***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Gosub

First I will state that I'm not against paying for water, just as I'm not against paying for electricity or phone service. I've paid for water when I lived abroad, so maybe I'm just used to the idea.

The real problem with the Irish version of paying for water is going to be the cost. I don't know how many people here, whether pro or con, have worked out an estimate of how much they will end up paying for their water. I have, and I'm shocked!

In Spain, my water bill worked out at around €240 per year. I certainly didn't try to keep my usage down. Gardens got watered, cars got washed, etc. True, the water quality was below the level where you would drink from the tap, but it was fine for showers, washing, brushing teeth and washing clothes.

There are just the two of us in the house and we conserve, recycle and harvest water. From my estimate, it looks like our water bill will be in the region of €750 per year! This is scandalous and deserves to be opposed. How can anyone justify such a high figure for just two, water conscious, people?

I would urge all those defending these charges to spend a little time working out an estimate of their usage, and therefore, cost. The figures are all available for you to do this easily. The average person will flush the toilet five times a day. That's 45 liters of water per person per day. For two people, that's more than your whole free allowance for the year... Just flushing the toilet!

A washing machine will use typically 60 liters per use, a dishwasher typically 45 liters. Include baths, showers, brushing teeth, washing, etc. I think many will be surprised at the bill they will end up facing.

L'Enfer du Nord

Sorry if this has already come up but...

I hadn't received any correspondence from IW so I rang them up to find out what the story was. It turned out that they had sent out a pack to me at an address I moved out almost exactly a year ago. When I asked where they got that address from they wouldn't tell me, because the person I was talking to couldn't find out from 'the system'.

Anyone know where they are getting their data from, also surely water charges are by the address/house hold not the individual. So the starting point should be the address then who lives there, someone else lives at my old address now, how come they couldn't find this out. How come my current address is a secret to them?

jaykay74

Gosub wrote: »

First I will state that I'm not against paying for water, just as I'm not against paying for electricity or phone service. I've paid for water when I lived abroad, so maybe I'm just used to the idea.

The real problem with the Irish version of paying for water is going to be the cost. I don't know how many people here, whether pro or con, have worked out an estimate of how much they will end up paying for their water. I have, and I'm shocked!

In Spain, my water bill worked out at around €240 per year. I certainly didn't try to keep my usage down. Gardens got watered, cars got washed, etc. True, the water quality was below the level where you would drink from the tap, but it was fine for showers, washing, brushing teeth and washing clothes.

There are just the two of us in the house and we conserve, recycle and harvest water. From my estimate, it looks like our water bill will be in the region of €750 per year! This is scandalous and deserves to be opposed. How can anyone justify such a high figure for just two, water conscious, people?

I would urge all those defending these charges to spend a little time working out an estimate of their usage, and therefore, cost. The figures are all available for you to do this easily. The average person will flush the toilet five times a day. That's 45 liters of water per person per day. For two people, that's more than your whole free allowance for the year... Just flushing the toilet!

A washing machine will use typically 60 liters per use, a dishwasher typically 45 liters. Include baths, showers, brushing teeth, washing, etc. I think many will be surprised at the bill they will end up facing.

Here in Stockholm we pay about 600 euro a year for 2 adults, 3 kids (its based on usage not numbers of people in household). Water quality is decent. 240 sounds really cheap but anytime I've been to Spain I've bought bottled water as the tap stuff seems dodgy.

tigger123

Gosub wrote: »

First I will state that I'm not against paying for water, just as I'm not against paying for electricity or phone service. I've paid for water when I lived abroad, so maybe I'm just used to the idea.

The real problem with the Irish version of paying for water is going to be the cost. I don't know how many people here, whether pro or con, have worked out an estimate of how much they will end up paying for their water. I have, and I'm shocked!

In Spain, my water bill worked out at around €240 per year. I certainly didn't try to keep my usage down. Gardens got watered, cars got washed, etc. True, the water quality was below the level where you would drink from the tap, but it was fine for showers, washing, brushing teeth and washing clothes.

There are just the two of us in the house and we conserve, recycle and harvest water. From my estimate, it looks like our water bill will be in the region of €750 per year! This is scandalous and deserves to be opposed. How can anyone justify such a high figure for just two, water conscious, people?

I would urge all those defending these charges to spend a little time working out an estimate of their usage, and therefore, cost. The figures are all available for you to do this easily. The average person will flush the toilet five times a day. That's 45 liters of water per person per day. For two people, that's more than your whole free allowance for the year... Just flushing the toilet!

A washing machine will use typically 60 liters per use, a dishwasher typically 45 liters. Include baths, showers, brushing teeth, washing, etc. I think many will be surprised at the bill they will end up facing.

Does that figure take into account your water allowances?

Gosub

tigger123 wrote: »

Does that figure take into account your water allowances?

Yes.

tigger123

Gosub wrote: »

Yes.

I'm living in an apartment with my partner, no meter, so it's calculated on an estimate. IW are saying €280 per year.

yservel

jaykay74 wrote: »

It seems that for those who think we already pay for water that they have a preference for the current system then ? Where water is paid for indirectly thorugh income tax/VAT etc rather than directly based on usage. I guess that suits people who use a lot of water. Seems illogical though.

A few points:

1) The water charges is ANOTHER tax. It is not replacing an existing tax. In a way we will be paying the water twice.

2) Income tax is a progressive tax which means people that can afford to pay more tax will pay more. On the other hand, people will lower revenue will be more affected by water charges.

3) Water is a vital resource. Unlike tobacco or alcohol. Access to it should not be restricted because you cant afford it. And the water allowance will clearly not be enough.

4) It is only a matter of time before IW gets privitised. As was Bord Gáis. For a cheap price. Under EU pressure.

5) IW will be able to raise water price as they see fit. Maybe not for the 2 first years. But it will definitely increase.

The conclusion is that these demos might very well fail to scrap water charges. I believe they will fail but I would be glad to be proven wrong. However, it will/may inpact on whether IW will get privitised or not, whether the water price will increase or not and so on.

Highflyer13

hiFidelity wrote: »

someone posted this on Facebook earlier. I have not used the person's correct name but people from there will know who this is referring to.

"H****** K***** was Sligo County Manager for 17 years and when he retired in 2013 he received a lump sum of 270,000 and a pension of 68,000 per year. His time as Sligo manager was controversial and he left behind a County debt of 80 million. "It's not the end of the world, nobody died," he said about the council's financial woes. At one stage he refused to attend council meetings in a dispute with an independent Councillor and spent more than €50,000 council money hiring HR consultant D***** N******n to monitor meetings. Asked to comment on reports that his own pay as Sligo Manager, at €136,000, was €30,000 more than that of the Spanish prime minister, Mr K***** said his salary was fixed by Government. “I am surprised that the Spanish prime minister earns so little.”
So after retiring from Sligo he has his pockets full, thanks to the taxpayer - that's YOU and ME, So, has Mr K***** taken up fishing? No, H***** has apparently found gainful employment with Irish Water.

Irish Water, home to retired Council managers, headed up by retired Dublin Manager J*** T****** (salary 200,000 Eur). But apparently Irish Water managers would have to get by on a measly 100,000. Hopefully though they might be able to survive once the expenses and free cars are factored in.
So you can see good people why it's going to take 20 years to fix all those rusty old water pipes!"

Both men mentioned in that article have been proven to be incompetent in their jobs and have history in screwing the taxpayer over. They spend taxpayer money like its coming from an endless stream and look where they ended up.

The attitude of Hubert Kearns especially stank to high heaven when leaving Sligo County Council.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Up and down the road, our neighbours has got water meters.

I was on the Irish water website looking at the process of installing meters.

1. About two weeks before the installation you will receive an information pack explaining the work and what to expect when we install your meter.

2. At least two days before the installation we will notify you of the date when the water meter will be fitted.

1 and 2 did not happen unless it was a flyer in the door. Did anyone else get the same?

I'm not dying to sign up. But my mother has been scared or bullied, what will happen if we don't pay up.

Can they put a meter in without telling us? All the neighbours has a meter, why leave us out? We do have overgrown weeds outside, but we searched and can't find a meter, but can they install a meter without telling us?

Phoebas

jaykay74 wrote: »

Here in Stockholm we pay about 600 euro a year for 2 adults, 3 kids (its based on usage not numbers of people in household). Water quality is decent. 240 sounds really cheap but anytime I've been to Spain I've bought bottled water as the tap stuff seems dodgy.

Spain has one of the lowest prices for water in the EU, with the EU itself providing a lot of the funding for the Spanish infrastructure. Prices will rise when that subsidy runs out.

It also has a system where if you have high usage, the price per m3 goes up above a certain level.

mojesius

Great video of yesterday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llnxmA3M4kc

Satriale

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Up and down the road, our neighbours has got water meters.

I was on the Irish water website looking at the process of installing meters.

1. About two weeks before the installation you will receive an information pack explaining the work and what to expect when we install your meter.

2. At least two days before the installation we will notify you of the date when the water meter will be fitted.

1 and 2 did not happen unless it was a flyer in the door. Did anyone else get the same?

I'm not dying to sign up. But my mother has been scared or bullied, what will happen if we don't pay up.

Can they put a meter in without telling us? All the neighbours has a meter, why leave us out? We do have overgrown weeds outside, but we searched and can't find a meter, but can they install a meter without telling us?

I think they can put in a meter without your permission.

Similar to your own story an aquaintance was bypassed for a meter a few months ago. Rural area, connected to mains, people both side of him were metered. (And he wouldnt have argued if they tried to put in the meter.)
Not sure if it had anything to do with it, but he hasnt paid the HHC or LPT, the neighbours had.

yipeeeee

All set for sinn fein to take over now.

Then the fun will really begin.

Phoebas

yipeeeee wrote: »

All set for sinn fein to take over now.

Then the fun will really begin.

It will - when people read the SF policy document that includes privatisation of water services.

yipeeeee

Phoebas wrote: »

It will - when people read the SF policy document that includes privatisation of water services.

Exactly.

No matter what its happening no matter who is in power.

gladrags

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There's a lot of people saying "at least 100k" any kind of official number yet?

Because although the 100k number may be right I'm highly skeptical until I see some proof.

There is no method for estimating the exact figure.

Satriale

gladrags wrote: »

There is no method for estimating the exact figure.

If the guards released the aerials we could have fairly good guesstimate. But 50k or 100k, it looks to me from the pictures that the message was loud and clear. Despite the naysayers here you can be sure the iphones are red this morning.
They will be loath to ignore that many people, for fear of a larger one the next time.

Phoebas

Does anyone know what exactly is planned for Nov 1st? Some kind of follow up protest or something?

gladrags

Phoebas wrote: »

Does anyone know what exactly is planned for Nov 1st? Some kind of follow up protest or something?

A nude protest,fig leaves are banned.

Highflyer13

Phoebas wrote: »

Does anyone know what exactly is planned for Nov 1st? Some kind of follow up protest or something?

A national day of protest in towns and villages across Ireland. Personally I think it would have been better to have another march in the capital in 2 weeks time and build on yesterdays numbers.

tigger123

Highflyer13 wrote: »

A national day of protest in towns and villages across Ireland. Personally I think it would have been better to have another march in the capital in 2 weeks time and build on yesterdays numbers.

People are better off hassling their local TD than marching around the place. If enough backbenchers feel their seats are in jeopardy it could push them to act. The march will solve nothing.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Satriale wrote: »

I think they can put in a meter without your permission.

Similar to your own story an aquaintance was bypassed for a meter a few months ago. Rural area, connected to mains, people both side of him were metered. (And he wouldnt have argued if they tried to put in the meter.)
Not sure if it had anything to do with it, but he hasnt paid the HHC or LPT, the neighbours had.

I know they can install meters without your permission. But without informing you?

Midnight Sundance

Same thing happened me, they sent it to old address instead of my actual address that I'll be paying for water. When asked they said their database. But I was like why couldn't you just send it to my house address which was also printed on the letter.
They managed to arse up my house address too so am waiting on them to get back to me.

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Sorry if this has already come up but...

I hadn't received any correspondence from IW so I rang them up to find out what the story was. It turned out that they had sent out a pack to me at an address I moved out almost exactly a year ago. When I asked where they got that address from they wouldn't tell me, because the person I was talking to couldn't find out from 'the system'.

Anyone know where they are getting their data from, also surely water charges are by the address/house hold not the individual. So the starting point should be the address then who lives there, someone else lives at my old address now, how come they couldn't find this out. How come my current address is a secret to them?

Phoebas

Highflyer13 wrote: »

A national day of protest in towns and villages across Ireland. Personally I think it would have been better to have another march in the capital in 2 weeks time and build on yesterdays numbers.

Pros and cons.
It'd be hard to replicate the same thing again (and again), but nationwide protests provide an opportunity for more people to get involved - and put pressure on local representatives.

Phoebas

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

I know they can install meters without your permission. But without informing you?

The metres are installed outside your property on the public side on public infrastructure.

They don't have to inform you at all, but they do as a courtesy (they do need to shut the water off for a few minutes when they link up the meter).

Highflyer13

tigger123 wrote: »

People are better off hassling their local TD than marching around the place. If enough backbenchers feel their seats are in jeopardy it could push them to act. The march will solve nothing.

It raises awareness, pushes people to act, will make the coalition think before they impose more stealth taxes and makes people confident to approach their local T.Ds with their concerns as there is now unified strength in numbers. Marching has many advantages. No doubt backbenchers are already feeling their seats are in trouble this morning.

Little CuChulainn

The water charges won't be scrapped by any government. They are here to stay. That's why the meter protests are so ineffective. What marches like yesterday can hope to achieve will be a change in how they are introduced and how IW is to be run. Just as an example, a phased introduction of water charges in line with tax deductions would be good way to dispel this notion that we already pay for water. Addressing the fear of privatisation and concerns about corrupt management would be another way to appease people. But unfortunately the problem with large marches is that there tends to be so many different messages. You can see them here. You had people calling for everything from violent revolt with Garda heads on pikes to people simply looking for help paying for the new charge.

The call for people not to pay will not be followed by TD's. The reason is because it will lead to judgements against them and credit issues, just like it will for everyone else if they do so, unless someone manages to get the water legislation struck down as unconstitutional in the courts. This will be a particular issue for business owners and home buyers who need good credit and just won't take the risk when it comes time to pay.

tigger123

Highflyer13 wrote: »

It raises awareness, pushes people to act, will make the coalition think before they impose more stealth taxes and makes people confident to approach their local T.Ds with their concerns as there is now unified strength in numbers. Marching has many advantages. No doubt backbenchers are already feeling their seats are in trouble this morning.

But they won't though. All a march does is allow people to vent. There's no political consequence to it. If the backbenchers can survive the day of the march they've successfully weathered the storm.

If constituent after constituent were to call to their office, or clinic or whatever and tell them they're never voting for them again, it would spook them much more.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Phoebas wrote: »

The metres are installed outside your property on the public side on public infrastructure.

They don't have to inform you at all, but they do as a courtesy (they do need to shut the water off for a few minutes when they link up the meter).

Its not what it said on its website. Information pack first, then a date informing you on the installation of the meter.

In Lonesome Dove

hiFidelity wrote: »

someone posted this on Facebook earlier. I have not used the person's correct name but people from there will know who this is referring to.

"H****** K***** was Sligo County Manager for 17 years and when he retired in 2013 he received a lump sum of 270,000 and a pension of 68,000 per year. His time as Sligo manager was controversial and he left behind a County debt of 80 million. "It's not the end of the world, nobody died," he said about the council's financial woes. At one stage he refused to attend council meetings in a dispute with an independent Councillor and spent more than €50,000 council money hiring HR consultant D***** N******n to monitor meetings. Asked to comment on reports that his own pay as Sligo Manager, at €136,000, was €30,000 more than that of the Spanish prime minister, Mr K***** said his salary was fixed by Government. “I am surprised that the Spanish prime minister earns so little.”
So after retiring from Sligo he has his pockets full, thanks to the taxpayer - that's YOU and ME, So, has Mr K***** taken up fishing? No, H***** has apparently found gainful employment with Irish Water.

Irish Water, home to retired Council managers, headed up by retired Dublin Manager J*** T****** (salary 200,000 Eur). But apparently Irish Water managers would have to get by on a measly 100,000. Hopefully though they might be able to survive once the expenses and free cars are factored in.
So you can see good people why it's going to take 20 years to fix all those rusty old water pipes!"

Fcuking hell. And a member of government came out during the week begrudging people a mobile phone to help enrich this man. IW is only for enriching Denis O Brien and a few more lads. The whole thing stinks from high heavens.

Where on Facebook can I read this? If you wish you can send me the details by pm. I want to have a read of this.