***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

SaveOurLyric

Macie Polite Ostrich wrote: »

What a horribly cynical way of looking at protests.

The protest will achieve nothing.

Thankfully, we live in a democracy where we elect a government to legislate on our behalf, and abserve democratic voting in a parliament. Not a country where policy, legislation, or its implementation is determined by the size of a crowd taking to the streets to try to exert their will.

So keeping a minority of the unelected entertained with their little enterprise is really just a passtime, or illusion, seperate from the functioning of a democracy. So no cynicism.

Little CuChulainn

tayto lover wrote: »

It's funny because it simply won't work. They will not even go the route of taking people to court for not paying because the outcry would have serious repercussions for them.
It's unworkable.

Worked for the M50 tolls, the household charge and council clamping. There's always a predicted outrage that never materialises.

DamagedTrax

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

The protest will achieve nothing.

Thankfully, we live in a democracy where we elect a government to legislate on our behalf, and abserve democratic voting in a parliament. Not a country where policy, legislation, or its implementation is determined by the size of a crowd taking to the streets to try to exert their will.

So keeping a minority of the unelected entertained with their little enterprise is really just a passtime, or illusion, seperate from the functioning of a democracy. So no cynicism.

what we live in is a far cry from a democracy. a whip system doesnt represent the people, only the power players in the party and since we dont vote for parties...

tayto lover

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Worked for the M50 tolls, the household charge and council clamping. There's always a predicted outrage that never materialises.

This is different. Not everyone uses the M50 or even have a car and the HHC was just 100 euro.
This will not succeed. They would have to build loads of Thornton Halls to house the numbers even if they were allowed to hold courts without the inevitable disruptions.
Unworkable.

Banjo String

mikom wrote: »

I loled.

Labour TD says water charges here to stay
Water charges say Labour TD's are not here to stay.

Whats the difference in Ebola and Labour?

2 letters, and we know Labour will be wiped out vy 2016.

mikom

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I expect costs will fall and this will likely lead to a drop in prices.

Tell that to a dead ass and he'd kick ya.

Satriale

Banjo String wrote: »

Whats the difference in Ebola and Labour?

2 letters, and we know Labour will be wiped out vy 2016.

I'd have said ones a virus the other a parasite.

DamagedTrax

Banjo String wrote: »

Whats the difference in Ebola and Labour?

one is one of the most disgusting vile things ever inflicted on a people.. the other is a deadly virus originating in africa.

Banjo String

Anyone any ideas on why the Gardai are not prepared to estimate the attendance yesterday?

Serious question.

Lemlin

Banjo String wrote: »

Anyone any ideas on why the Gardai are not prepared to estimate the attendance yesterday?

Serious question.

Because nobody gives a fook. The water charges are coming anyway.

DamagedTrax

Banjo String wrote: »

Anyone any ideas on why the Gardai are not prepared to estimate the attendance yesterday?

Serious question.

it gives credence to the movement if they admit the numbers. and lying to save one's pants is government policy.

google 'crowd counting'. its a recognised science and used (abused) by governments/police forces worldwide.

cajonlardo

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

And where do you get the notion that the fire brigade only caome out if you agree a price? That's preposterous. Even if someone else calls them you can still be liable to the charges.

Do you lot have trouble with basic comprehension or are you all common liars?

You are the third supporter of the Govt/ Water Charges to twist or misrepresent words I posted.

I NEVER said the Fire Service will ONLY come out if price is agreed.

Banjo String

Lemlin wrote: »

Because nobody gives a fook. The water charges are coming anyway.

It just made front page news on almost every newspaper this morning.

I reckon plenty of fooks have been given.

KERSPLAT!

cajonlardo wrote: »

Do you lot have trouble with basic comprehension or are you all common liars?

You are the third supporter of the Govt/ Water Charges to twist or misrepresent words I posted.

I NEVER said the Fire Service will ONLY come out if price is agreed.

MOD

There have been enough warnings at this stage, this is the last before cards come out. Everyone keep it civil please

gladrags

Does Another Protest Era Dawn?

With Fire In Our Belly Will We Proceed?

HIB

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Exactly, I'd say people, in general, did as much to contribute to the boom as they did to contribute to the collapse. Happy to ride the waves they didn't create but looking for heads to roll when they fall off.

What an absolute load of nonsense. How exactly is the average person supposed to have contributed to the economic collapse? By buying houses at the going market rate and borrowing to do so?
And what exactly is wrong with demanding accountability from the instiutions and individuals who were charged with safeguarding and regulating the banking sector.

Are you another one of those people who insists we all "partied" during the boom? Who partied? Where? Because I never saw it. I saw ordinary people buying ordinary houses for extraordinary sums of money. And the financial crisis is absolutely not their fault.

Grandpa Hassan

Banjo String wrote: »

It just made front page news on almost every newspaper this morning.

I reckon plenty of fooks have been given.

Water charges are coming for sure. As I think they should. Not a chance Ireland remains an outlier compared to the rest of Europe when it comes to water charges. The best that might happen, assuming that all the protesters have the energy to keep this on the front pages, will be a change in the structure of IW. If that comes about, fair enough. It will be because of public pressure.

But if people think that the concept of charging for water can be killed, they are kidding themselves

DamagedTrax

HIB wrote: »

What an absolute load of nonsense. How exactly is the average person supposed to have contributed to the economic collapse? By buying houses at the going market rate and borrowing to do so?
And what exactly is wrong with demanding accountability from the instiutions and individuals who were charged with safeguarding and regulating the banking sector.

Are you another one of those people who insists we all "partied" during the boom? Who partied? Where? Because I never saw it. I saw ordinary people buying ordinary houses for extraordinary sums of money. And the financial crisis is absolutely not their fault.

i find that those who try to blame the average person for the financial collapse are usually afraid of what the alternative means. sometimes its easier to point the finger at the vunerable, than those who will fight dirty to protect their wealth.

dxhound2005

HIB wrote: »

What an absolute load of nonsense. How exactly is the average person supposed to have contributed to the economic collapse? By buying houses at the going market rate and borrowing to do so?
And what exactly is wrong with demanding accountability from the instiutions and individuals who were charged with safeguarding and regulating the banking sector.

Are you another one of those people who insists we all "partied" during the boom? Who partied? Where? Because I never saw it. I saw ordinary people buying ordinary houses for extraordinary sums of money. And the financial crisis is absolutely not their fault.

546700 properties are in the hands of people who own more than one. Everyone may not have been as prudent as you. It doesn't include those held in Spain, Bulgaria etc.

http://www.revenue.ie/revsearch/search.jsp

Multiple Property Owners
There are around 174,900 individuals that are designated liable persons for two or more properties (this covers 546,700 properties). Properties owned by Local Authorities and approved housing bodies are excluded

Our little poll (in which I have not voted) is not getting much attention. Nearly 50% going to pay months before any bill is out. Much different from the early days of the HHC polls and not too encouraging for those who hope to escape by being one of the majority.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

546700 properties are in the hands of people who own more than one. Everyone may not have been as prudent as you. It doesn't include those held in Spain, Bulgaria etc.

http://www.revenue.ie/revsearch/search.jsp

Multiple Property Owners
There are around 174,900 individuals that are designated liable persons for two or more properties (this covers 546,700 properties). Properties owned by Local Authorities and approved housing bodies are excluded

Our little poll (in which I have not voted) is not getting much attention. Nearly 50% going to pay months before any bill is out. Much different from the early days of the HHC polls and not too encouraging for those who hope to escape by being one of the majority.

Add it to the Bye Election results, opinion pool and marches and it adds up very worryingly for the Govt.

SaveOurLyric

HIB wrote: »

What an absolute load of nonsense. How exactly is the average person supposed to have contributed to the economic collapse? By buying houses at the going market rate and borrowing to do so?

Exactly. He could neither afford to buy the house, nor to borrow the money to do so.

HIB wrote: »

And what exactly is wrong with demanding accountability from the instiutions and individuals who were charged with safeguarding and regulating the banking sector.

They did poorly. Employed or elected by the people. So no surprise that their performance was as bad as the people in general.

HIB wrote: »

Are you another one of those people who insists we all "partied" during the boom? Who partied? Where? Because I never saw it. I saw ordinary people buying ordinary houses for extraordinary sums of money.

Yes, everyone all 'partied'. You didnt see it because you adapted too it all too willingingly and no longer saw it as partying. Just a standard of living that you were entitled to. They unions and public service employees are fighting tooth and nail to return to 1990 pay levels shows how they have become too used to partying and living beyond their means.

HIB wrote: »

And the financial crisis is absolutely not their fault.

Still have to pay the bill though !


Paying water charges is part of that unpleasant reality after the party - you couldnt afford not to pay them for the last 20 years. Now you are paying that debt, and the true cost from here on.

0byme75341jo28

dxhound2005 wrote: »

546700 properties are in the hands of people who own more than one. Everyone may not have been as prudent as you. It doesn't include those held in Spain, Bulgaria etc.

http://www.revenue.ie/revsearch/search.jsp

Multiple Property Owners
There are around 174,900 individuals that are designated liable persons for two or more properties (this covers 546,700 properties). Properties owned by Local Authorities and approved housing bodies are excluded

Our little poll (in which I have not voted) is not getting much attention. Nearly 50% going to pay months before any bill is out. Much different from the early days of the HHC polls and not too encouraging for those who hope to escape by being one of the majority.

Does the 174900 include a husband and wife who would both be liable for the two or more houses, or would only one of them be liable? I'm not good at this stuff! :pac:

dxhound2005

Macie Polite Ostrich wrote: »

Does the 174900 include a husband and wife who would both be liable for the two or more houses, or would only one of them be liable? I'm not good at this stuff! :pac:

Search for "Property Tax Statistics" on the Revenue link I gave. It probably won't answer your question though. I don't know the answer.

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

[/B]

Add it to the Bye Election results, opinion pool and marches and it adds up very worryingly for the Govt.

I hold them in higher regard for having made themselves really unpopular bringing Ireland into the normal mode for taxes. Much better than the populist Bertie, Charlie McCreevey approach which kept people very happy for ten years until the facade was exposed.

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

546700 properties are in the hands of people who own more than one. Everyone may not have been as prudent as you. It doesn't include those held in Spain, Bulgaria etc.

http://www.revenue.ie/revsearch/search.jsp

Multiple Property Owners
There are around 174,900 individuals that are designated liable persons for two or more properties (this covers 546,700 properties). Properties owned by Local Authorities and approved housing bodies are excluded

Our little poll (in which I have not voted) is not getting much attention. Nearly 50% going to pay months before any bill is out. Much different from the early days of the HHC polls and not too encouraging for those who hope to escape by being one of the majority.

Frank Fahy, former Fianna Fáil politician............. one of the little people............

(l) 2 apts Castlerea, Co. Roscommon: letting; (2) Apartments 8A, 16 Eglington Court, Galway: letting; (3) House at Kilbeacanty, Gort, letting; (4) Apartment at Dun Aengus, New Docks, Galway: letting; (5) House at Dun na Coirbe, Galway: letting; (6) House at Rinawade Close, Leixlip: letting; (7) Shareholding in apartment at Gort na Coirbe, Galway; (8) Shareholding in extended family owned properties at Moydrum, Athlone: letting; (9) Shareholding in 4 Apts and Shop, Lower Gerald Street, Limerick: letting; (10) Shareholding in retail unit, two offices and warehouse at Crowe Street, Gort; (11) House at Jumeirah Estates, Dubai; (12) Dwelling house, The Grove, Crowe St, Gort, Co. Galway; (13) Shareholding in apartment at Tappen St, Boston, Massachusetts: shareholding in Fahey Higgins L.L.C Boston; (14) Five apartments owned in partnership at Rue Paul-Emile, Janson 1000, ten apartments owned in partnership at Rue du Sceptre 1015, Brussels; (15) Apartment at Cathedral Place, Limerick: letting; (16) House at Villefranche, France; (17) Deposit paid and contract signed on property at Porto De Mos, deposit paid on property at Alcantarillha, Portugal; (18) Apartment at Irishtown, Dublin.

DamagedTrax

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I hold them in higher regard for having made themselves really unpopular bringing Ireland into the normal mode for taxes.

i have no regard for them as they pandered to the rich while crippling the poor.

a fair system, that guaranteed those better off be hit as much, may have got them support because it doesnt matter what way you swing it, taking 200pm extra from someone on 60,000 is a very different thing than taking 20 extra off a low income earner or social recipient.

dxhound2005

mikom wrote: »

Frank Fahy, former Fianna Fáil politician............. one of the little people............

(l) 2 apts Castlerea, Co. Roscommon: letting; (2) Apartments 8A, 16 Eglington Court, Galway: letting; (3) House at Kilbeacanty, Gort, letting; (4) Apartment at Dun Aengus, New Docks, Galway: letting; (5) House at Dun na Coirbe, Galway: letting; (6) House at Rinawade Close, Leixlip: letting; (7) Shareholding in apartment at Gort na Coirbe, Galway; (8) Shareholding in extended family owned properties at Moydrum, Athlone: letting; (9) Shareholding in 4 Apts and Shop, Lower Gerald Street, Limerick: letting; (10) Shareholding in retail unit, two offices and warehouse at Crowe Street, Gort; (11) House at Jumeirah Estates, Dubai; (12) Dwelling house, The Grove, Crowe St, Gort, Co. Galway; (13) Shareholding in apartment at Tappen St, Boston, Massachusetts: shareholding in Fahey Higgins L.L.C Boston; (14) Five apartments owned in partnership at Rue Paul-Emile, Janson 1000, ten apartments owned in partnership at Rue du Sceptre 1015, Brussels; (15) Apartment at Cathedral Place, Limerick: letting; (16) House at Villefranche, France; (17) Deposit paid and contract signed on property at Porto De Mos, deposit paid on property at Alcantarillha, Portugal; (18) Apartment at Irishtown, Dublin.

Percentage of multiple owners with two properties 68%. With 3 to 5 28%. They are the "little people".

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I hold them in higher regard for having made themselves really unpopular bringing Ireland into the normal mode for taxes. Much better than the populist Bertie, Charlie McCreevey approach which kept people very happy for ten years until the facade was exposed.

That's you. Many of us do not agree.
How do you hold them over cronyism incidentally?

eeepaulo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

546700 properties are in the hands of people who own more than one. Everyone may not have been as prudent as you. It doesn't include those held in Spain, Bulgaria etc.

http://www.revenue.ie/revsearch/search.jsp

Multiple Property Owners
There are around 174,900 individuals that are designated liable persons for two or more properties (this covers 546,700 properties). Properties owned by Local Authorities and approved housing bodies are excluded

Our little poll (in which I have not voted) is not getting much attention. Nearly 50% going to pay months before any bill is out. Much different from the early days of the HHC polls and not too encouraging for those who hope to escape by being one of the majority.

546 700 of the about 2 000 000 houses in ireland = 1/4 (ish) of the houses

Are owned by 174900 / 4 500 000 = 4% (ish) of the population

Little CuChulainn

tayto lover wrote: »

This is different. Not everyone uses the M50 or even have a car and the HHC was just 100 euro.
This will not succeed. They would have to build loads of Thornton Halls to house the numbers even if they were allowed to hold courts without the inevitable disruptions.
Unworkable.

Same baseless dismissals made of all previous charges and taxes.

cajonlardo wrote: »

Do you lot have trouble with basic comprehension or are you all common liars?

You are the third supporter of the Govt/ Water Charges to twist or misrepresent words I posted.

I NEVER said the Fire Service will ONLY come out if price is agreed.

Sure back track if you want, it only further degrades your original argument.

HIB wrote: »

What an absolute load of nonsense. How exactly is the average person supposed to have contributed to the economic collapse? By buying houses at the going market rate and borrowing to do so?
And what exactly is wrong with demanding accountability from the instiutions and individuals who were charged with safeguarding and regulating the banking sector.

Are you another one of those people who insists we all "partied" during the boom? Who partied? Where? Because I never saw it. I saw ordinary people buying ordinary houses for extraordinary sums of money. And the financial crisis is absolutely not their fault.

You quoted my post but it seems like you completely misunderstood my point, or didn't read it at all. I said people caused the boom as much as they caused the collapse. So if you didn't contribute much to the collapse then you are unlikely to have contributed much to create the boom in the first place. In the grand scheme of things, we are all better off than we were before the celtic tiger took off and we have the same people to thank for starting it as ending it.