***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Banjo String

I know it has been asked several times on this thread, and to the best of my knowledge it has yet to be answered.

To all in support of water charges, or those defending the govt.

Why did Phil Hogan purposely tell lies about his knowledge on the tens of millions spent on consultants etc, and based on that, why should tax payers believe anything else govt ministers or Irish water tell us?

They have shown they cannot and should not be trusted.

Repeatedly.

srsly78

Well duh, they are politicians. Meanwhile the rest of us still have to pay our taxes.

Banjo String

srsly78 wrote: »

Well duh, they are politicians. Meanwhile the rest of us still have to pay our taxes.

I dont disagree.

However, if water charges are a tax, why not let revenue collect it ala lpt/HHC?

srsly78

Because water is a utility and should be metered. It will be privatised eventually because we don't like state utility monopolies anymore.

Banjo String

srsly78 wrote: »

Because water is a utility and should be metered. It will be privatised eventually because we don't like state utility monopolies anymore.

What is it, a tax or a utility bill ?

srsly78

It's a utility. You can choose to live off-grid and not avail of it.

However our taxes go towards setting it all up in the first place. Nobody likes paying for this of course.

seamus

I'm not sure what the trustworthiness of the government has to do with the setting up of IW. It's pretty clear what the purpose of it is and why it's necessary. It was signed into law 7 years ago by the previous government.

It's not like this has been snuck in under the radar with no discussion.

Though I would be interested to hear the context under which he was asked the question. If you asked me if I knew how much I spent on Gas last year, I wouldn't be able to give you a precise figure even though I've seen the bills. So it doesn't seem insane that Hogan would say off-the-cuff that he didn't know the precise amount spent on consultants - it's not like he had the document sitting in front of him when he was asked the question.

Obviously "I don't recall" would be a better answer than, "I don't know". If he genuinely thought he hadn't seen that figure then that says plenty about his competence.

Barely There

EunanMac wrote: »

You complained earlier that services should not be funded through general taxation, so either they should, or they should not.

I didn't say anything of the sort.

EunanMac wrote: »

Also why if Irish water is to be funded from both water charges and general taxation, why, in a country where water is so plentiful and available, are we having to pay some of the highest water charges per litre in Europe ?

It rains a lot in Ireland, so water should be free -

God, I'm actually embarrassed for you.

geeksauce

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Farewell. We are dealing here with professional legal practitioners (at least in one case) as well as amateur lawyers. It was much the same for the Household Charge discussions but a lot of people who swore they would never pay (including some TD's) probably did pay in the end.

Fixed that for you, all the talk of mass protests over the HHC and the country will riot before anyone pays this, there will be mass disobedience and civil unrest blah blah blah, bunch of keyboard warriors. It was up to 60% compliance almost straight away and I would imagine is pretty close to 100% at this stage.

But of course the Water Charges are a completely different kettle of fish though, there will be mass protests etc etc etc

Laughable really

geeksauce

Here is a novel idea for all those people that don't want to pay for their water, don't pay for it it really is a quite simple concept how people have not grasped that is beyond me.

Barely There

It's the same keyboard warriors in this thread that were in the Household Charge/Property Tax threads swaering blind that they'd go to jail before paying.

I guess this time they really, really mean it though.;)

geeksauce

EunanMac wrote: »

Also why if Irish water is to be funded from both water charges and general taxation, why, in a country where water is so plentiful and available, are we having to pay some of the highest water charges per litre in Europe ?

Sure why don't you go buy a few buckets and water butts, leave them out in the garden for the winter catch all the free water that falls from the sky and use that instead of using the water that is supplied to your taps.

You wont have to provide IW with your PPSN - that's a win for you

You wont have to pay a charge for the water you are using - that's a win for you

You will have free water for life to wash yourself with and to drink whenever you want - that's a win for you

Would be even better if you could come up with a system that will pump the water from the buckets into your house that way you wont have to go outside to wash or to dip the glass or kettle to get a drink.

Maybe if you cut a hole in your roof and let the rain fall directly into your tank you could use that instead of having to traipse outside all the time - and yes that's a win for you

then you can really stick it to the man - another win for you

geeksauce

Barely There wrote: »

It's the same keyboard warriors in this thread that were in the Household Charge/Property Tax threads swaering blind that they'd go to jail before paying.

I guess this time they really, really mean it though.;)

Ah sure maybe they are all in jail and are posting from there, tis awful lax in our jails.

But yeah maybe you are right they really, really mean it this time, must have all been washing their hair at the time of the last protests.

Ogham

Banjo String wrote: »

Why did Phil Hogan purposely tell lies about his knowledge on the tens of millions spent on consultants etc, and based on that, why should tax payers believe anything else govt ministers or Irish water tell us?

.

Don't be taken in by the sensationalist headlines in the press.

Reading the story further you will find it says ...
"The Carlow-Kilkenny TD said he did not know how much money was to be spent on consultancy fees during the set-up of the new water utility company." "Hogan had signed off on an internal Department document which detailed the break-down of what was to spend on the external services three months before he was asked the question directly by reporters. "
" The document, signed on October 22, did not feature the word ‘consultancy’

He was being honest !

Just making a story out of nothing. Little else to do .

_Kaiser_

Banjo String wrote: »

However, if water charges are a tax, why not let revenue collect it ala lpt/HHC?

That's the plan though - hence the need for PPS numbers (and the fact that IW was quietly moved under Finance from Environment during the reshuffle a few weeks back)

Supplying IW with a PPS number has nothing to do with getting your "free" allowances (although that's the spin being used). As has already been pointed out, there are numerous other ways to verify this.

The PPS number is so they can deduct at source if you refuse to cough up when the bills arrive

_Kaiser_

Ogham wrote: »

Don't be taken in by the sensationalist headlines in the press.

Reading the story further you will find it says ...
"The Carlow-Kilkenny TD said he did not know how much money was to be spent on consultancy fees during the set-up of the new water utility company." "Hogan had signed off on an internal Department document which detailed the break-down of what was to spend on the external services three months before he was asked the question directly by reporters. "
" The document, signed on October 22, did not feature the word ‘consultancy’

He was being honest !

Just making a story out of nothing. Little else to do .

And that's attempting to hide behind wordplay..

Or do you think that "external services" is not the same thing as "consultancy"

Mrs Garth Brooks

Do any other country ask for their version of the pps number for water charges? I don't think so.

Fcking ridiculous.

Timberrrrrrrr

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Do any other country ask for their version of the pps number for water charges? I don't think so.

Fcking ridiculous.

So don't supply them with your PPS number then, Contrary to what people are thinking no one is forcing you to hand over these details.

Barely There

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The PPS number is so they can deduct at source if you refuse to cough up when the bills arrive

God. that'd be awful.

Imagine if people unknowingly handed this information over and then found that their ability to leech off the rest of society was severely restricted.

geeksauce

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The PPS number is so they can deduct at source if you refuse to cough up when the bills arrive

Eh no if you don't pay they will disconnect/restrict your water. That is how they will get people to cough up when the bills arrive.

Hootanany

Hold you to ransom like.

geeksauce

Hootanany wrote: »

Hold you to ransom like.

No

REXER

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Who are these plenty of other service providers you keep writing about? Do any of them use meters? Do any of them have to give an allowance rather than use the meter figure?

Your dishonest friends may claim for loads of people not living at their address but the cross checking will ensure that if those people get the allowance at that address they won't get it anywhere else.

Please don't confuse your own friends with everyone else's friends! You are making a huge judgement call there. :rolleyes:

baldbear

geeksauce wrote: »

Eh no if you don't pay they will disconnect/restrict your water. That is how they will get people to cough up when the bills arrive.

They will 100% not cut peoples water supply and I don't know if they are capable of restricting the supply.

They might say they are but it might not be true

Timberrrrrrrr

Hootanany wrote: »

Hold you to ransom like.

How are you being held to ransom|? Pay your bills or we cut you off? Every provider does this. Would ESB/GAS/broadband/ etc be holding you to ransom if they cut off your service for non payment of a bill?

geeksauce

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How are you being held to ransom|? Pay your bills or we cut you off? Every provider does this. Would ESB/GAS/broadband/ etc be holding you to ransom if they cut off your service for non payment of a bill?

Sure Supermarkets do the same, fill a trolley full of groceries and you are then held to ransom when you try to leave the supermarket and forced to pay for said groceries.

geeksauce

baldbear wrote: »

They will 100% not cut peoples water supply and I don't know if they are capable of restricting the supply.

They might say they are but it might not be true

They are capable of restricting supplies to commercial properties with domestic elements to them so I wouldn't think it will be a problem restricting them to domestic only properties as it is the exact same process.

Anyway the point stands don't pay your bill they will restrict your supply, that's how they will get people to cough up and pay no need to deduct anything directly from anyones wages or social welfare.

dxhound2005

baldbear wrote: »

They will 100% not cut peoples water supply and I don't know if they are capable of restricting the supply.

They might say they are but it might not be true

They are not allowed to cut off domestic supplies, that is correct. They can cut off commercial premises but that is a separate issue. They do say they will have the power to restrict supplies.

11. What happens if people do not pay their bills?
Irish Water will have measures in place to allow for ease of payment of Bills. In the case of failure to pay, Irish Water is empowered to reduce water pressure in order to restrict supply. Water disconnection due to non-payment of domestic water charges is prohibited. If a customer fails to pay a water charge, it shall be recoverable by Irish Water as a contract debt in any court of competent jurisdiction.

If you don't want to pay, don't pay and see what happens. We will probably have a repeat of the Household Charge debacle by CAHWT where the political campaign disappeared after leading people up the garden path. The ones that swallowed their propoganda (and there was plenty of it on AH) finished up having to pay double. None of the campaigners or keyboard warriors were around when time came to pay the bill.

The irony is these campaigners are mostly from the Socialist Workers Party who do not believe that people should be allowed to own private property. As a private property owner myself I wouldn't want a utility bill going unpaid as it would make my life unnecessarily complicated.

My input into these types of threads was only ever to point out what sort of people are leading these political campaigns and the futility of following their Dont Register Dont Pay advice when the legislation has already been enacted.

mad m

So what will happen if you don't fill out firm and return it? Or fill out form without PPS number and return it. Very confusing.

dxhound2005

mad m wrote: »

So what will happen if you don't fill out firm and return it? Or fill out form without PPS number and return it. Very confusing.

What is very confusing?