someone would have to be counting the gardai for that to matter

zanador

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What agenda do RTE and the Gardaí have?

How can we know either way? Blind belief is a dangerous thing

VinLieger

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Someone would have to be counting the gardai for that to matter

If any kind of violence were to break people would be counting Gardai, it's purely hypothetical to demonstrate one way Gardai might have an agenda

Iwasfrozen

zanador wrote: »

How can we know either way? Blind belief is a dangerous thing

Agreed but the burden of proof lies on the person making the claims of corruption.

zanador

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No they aren't. RTE are an independent body. I'm sorry if that negatively affects your claims of bias but that's the truth.


All absolutely irrelevant to the fact that the gardai are an independent body with no incentive to misreport the numbers.


True but the protestors have an incentive to lie, RTE and the gardai do not.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Agreed but the burden of proof lies on the person making the claims of corruption.

I was reacting to the first quote above (and a couple of others) where you said RTE and the Gardai have no incentive to lie. This comes across as having a blind belief in those two organisations. They MAY have incentives to lie, and they may not, we don't know. So err on the side of caution and say perhaps they do, I am not going to believe them either but go and look for as much info as I can. Saying they don't is naive imo

Iwasfrozen

zanador wrote: »

I was reacting to the fist quote above (and a couple of others) where you said RTE and the Gardai have no incentive to lie. This comes across as having a blind belief in those two organisations. They MAY have incentives to lie, and they may not, we don't know. So err on the side of caution and say perhaps they do, I am not going to believe them either but go and look for as much info as I can.

Again, if you want to say RTE or the Gardai have incentives to lie then the burden of proof lies on you.

zanador

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Again, if you want to say RTE or the Gardai have incentives to lie then the burden of proof lies on you.

But I'm not saying they do. I'm saying they might. (I know others say they do with no proof, I get what you're saying)

dxhound2005

zanador wrote: »

I was reacting to the first quote above (and a couple of others) where you said RTE and the Gardai have no incentive to lie. This comes across as having a blind belief in those two organisations. They MAY have incentives to lie, and they may not, we don't know. So err on the side of caution and say perhaps they do, I am not going to believe them either but go and look for as much info as I can. Saying they don't is naive imo

Saying RTE may have incentives to lie is like saying there may be mice on the moon. Either they have or they haven't, no may about it.

Banjo String

eeepaulo wrote: »

You are towards the front arent you

I was yeah. (you been watching me lol?)

Now enjoying an ice cold Erdinger. I think I earned it after that walk.

Iwasfrozen

zanador wrote: »

But I'm not saying they do. I'm saying they might.

I know you are, but given the lack of evidence to the contrary we can only assume they aren't. You can't logically assume a body might have a conflict of interest without any proof.

Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

zanador

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Saying RTE may have incentives to lie is like saying there may be mice on the moon. Either they have or they haven't, no may about it.

But it's not as black and white as that, in this place in time I don't know what the truth is. I can think of any number of reasons why a media source would have an incentive to lie. I don't know whether RTE have any or not but that's not the point, they COULD. So that needs to be a factor in my opinion making too.

SaveOurLyric

In other news :
"4.6 million Irish people support new water charge system, and boycott protest in Dublin"
Tiny minority turns out to protest.

dxhound2005

zanador wrote: »

But it's not as black and white as that, in this place in time I don't know what the truth is. I can think of any number of reasons why a media source would have an incentive to lie. I don't know whether RTE have any or not but that's not the point, they COULD. So that needs to be a factor in my opinion making too.

Give me two out of that any number.

zanador

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I know you are, but given the lack of evidence to the contrary we can only assume they aren't. You can't logically assume a body might have a conflict of interest without any proof.

Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Yes, but not when it comes to sources of information. I don't automatically trust any of them. Or automatically think they're lying. Equally you can't assume they don't have an agenda because if you do then you are not thinking critically about things.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Give me two out of that any number.

Sorry, I don't understand this?

Banjo String

20Cent wrote: »

Ya can knock the "usual suspects" hippies and scumbags meme. Crowd at march are citizens from all walks of life.

On that.

I was quite close to the front, as in, I WAS at the front.

The march passed a hearse with a coffin inside it, and their was immediate silence from all.

Five minutes later, we came across a bride and groom and a wedding party about to depart a chapel, to which the crowd gave a resounding cheer.

There wasn't as much as a dirty look thrown, never mind trouble, and yeah, there was folk marching from all walks of life, hippies, pensioners, young, middle aged, I even seen a group of doctors (yeah they were real doctors) in the March.

Today (i reckon) has spelt the end of Irish Water. The people have awoken.

cajonlardo

Serious amount of whistling past the Graveyard on these threads.

dxhound2005

zanador wrote: »

But it's not as black and white as that, in this place in time I don't know what the truth is. I can think of any number of reasons why a media source would have an incentive to lie. I don't know whether RTE have any or not but that's not the point, they COULD. So that needs to be a factor in my opinion making too.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Give me two out of that any number.

Sorry, I don't understand this?[/QUOTE]

You can think of any number of reasons. Give me two you thought of.

KERSPLAT!

Banjo String wrote: »

On that.

I was quite close to the front, as in, I WAS at the front.

The march passed a hearse with a coffin inside it, and their was immediate silence from all.

Five minutes later, we came across a bride and groom and a wedding party about to depart a chapel, to which the crowd gave a resounding cheer.

There wasn't as much as a dirty look thrown, never mind trouble, and yeah, there was folk marching from all walks of life, hippies, pensioners, young, middle aged, I even seen a group of doctors (yeah they were real doctors) in the March.

Today (i reckon) has spelt the end of Irish Water. The people have awoken.

Even if it was 100k, that's not the people, that's some of the people. It also isn't the nd of Irish water, there may be some changes in how things are done but IW and water charges are here to stay

SaveOurLyric

zanador wrote: »

I was reacting to the first quote above (and a couple of others) where you said RTE and the Gardai have no incentive to lie. This comes across as having a blind belief in those two organisations. They MAY have incentives to lie, and they may not, we don't know. So err on the side of caution and say perhaps they do, I am not going to believe them either but go and look for as much info as I can. Saying they don't is naive imo

Agree. The only ones with a clear and known incentive to lie are the protest organisers. Therefore, their estimate is the one with least, or zero, credibility.

Gatling

Just heard a load of Garda vehicles flying thorough Crumlin lights and sirens blaring .

Is town actually calm ?

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

On that.

I was quite close to the front, as in, I WAS at the front.

The march passed a hearse with a coffin inside it, and their was immediate silence from all.

Five minutes later, we came across a bride and groom and a wedding party about to depart a chapel, to which the crowd gave a resounding cheer.

There wasn't as much as a dirty look thrown, never mind trouble, and yeah, there was folk marching from all walks of life, hippies, pensioners, young, middle aged, I even seen a group of doctors (yeah they were real doctors) in the March.

Today (i reckon) has spelt the end of Irish Water. The people have awoken.

How many Erdingers have you had?

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How many Erdingers have you had?

Lol, not even one full one yet.

Seriously, there has been calls by the various speakers for the public not to engage with them, and to boycott the bills. Also, another nation wide protest has been called for Nov 1st.

Time will tell I suppose.

padma

I have to say Im surprised at An Garda Siochain counting ability. 30,000 people apparently fill the road from Trinity college up to Parnell Street. Shame that they are backing the state in this one. Collective security for surety.

Banjo String

padma wrote: »

I have to say Im surprised at An Garda Siochain counting ability. 30,000 people apparently fill the road from Trinity college up to Parnell Street. Shame that they are backing the state in this one. Collective security for surety.

Trust me, there was at LEAST 100K there today, at LEAST.

I am not a 'protest organiser' I simply attended with my father in-law.

Keep watching the media reports, it'll soon emerge who is right or wrong, the Gardai are making serious counting errors there.

20Cent

Garda always underestimate marches last thing they want is a popular cause to be policing. Everyone go to work, make purchases then go home.

mickydoomsux

Banjo String wrote: »

Today (i reckon) has spelt the end of Irish Water. The people have awoken.

Because a tiny minority of the population showed up to a protest on a weekend afternoon?

eeepaulo

Anyone know how they go about measuring crowd number?

Would they estimate how many people pass a point during a certain time?

Length of march?

Software?

SaveOurLyric

Banjo String wrote: »

I am not a 'protest organiser' I simply attended with my father in-law.

So you've no experience of estimating crowd sizes then ?
But a biased interest in overstating this one ?