***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

mikom

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

In the grand scheme of things, we are all better off than we were before the celtic tiger took off

Except the folks that committed suicide due to mounting bills..........

dxhound2005

eeepaulo wrote: »

546 700 of the about 2 000 000 houses in ireland = 1/4 (ish) of the houses

Are owned by 174900 / 4 500 000 = 4% (ish) of the population

How many children own houses?

DamagedTrax

mikom wrote: »

Except the folks that committed suicide due to mounting bills..........

and the friends that have lost their homes due to the people who started the boom, ending it, causing mass unemployment and a dirty property/wealth grab.

its no surprise that AIB and BOI are basically the only two banks left in the country (ulster are on their way out). they pulled the same stunt and got away with it on wall street.

DamagedTrax

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How many children own houses?

how many children will the water charges tie into future taxation for scams pulled before they were born.

you cant discount one without the other.

dxhound2005

DamagedTrax wrote: »

and the friends that have lost their homes due to the people who started the boom, ending it, causing mass unemployment and a dirty property/wealth grab.

its no surprise that AIB and BOI are basically the only two banks left in the country (ulster are on their way out). they pulled the same stunt and got away with it on wall street.

Far safer to be such a person here than in most other countries. In the North for instance re-possession of properties is about 8 times higher than here.

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/northern-ireland-home-repossession-rate-is-10-times-worse-than-in-the-republic/

Little CuChulainn

mikom wrote: »

Except the folks that committed suicide due to mounting bills..........

Suicide isn't the result of bills. That's a pathetic simplification of a complex issue. At best you could argue that their financial situation contributed to their decision to commit suicide. And who's to say more people wouldn't have experienced those same issues if the boom never happened? I would think it would be more likely that people would have suffered from financial difficulty without the celtic tiger.

In any case, it doesn't change the fact that, in general, we are better off now than before the boom.

mickydoomsux

mikom wrote: »

Except the folks that committed suicide due to mounting bills..........

More emotive nonsense.

Provide non-ancedotal evidence that this is actually a thing.

gladrags

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Suicide isn't the result of bills. That's a pathetic simplification of a complex issue. At best you could argue that their financial situation contributed to their decision to commit suicide. And who's to say more people wouldn't have experienced those same issues if the boom never happened? I would think it would be more likely that people would have suffered from financial difficulty without the celtic tiger.

In any case, it doesn't change the fact that, in general, we are better off now than before the boom.

What boom ?

eeepaulo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How many children own houses?

Fair enough

0–14 years: 21.3% (male: 501,189; female: 478,401) (2011)15–64 years: 67.0% (male: 1,558,196; female: 1,545,073) (2011)65 years and over: 11.7% (male: 243,314; female: 292,079) (2011)So lets call it 3 500 000

Its not 2 000 000 houses, its 1 600 000

The numbers still suggest that it was not the many, it is mid single figures

mikom

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Suicide isn't the result of bills. That's a pathetic simplification of a complex issue. At best you could argue that their financial situation contributed to their decision to commit suicide. And who's to say more people wouldn't have experienced those same issues if the boom never happened? I would think it would be more likely that people would have suffered from financial difficulty without the celtic tiger.

In any case, it doesn't change the fact that, in general, we are better off now than before the boom.

16% better off........

The suicide rate in Ireland jumped 16 percent between 2007 and 2009 as the economic crisis hit.



The New York Times reports that suicides that have increased in Europe, especially in countries such as Ireland, Greece, and Italy, where economic struggles have become a fact of life over the past few years.
“Suicide by economic crisis” is the phrase being attached to the recent rise in European suicides. Small-business owners and entrepreneurs are among those in the increased rates of suicide.


The New York Times reports that, “In Ireland, the phenomenon has been linked to what some therapists call Celtic Tiger depression, the period after 2008 characterized by an influx of middle-aged male patients who complained about sleeplessness and a lack of appetite in the aftermath of that nation’s destructive boom-and-bust real estate market.”
Ella Arensman, director of research at the National Suicide Research Foundation said that a study in Cork reached out to people who had lost relatives to suicide. The study found that “The victims were predominantly men, with an average age of 36. Almost 40 percent were unemployed, and 32 percent worked in construction as plumbers, electricians and plasterers.”


She added that generally, those who took their own lives “suffered from a constellation of problems: financial struggles, unemployment, broken relationships and loneliness.”


http://www.irishcentral.com/news/ireland-sees-a-major-increase-in-suicides-by-economic-crisis-147555955-237441711.html

Lord Trollington

mickydoomsux wrote: »

More emotive nonsense.

Provide non-ancedotal evidence that this is actually a thing.

Above will fairly shut you up.

dxhound2005

eeepaulo wrote: »

Fair enough

0–14 years: 21.3% (male: 501,189; female: 478,401) (2011)15–64 years: 67.0% (male: 1,558,196; female: 1,545,073) (2011)65 years and over: 11.7% (male: 243,314; female: 292,079) (2011)So lets call it 3 500 000

Its not 2 000 000 houses, its 1 600 000

The numbers still suggest that it was not the many, it is mid single figures

They will still form a nice tax base for the next government if the NPPR comes back. SF will do away with property tax on the family home but reintroduce the NPPR, doubled to €400 for any non principle residence. Cutting their own throats a bit with the number of their members who have holiday homes but they have to raise revenue somehow when they eschew the existing streams.

Banjo String

How many SF members have holiday homes?

eeepaulo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They will still form a nice tax base for the next government if the NPPR comes back. SF will do away with property tax on the family home but reintroduce the NPPR, doubled to €400 for any non principle residence. Cutting their own throats a bit with the number of their members who have holiday homes but they have to raise revenue somehow when they eschew the existing streams.

I could not care less what sf want to do.

I would like the current crowd to be accountable more often than once every election, i would like to think that if (only if) things go wrong with this in 10 years time we arent going to have people with huge pensions sailing off into the sunset, refusing to turn up to inquiries, taking notes? well usually but no not this time, repeating i cant remember multiple times.

Instead we have given irish water a voluntary agreement to co operate with the regulator, and it isnt even charging yet.

But just as a start, i would like to hear enda acknowledge there was a march at the weekend.

dxhound2005

eeepaulo wrote: »

I could not care less what sf want to do.

I would like the current crowd to be accountable more often than once every election, i would like to think that if (only if) things go wrong with this in 10 years time we arent going to have people with huge pensions sailing off into the sunset, refusing to turn up to inquiries, taking notes? well usually but no not this time, repeating i cant remember multiple times.

Instead we have given irish water a voluntary agreement to co operate with the regulator, and it isnt even charging yet.

But just as a start, i would like to hear enda acknowledge there was a march at the weekend.

I'd like to know if I will ever get a pay rise again. Having been on a pay freeze for over 6 years and losing €50 from my weekly take home 4 years ago. And I'd like a nice ham sandwich.

Little CuChulainn

mikom wrote: »

16% better off........

2007 was not before the boom. The boom started in 1995, slowed in 2001 and 2002 and resumed in 2003 to 2007. The suicide rate in 2003 was 12.5 per 100,000 and the suicide rate in 2012 was 11.1 per 100,000. So if you insist on using suicides as a measure of prosperity then we are still better off now than before the boom. I would consider it to be a poor indicator of prosperity anyway.

http://nsrf.ie/statistics/suicide/

eeepaulo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'd like to know if I will ever get a pay rise again. Having been on a pay freeze for over 6 years and losing €50 from my weekly take home 4 years ago. And I'd like a nice ham sandwich.

I have a bit of ham and bread, cant do anything about a rise though

eeepaulo

eeepaulo wrote: »

I have a bit of ham and bread, cant do anything about a rise though

Any mustard?

eeepaulo

Deleted User wrote: »

Any mustard?

irish and french

gladrags

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

2007 was not before the boom. The boom started in 1995, slowed in 2001 and 2002 and resumed in 2003 to 2007. The suicide rate in 2003 was 12.5 per 100,000 and the suicide rate in 2012 was 11.1 per 100,000. So if you insist on using suicides as a measure of prosperity then we are still better off now than before the boom. I would consider it to be a poor indicator of prosperity anyway.

http://nsrf.ie/statistics/suicide/

Ireland's Celtic Tiger economy.

AuthorsCorcoran P, et al. Show all Journal
Eur J Public Health. 2011 Apr;21(2):209-14. doi: 10.1093/eurpub/ckp236. Epub 2010 Jan 27.

Affiliation
Abstract
BACKGROUND:  Studies have identified employment as a protective factor against suicide. We examined employment status and risk of suicide in Ireland during the 11-year period 1996-2006, a period of economic boom commonly known as the Celtic Tiger. 

METHODS:  Data relating to the 5270 suicides and 789 deaths of undetermined intent registered as occurring in Ireland in 1996-2006 and relevant population data were obtained from the Irish Central Statistics Office and analysed using Poisson regression. 

RESULTS:  Unemployment fell from 12% in 1996 to 4% in 2000, a level at which it remained until 2006. Male and female rates of suicide and undetermined death were stable during 1996-2006 though suicide among unemployed men increased. Relative to employment, unemployment was associated with a 2-3-fold increased risk of male suicide and undetermined death but generally a 4-6-fold increased risk in women. Unemployment was associated with greater increased risk of suicide and undetermined death when its level was low (2001-06) than in the period of decreasing unemployment (1996-2000). Unemployment was a stronger risk factor in men aged 35-54 years and with increasing age in women. Retired persons aged >55 years had a similar risk to their employed counterparts. Being a homemaker was associated with increased risk in women aged >35 years. 

CONCLUSION:  The current Irish context of rapidly increasing unemployment suggests that rates may rise again as in previous recessions. Appropriate social policy responses are required to mitigate the potential impact of unemployment on suicides.

PMID 20110275 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Free full text: HighWire

What boom?

Little CuChulainn

gladrags wrote: »

Ireland's Celtic Tiger economy.

AuthorsCorcoran P, et al. Show all Journal
Eur J Public Health. 2011 Apr;21(2):209-14. doi: 10.1093/eurpub/ckp236. Epub 2010 Jan 27.

Affiliation
Abstract
BACKGROUND:  Studies have identified employment as a protective factor against suicide. We examined employment status and risk of suicide in Ireland during the 11-year period 1996-2006, a period of economic boom commonly known as the Celtic Tiger. 

METHODS:  Data relating to the 5270 suicides and 789 deaths of undetermined intent registered as occurring in Ireland in 1996-2006 and relevant population data were obtained from the Irish Central Statistics Office and analysed using Poisson regression. 

RESULTS:  Unemployment fell from 12% in 1996 to 4% in 2000, a level at which it remained until 2006. Male and female rates of suicide and undetermined death were stable during 1996-2006 though suicide among unemployed men increased. Relative to employment, unemployment was associated with a 2-3-fold increased risk of male suicide and undetermined death but generally a 4-6-fold increased risk in women. Unemployment was associated with greater increased risk of suicide and undetermined death when its level was low (2001-06) than in the period of decreasing unemployment (1996-2000). Unemployment was a stronger risk factor in men aged 35-54 years and with increasing age in women. Retired persons aged >55 years had a similar risk to their employed counterparts. Being a homemaker was associated with increased risk in women aged >35 years. 

CONCLUSION:  The current Irish context of rapidly increasing unemployment suggests that rates may rise again as in previous recessions. Appropriate social policy responses are required to mitigate the potential impact of unemployment on suicides.

PMID 20110275 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Free full text: HighWire

What boom?

The economic boom. You've still not provided anything to contradict that we are in a better position now, at the end of the recession than we were before the boom began.

tayto lover

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The economic boom. You've still not provided anything to contradict that we are in a better position now, at the end of the recession than we were before the boom began.

I'll send you my wage check stubs.

Little CuChulainn

tayto lover wrote: »

I'll send you my wage check stubs.

Make sure to account for inflation.

Danonino.

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

snip...

Yes, everyone all 'partied'. You didnt see it because you adapted too it all too willingingly and no longer saw it as partying. Just a standard of living that you were entitled to. They unions and public service employees are fighting tooth and nail to return to 1990 pay levels shows how they have become too used to partying and living beyond their means.

Still have to pay the bill though !


Paying water charges is part of that unpleasant reality after the party - you couldnt afford not to pay them for the last 20 years. Now you are paying that debt, and the true cost from here on.

This made me laugh. I know many who didn't 'party' during the boom years, heck the minimum wage has gone practically unchanged since its introduction. Saying everyone should pay for others recklessness shows little knowledge of what the word everyone means. By your reasoning I should have a 3 bed detach house, two holiday homes and a BMW in the driveway.

Sorry for going off topic, but I read the above and face palmed.

Irish Steve

I've not seen this asked anywhere yet, so here goes.

What's the position going to be with IW if the water they are supplying does not meet the EU standard for water?

We had to put a water softener in to process the water in order to keep things like the hot water heating system working, there's so much lime scale in the water, there's scale in the cold water storage tanks, and the hot water system used to clog up completely every 6 months, requiring expensive work to descale it.

The softener has to regenerate regularly, which means using more water. But, the water we get doesn't meet EU standards on hardness, so are IW going to give an extra allowance to areas that are not getting "acceptable" water?

It's drinkable, but that's about the only good thing to be said about it.

Chairman Meow

I still havent actually recieved the water pack thing yet. Im in two minds about wether i should actually contact them or not, i mean realistically its not my job to chase them.

Cantona's Collars

Irish Steve wrote: »

I've not seen this asked anywhere yet, so here goes.

What's the position going to be with IW if the water they are supplying does not meet the EU standard for water?

We had to put a water softener in to process the water in order to keep things like the hot water heating system working, there's so much lime scale in the water, there's scale in the cold water storage tanks, and the hot water system used to clog up completely every 6 months, requiring expensive work to descale it.

The softener has to regenerate regularly, which means using more water. But, the water we get doesn't meet EU standards on hardness, so are IW going to give an extra allowance to areas that are not getting "acceptable" water?

It's drinkable, but that's about the only good thing to be said about it.

A large part of South Wexford has the same problem.Irish Water said it's not their responsibility and reading between the lines they are only interested in the pipe from the meter to the house.It has been reported time after time in the local press down here.There's not much online as both papers have pretty abysmal websites and use paywalls.
For all the promises,IW really just seem to be interested in collecting money.Apparently decent water treatment is beyond their remit despite them being the company that's supplying and charging for it.

Wombatman

For those cynics asking have they reduced the water charges yet as a result of the demo on Saturday........ the answer is YES. Well done guys.

Water charges will be further reduced for vulnerable groups and low earners in steps to be announced in the budget.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/water-tax-cuts-in-pipeline-for-low-earners-291033.html

Banjo String

Wombatman wrote: »

For those cynics asking have they reduced the water charges yet as a result of the demo on Saturday........ the answer is YES. Well done guys.



http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/water-tax-cuts-in-pipeline-for-low-earners-291033.html

Not good enough.

Divide and conquer at work again. The middle earner will once again pick up the slack.

Valetta

Wombatman wrote: »

For those cynics asking have they reduced the water charges yet as a result of the demo on Saturday........ the answer is YES. Well done guys.



http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/water-tax-cuts-in-pipeline-for-low-earners-291033.html

Whilst very welcome, I doubt very much if it is as a result of the demonstration.