***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Iwasfrozen

Xenji wrote: »

What is disgusting about it, it is a socialist symbol going back nearly 100 years, it is meant that a free Ireland would be free to control its future, people obviously feel that they are no longer free in their own country anymore, it has been used by the labour movement for decades as well including the Labour party.

Macie Polite Ostrich wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but what do those flags stand for? I presume it's some Irish nationalist thing, not too sure though.

I ended up at the protest yesterday by accident, didn't even know it was on before I went up but I was around the area so I saw it all happening but wasn't marching. To be honest most of it seemed very civil, I've no issues with people protesting as long as they go about it in the right way.

The starry plough flag has at times been an official flag of the Provisional IRA, the Continuity IRA, the Official IRA, and the INLA.

The Sunburst flag was used by the Fianna and other militant groups.

I have no issue with people protesting either but I find the use of these flags distasteful. As most normal people would.

Little CuChulainn

Sweet Rose wrote: »

Oh please, during the boom I had a mediocre salary doing a highly qualified job. Today, I earn an even more mediocre salary doing the same highly qualified job, while also trying to pay all the endless changes and extra taxes. Trying to squeeze water out of a bonedry rag.

Even if you somehow managed to avoid the personal benefits of high salaries and lower taxes, which I very much doubt, you still benefited from the massive government spending on infrastructure and services.

dxhound2005

Xenji wrote: »

What is disgusting about it, it is a socialist symbol going back nearly 100 years, it is meant that a free Ireland would be free to control its future, people obviously feel that they are no longer free in their own country anymore, it has been used by the labour movement for decades as well including the Labour party.

Charging people who use use mains water is not an infringement of freedom. Every socialist as well as every capitalist government does that. None puts the burden only on to general taxation, every end user has to pay something as well.

Would you argue that it is an infringement of freedom, or a capitalist imposition, that users have to pay something for refuse collection, transport and electricity? Should those burdens not be borne in full by the general taxpayer as well?

It is a strange brand of socialism which models it's economic policy on the 1977 Fianna Fail plan.

mickydoomsux

Sweet Rose wrote: »

Oh please, during the boom I had a mediocre salary doing a highly qualified job. Today, I earn an even more mediocre salary doing the same highly qualified job, while also trying to pay all the endless changes and extra taxes. Trying to squeeze water out of a bonedry rag.

It's the government's job to get you promoted or get you a better job?

Xenji

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The starry plough flag has at times been an official flag of the Provisional IRA, the Continuity IRA, the Official IRA, and the INLA.

The Sunburst flag was used by the Fianna and other militant groups.

I have no issue with people protesting either but I find the use of these flags distasteful. As most normal people would.

Our president does not seem to have a problem with it and is happy that it is seeing a reemergence.

http://www.thejournal.ie/president-higgins-speaks-of-a-new-version-of-irishness-at-conservation-of-starry-plough-flag-891336-Apr2013/

dxhound2005

Sweet Rose wrote: »

Well the train, Luas, motorways, international airports never came to Donegal so please don't try to sell me that line! My motor tax is spent on filling in potholes with a tiny bit of tar every year, never retarring roads. One hospital to service a county of over 140,000 people. Get real!

Have you explored the possibility of getting disconnected from the mains water supply and getting a private supply?

Xenji

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Charging people who use use mains water is not an infringement of freedom. Every socialist as well as every capitalist government does that. None puts the burden only on to general taxation, every end user has to pay something as well.

Would you argue that it is an infringement of freedom, or a capitalist imposition, that users have to pay something for refuse collection, transport and electricity? Should those burdens not be borne in full by the general taxpayer as well?

It is a strange brand of socialism which models it's economic policy on the 1977 Fianna Fail plan.

I was just explaining its original origin and why some people might relate with it.

Sweet Rose

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Even if you somehow managed to avoid the personal benefits of high salaries and lower taxes, which I very much doubt, you still benefited from the massive government spending on infrastructure and services.

Well the train, Luas, motorways, international airports never came to Donegal so please don't try to sell me that line! My motor tax is spent on filling in potholes with a tiny bit of tar every year, never retarring roads. Also, one hospital to service a county of over 140,000 people. The population of the local area increasing and squeezing pupils into the same size schools. Get real!

eeepaulo

rte news discussing the march now

Iwasfrozen

Xenji wrote: »

Our president does not seem to have a problem with it and is happy that it is seeing a reemergence.

http://www.thejournal.ie/president-higgins-speaks-of-a-new-version-of-irishness-at-conservation-of-starry-plough-flag-891336-Apr2013/

You've got your flags mixed up. The original flag is this.

Xenji

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You've got your flags mixed up. The original flag is this.

Yes, which was remodeled in the 30's but kept basically the same ideology behind it.

Iwasfrozen

Xenji wrote: »

Yes, which was remodeled in the 30's but kept basically the same ideology.

The remodelled flag has been used by the Provisional IRA, the Continuity IRA, the Official IRA and the INLA.

It no longer represents peaceful socialism, it is a symbol of militant republicanism and no decent person would fly it.

Dyr

Macie Polite Ostrich wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but what do those flags stand for? I presume it's some Irish nationalist thing, not too sure though.

I ended up at the protest yesterday by accident, didn't even know it was on before I went up but I was around the area so I saw it all happening but wasn't marching. To be honest most of it seemed very civil, I've no issues with people protesting as long as they go about it in the right way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starry_Plough_(flag)

tbh if someone has a problem with that flag they probably have problems in general

20Cent

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The remodelled flag has been used by the Provisional IRA, the Continuity IRA, the Official IRA and the INLA.

It no longer represents peaceful socialism, it is a symbol of militant republicanism and no decent person would fly it.

No they haven't.

Iwasfrozen

Bambi wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starry_Plough_(flag)

tbh if someone has a problem with that flag they probably have problems in general

Yeah if a person has a problem with militant flags they must have problems in general... :rolleyes:

Pwindedd

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

The same thing here with me also. There's no meter lid outside my house but there's one across the road outside the neighbours and the lid is larger than the other lids up and down the road. Around the same time the meters the cold taps in the bathroom came to a dripple before stopping up altogether.

How's your water doing? Did you have any problems with your water?

We've not experienced any supply issues. We've always had quite low pressure though, just got used to it.

Curly Judge wrote: »

If I was you I'd move to have the situation regularised.
Your neighbor could end up paying for their own house and yours.
The way your supply was set up is not standard practice and could have arisen as a result of a bit of sharp practice on someones (I'm not saying your) part.
At the very least they were trying to avoid the connection fee back then.

Yeh I'm a bit worried about that. We're it my property I would remedy it, however one of the benefits of renting is that maintenance and repair is someone else's problem. The landlord is fully aware of the dual feed so I think I'll ask him to contact the neighbours and see what needs to be done.

Apparently the whole street is on dual feed - we had a look out in the street - one meter to every 2 houses.

OldRio

Bambi wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starry_Plough_(flag)

tbh if someone has a problem with that flag they probably have problems in general

Absolutely.

Iwasfrozen

Oh I forgot I'm on boards.ie, it's perfectly normal to fly militant flags at a peaceful demonstration...

I've largely ignored this whole debacle. Could someone please explain to me why people think they shouldn't have to pay for the water they use?

UCDVet

Deleted User wrote: »

I've largely ignored this whole debacle. Could someone please explain to me why people think they shouldn't have to pay for the water they use?

1.) The pricing isn't based on the water they used.

2.) There has been no reduction in taxes that, up until Oct. 1st, was used to pay for the water. Water was never free, but we used to pay via taxes. Now we're told we need to *keep* paying via taxes, but also, pay directly.

3.) Nobody wants to pay more while getting the same that they've been getting.

Vinnie L

" I support water charges and will pay the charges "

I fall into this category but that is quite a misleading one.

It should read I support fair water charges and the correct use of public resources and management.

I don't suppor the lieing shenanigans that goes on from all the Irish political parties

We were told for years that our general taxation was higher to pay for things like water charges, so . . .

(1) why are we effectively paying for water twice ?
(2) why were millions spent on cronie consultants and contracts, while public servants lie idle ?
(3) why should the Irish people and state not control and own Irish resources ?
(4) why are we paying one of the most expensive water charges in europe, in a country where water is so pleantiful ?

dxhound2005

UCDVet wrote: »

1.) The pricing isn't based on the water they used.

2.) There has been no reduction in taxes that, up until Oct. 1st, was used to pay for the water. Water was never free, but we used to pay via taxes. Now we're told we need to *keep* paying via taxes, but also, pay directly.

3.) Nobody wants to pay more while getting the same that they've been getting.

1.) Correct. The cost will still be subsidised from general taxation. Like train fares. The next time train fares go up don't expect a corresponding reduction in income tax.

2.) Partly correct. Borrowing is also being used to deliver "free" water to users. Because there is a shortfall between what is raised by taxation and what has to be spent on services, including water.

3.) Unless you can prove it you should't say that nobody or everybody wants X Y or Z. Some people may consider that as the end user of the service they should pay part of the cost of water directly, just as they do for the cost of a train ticket.

Dyr

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yeah if a person has a problem with militant flags they must have problems in general... :rolleyes:

It's a flag that's been knocking around in some guise since the foundation of the state and used by god knows how many left wing groups of all shades. If that twists your knickers then you have a bit of a problem, you'd be having a coniption every time you saw a tricolour at that rate

0byme75341jo28

Vinnie L wrote: »

(4) why are we paying one of the most expensive water charges in europe, in a country where water is so pleantiful ?

I doubt the amount of water is the problem. Making it safe to drink and paying for the upkeep of water-related infrastructure is where the majority of expense would be I'd imagine.

Iwasfrozen

Bambi wrote: »

It's a flag that's been knocking around in some guise since the foundation of the state and used by god knows how many left wing groups of all shades. If that twists your knickers then you have a bit of a problem, you'd be having a coniption every time you saw a tricolour at that rate

It's been used prominently by IRA groups since the beginning of the troubles. Peaceful protesters should aim to distance themselves from those scumbags but instead consciously choose to fly the same flag.

I see you haven't commented on the sunburst flag. Do you agree with it being flown?

Vinnie L

Macie Polite Ostrich wrote: »

I doubt the amount of water is the problem. Making it safe to drink and paying for the upkeep of water-related infrastructure is where the majority of expense would be I'd imagine.

That doesn't answer the question, why are we paying one of the most expensive charges in europe ?

tayto lover

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Wether you fill up the form or not your going to be paying for your water.
If you don't fill it up you will just be paying more then you needed to.

Any word on how they're going to collect it from non-payers if they don't return the forms?

Little CuChulainn

Vinnie L wrote: »

" I support water charges and will pay the charges "

I fall into this category but that is quite a misleading one.

It should read I support fair water charges and the correct use of public resources and management.

I don't suppor the lieing shenanigans that goes on from all the Irish political parties

We were told for years that our general taxation was higher to pay for things like water charges, so . . .

(1) why are we effectively paying for water twice ?
(2) why were millions spent on cronie consultants and contracts, while public servants lie idle ?
(3) why should the Irish people and state not control and own Irish resources ?
(4) why are we paying one of the most expensive water charges in europe, in a country where water is so pleantiful ?

(1) At this time the state is still partly funding IW as it is only in its infancy however once it is properly established none of the tax take should be going towards them so you won't be paying twice.

(2) Presumably it's down to specialisation and expertise. Or if you want, corruption and nepotism.

(3) They do.

(4) Because 44% of our water is lost through leaky pipes. This is what happens when you try and control national water provision at local levels and the reason a company like IW was set up.

tayto lover wrote: »

Any word on how they're going to collect it from non-payers if they don't return the forms?

Summons the owner of the house. Presumably using details freely available in the register of electors and property registers.

Streetwalker

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Wether you fill up the form or not your going to be paying for your water.
If you don't fill it up you will just be paying more then you needed to.

Negative.

My name is URL

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The starry plough flag has at times been an official flag of the Provisional IRA, the Continuity IRA, the Official IRA, and the INLA.

The Sunburst flag was used by the Fianna and other militant groups.

I have no issue with people protesting either but I find the use of these flags distasteful. As most normal people would.

Bull****. You're just pathetically using the flags as a means of showing your contempt for those who protested because you can find no other reason for doing so.

Sad and pathetic, and completely transparent.