***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

smash

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

That's the problem too. People saying FG and Lab out... so who do we put in? FF, SF, ...?

The next GE will be a mess. It'll be a mix of FG, FF, SF and independents. Trying to form a government will be a total mind fcuk!

gladrags

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Was it a co incidence that the protest was the same day as the count in the by election? The protests are just a canvessing ploy by AAA and the Socialists for the General Election.

I suppose you would have had the media on to it,if it was.

I doubt it

Murphy deserved the seat.

Proof?

gladrags

gladrags wrote: »

I suppose you would have had the media on to it,if it was.
I doubt it
Murphy deserved the seat.
Proof?

"The march was organised by the Anti Austerity Alliance (AAA) whose candidate, Socialist MEP Paul Murphy, took a seat in yesterday's Dublin South-West by-election, which was described as "a referendum on water charges" by Labour Party TD Eamonn Maloney.
The Anti Austerity Alliance's Galway spokesperson, Sean Byrne, later claimed that up to 100,000 people took part in the march."
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/water-charges-protest-draws-massive-crowd-to-the-streets-30656878.html

end of the road

Rightwing wrote: »

I would much prefer that than some public quango.

no you wouldn't. once a greedy paracitic private company gets their hands on the peoples water prices will triple every year, the proffits will be taken back to the companies home country (as it will most likely be a foreign company) and we'l get nothing in return. the pipes won't be fixed and the quality won't improve. the evil of privatizing public services must be stopped by whatever means necessary

Highflyer13

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

That's the problem too. People saying FG and Lab out... so who do we put in? FF, SF, ...?

The next election is a major problem. None of the parties have earned my vote. A new clean cut centre right party is badly needed. I am surprised one hasn't emerged.

end of the road

RobertKK wrote: »

Oh please, not everyone is on public water or public sewage system.
Look at all the septic tank around the country - people had to pay a charge for them recently.

Yes I believe my relations and friends who live in towns and cities should pay for their water, they don't know how good they have been having it. No need to conserve water because a well can run dry in lengthy dry spells which we do get, the public water supply rarely runs dry apart from when people are stupid like back in December 2010 when they left taps running to stop their pipes from freezing.
Again no incentive to conserve water.

Tell me what incentives have there been to conserve water?
The only way to make people think about water is to make them pay if they are too liberal with their use of it.

I am also sick of the far left saying the rich must pay for this that and the other. Do people like Clare Daly and Paul Murphy think rich people would be stupid enough to hang around if we were to basically rob them for being successful, these muppets would ruin the country.

we don't need water charges to "make people think about water" if they don't all ready they won't now. people only use what they need, the leaving on of taps is the only abuse of water but it was necessary to keep the pipes from freezing as there is no and never will be a cost effective way of fixing them. the water charges aren't about water conservation and thats the end of it so stop the deluded tripe. it will be sold off eventually and the new paracite owners will triple the prices every year and nothing will change apart from money made being stolen from the people to fund private shareholders

end of the road

MadYaker wrote: »

Why are people even talking about privatisation when there is no evidence that it's actually going to happen to Irish Water. I would favour privatisation if there was competition in the market between different suppliers, but not if IW as a private company have a monopoly.

no such thing as competition when it comes to utilities. just look at britain. where there is supposibly "competition" its just a bunch of paracitic cartels

Phoebas

Highflyer13 wrote: »

The next election is a major problem. None of the parties have earned my vote. A new clean cut centre right party is badly needed. I am surprised one hasn't emerged.

Reform alliance .....

end of the road

homerjay2005 wrote: »

and likewise we pay for the social welfare bill of 1000's whove never worked a day in their life amongest. social welfare is our biggest drain on resources and is the most population.


we are not borrowing money to pay off bankers or increase water quality, we are borrowing it to give it back to the social welfare system, which is one of the most generous in the world.

every country charges for water, but very few hand out almost 50% of their take ins, on welfare.

stop making up things. its not 50 %. more like 10 to 20

Larbre34

Phoebas wrote: »

Reform alliance .....

Clean cut? lol

dxhound2005

My trade union asked it's membership to go on the march, I didn't go. Even if I thought that our income tax and VAT should be the only source of revenue for normal property tax and service charges which exist everywhere, I wouldn't want anything to do with the march. Among it organisers are the people sending out the thugs to intimidate ordinary workers. In Dundalk the ringleaders are paramilitaries.

My union and all the unions stood by in 2008 when Towards 2016 was abandoned. They stood by when the USC and pension contributions were introduced in 2010 relieving me of €50 a week in my take home pay. I have lost the guts of €14,000 nett from what I would have got. All under Fianna Fail initiatives. Now they are standing by saying they might ask for a pay rise when fiscal conditions improve. I might never see a pay rise again in my working life. But they want me to go marching in a vain attempt to reverse the law and save me maybe €100 a year.

The country has been tied up for years with people representing themselves as friends of workers, exhorting mass illegality. Bin charges and the previous property tax and water charges in the 1990's and more recently the new property tax and the new water charge. All turned into a circus for fringe groups to exploit while ordinary workers were being hit massively in their wages.

They should recognise that what Fianna Fail did in 1977 is not a proper platform to run a country. Water charges and property tax are here to stay. I want the trade unions to get back to looking after the interests of workers in the workplace and leave the politics to the electorate.

And neither the unions nor Sinn Fein will support a campaign of non payment of water bills. Gerry Adams said so on the radio today. That just leaves the far left, who don't even believe that people should own private property, pretending that they can defeat the law by mass illegality.

donegaLroad

Highflyer13 wrote: »

The next election is a major problem. None of the parties have earned my vote. A new clean cut centre right party is badly needed. I am surprised one hasn't emerged.

My very thoughts today also. A new party free from the old boys network, with progressive forward thinking members who are not muzzled by their party seniors.

Dyr

dxhound2005 wrote: »

My trade union asked it's membership to go on the march, I didn't go. Even if I thought that our income tax and VAT should be the only source of revenue for normal property tax and service charges which exist everywhere, I wouldn't want anything to do with the march. Among it organisers are the people sending out the thugs to intimidate ordinary workers. In Dundalk the ringleaders are paramilitaries.

My union and all the unions stood by in 2008 when Towards 2016 was abandoned. They stood by when the USC and pension contributions were introduced in 2010 relieving me of €50 a week in my take home pay. I have lost the guts of €14,000 nett from what I would have got. All under Fianna Fail initiatives. Now they are standing by saying they might ask for a pay rise when fiscal conditions improve. I might never see a pay rise again in my working life. But they want me to go marching in a vain attempt to reverse the law and save me maybe €100 a year.

The country has been tied up for years with people representing themselves as friends of workers, exhorting mass illegality. Bin charges and the previous property tax and water charges in the 1990's and more recently the new property tax and the new water charge. All turned into a circus for fringe groups to exploit while ordinary workers were being hit massively in their wages.

They should recognise that what Fianna Fail did in 1977 is not a proper platform to run a country. Water charges and property tax are here to stay. I want the trade unions to get back to looking after the interests of workers in the workplace and leave the politics to the electorate.

And neither the unions nor Sinn Fein will support a campaign of non payment of water bills. Gerry Adams said so on the radio today. That just leaves the far left, who don't even believe that people should own private property, pretending that they can defeat the law by mass illegality.

Thats a really roundabout way of saying that you didnt go because you're labour.

dxhound2005

Bambi wrote: »

Thats a really roundabout way of saying that you didnt go because you're labour.

Or just to tl;dr it, people are getting wound up about the wrong things.

Mushy

donegaLroad wrote: »

My very thoughts today also. A new party free from the old boys network, with progressive forward thinking members who are not muzzled by their party seniors.

My thoughts for a long while.

Quick question regarding this water lark, what happens if you don't get an application pack by the end of the month? Living in cork city, no sign of any meters being installed or any application pack.

dxhound2005

Mushy wrote: »

My thoughts for a long while.

Quick question regarding this water lark, what happens if you don't get an application pack by the end of the month? Living in cork city, no sign of any meters being installed or any application pack.

Do nothing, or contact them, your choice.

Not you, but lots of flak going IW's way for them not having a database which takes account of every possible permutation in peoples accommodation arrangements. That's because there were no local taxes here for 35 years. The database will develop gradually and most people will get included. It's how it works in countries which never abandoned local taxes.

Phoebas

Larbre34 wrote: »

Clean cut? lol

That's the thing - no matter what new party might emerge, they'll be dismissed for one reason or another.

That's why populists do well in this country - they'll promise the sun, moon and the stars and people lap it up. Nobody these days wants to vote for someone who offers nothing but blood, toil, tears and sweat, even when it's obvious that that's whats required.

Mushy

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Do nothing, or contact them, your choice.

Not you, but lots of flak going IW's way for them not having a database which takes account of every possible permutation in peoples accommodation arrangements. That's because there were no local taxes here for 35 years. The database will develop gradually and most people will get included. It's how it works in countries which never abandoned local taxes.

Cheers, will give them more time. Have a mate working there so will go that route next week.

My place is a terrace accommodation, I don't even know if we would be metered. Can't even find the gas meter for the house.

listermint

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Or just to tl;dr it, people are getting wound up about the wrong things.

More money being taken out of their pockets for not a lot in return.

I am struggling to find out what people should be wound up about?

This is the thick end of a rather large plank we have been beaten with for a number of years.

For a supposedly progressive tax economy, that keeps on being bandied about. This tax/charge is regressive completely.

BoJack Horseman

listermint wrote: »

More money being taken out of their pockets for not a lot in return.

I am struggling to find out what people should be wound up about?

This is the thick end of a rather large plank we have been beaten with for a number of years.

For a supposedly progressive tax economy, that keeps on being bandied about. This tax/charge is regressive completely.

The VAT rise cost you a lot more & is not progressive.

No one gets horny about that though.

Overall, its still one of the most progressive systems on earth.

dxhound2005

listermint wrote: »

More money being taken out of their pockets for not a lot in return.

I am struggling to find out what people should be wound up about?

This is the thick end of a rather large plank we have been beaten with for a number of years.

For a supposedly progressive tax economy, that keeps on being bandied about. This tax/charge is regressive completely.

I don't agree. People who contributed nothing except VAT are paying property tax and will now pay for water. Lots of them are better off than me and many other workers. And they include the types who wouldn't even pay a dog licence unless they were brought to the steps of a courthouse. Income tax and VAT should not have to bear the full cost of the services they get.

listermint

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The VAT rise cost you a lot more & is not progressive.

No one gets horny about that though.

Overall, its still one of the most progressive systems on earth.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't agree. People who contributed nothing except VAT are paying property tax and will now pay for water. Lots of them are better off than me and many other workers. And they include the types who wouldn't even pay a dog licence unless they were brought to the steps of a courthouse. Income tax and VAT should not have to bear the full cost of the services they get.

The facts are we were spun a yarn about these being included in local services which the Property tax was meant to cover. This was the government line.

VAT increases Property Tax Increases Pension taxes Insurance charges USC Charges lowering wages.

We swallowed it all,why? because i firmly believe that people said fair enough we will shoulder the burden. And they did that. Which is why there was not mass protests. We went along with it , we took one for the European team.

There is a tipping point and going back to the pockets again, that is what this water charge is doing. And any poster whinging about dole scroungers again and welfare society being the ones up against this has their head in the clouds.

I was at a party yesterday, not one of the persons in attendance was unemployed or on social housing, and not one of them agreed with the Water Charge. There was 'enough of this shouldering' other peoples debts weve had enough of it.

dxhound2005

listermint wrote: »

The facts are we were spun a yarn about these being included in local services which the Property tax was meant to cover. This was the government line.

VAT increases Property Tax Increases Pension taxes Insurance charges USC Charges lowering wages.

We swallowed it all,why? because i firmly believe that people said fair enough we will shoulder the burden. And they did that. Which is why there was not mass protests. We went along with it , we took one for the European team.

There is a tipping point and going back to the pockets again, that is what this water charge is doing. And any poster whinging about dole scroungers again and welfare society being the ones up against this has their head in the clouds.

I was at a party yesterday, not one of the persons in attendance was unemployed or on social housing, and not one of them agreed with the Water Charge. There was 'enough of this shouldering' other peoples debts weve had enough of it.

How would that explain the mass illegality which took place in the 1990's which did defeat water charges and property tax then. After a long battle bin charges came in. The very same arguments were used, we are already paying for it. Relying bizzarely, as the current far left are doing, on the 1977 Fianna Fail budget as their economic model. When it failed and been proved to be financial lunacy decades ago.

MichaelBaler

I believe the government plans to privatise the water as soon as it has spent enough of our money (taxpayers) to make it a profitable business, just like they did with post & telegraph now known as /On Post & Eircom . Don't let them! If they spent the money on the existing water service instead of paying for Board Gas to set up this new water company who have been spending millions of our €s creating this fiasco. DO YOU KNOW THAT THEY ARE PAYING HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY TO GAS COMPANY EMPLOYEES. THIS IS DISTURBANCE MONEY FOR SWITCHING FROM GAS TO WATER without even moving office.

tayto lover

You're down a lot more than 50 euro a week DX with all these charges and taxes not to mention the beloved USC. Time for workers to make a stand. Be brave and get out there lad.

BoJack Horseman

listermint wrote: »

There was 'enough of this shouldering' other peoples debts weve had enough of it.

Who is supposed to shoulder the €48 billion or so accumulated debt from running the nation over the last 4-5 years?

smash

MichaelBaler wrote: »

I believe the government plans to privatise the water as soon as it has spent enough of our money (taxpayers) to make it a profitable business, just like they did with post & telegraph now known as /On Post & Eircom . Don't let them! If they spent the money on the existing water service instead of paying for Board Gas to set up this new water company who have been spending millions of our €s creating this fiasco. DO YOU KNOW THAT THEY ARE PAYING HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY TO GAS COMPANY EMPLOYEES. THIS IS DISTURBANCE MONEY FOR SWITCHING FROM GAS TO WATER without even moving office.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1qN5EoQSEg

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

You're down a lot more than 50 euro a week DX with all these charges and taxes not to mention the beloved USC. Time for workers to make a stand. Be brave and get out there lad.

I realise that I am powerless and the money will never come back. I just take some small comfort from the fact that the freeloaders are now being stuck for a bit as well. No accountant that I know of can make the property tax disappear for the well heeled.

listermint

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How would that explain the mass illegality which took place in the 1990's which did defeat water charges and property tax then. After a long battle bin charges came in. The very same arguments were used, we are already paying for it. Relying bizzarely, as the current far left are doing, on the 1977 Fianna Fail budget as their economic model. When it failed and been proved to be financial lunacy decades ago.

Bin collection is a completely different argument. It is quite easy to privatise bin collection and have it run in a competitive market.

A water network is a completely different kettle of fish, For one it is fundamental for 'life' itself. Yes i do believe charging for it affects the elderly the ill and the lower echelons of society more than it affects the likes of yourself in Public consistent firm employment.

You are under the illusion that in privatising such a vital commodity the service and the network will improve despite the fact that these guys have only been installing them a few months and we already have daily stories of mass leaks from poorly fitted and installed meters. Irish waters replies so far have been these will be fixed in 2015?

Does that seem legit to you?

Do you not think we should perhaps have firm fixed and regulated national control and ownership over the countries water supply. Or would you prefer this to be drafted into private ownership with scant regards for the price on the doorstep. Private = Shareholders. That is the facts of the matter.

listermint

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Who is supposed to shoulder the €48 billion or so accumulated debt from running the nation over the last 4-5 years?

Germany can take its share of it back. What have we received from Europe the last 6 years bar 'No' 'No'


Do you think that is correct that a country of this size has 43% of Europes debt burden despite the fact alot of the debt originated outside these borders ?

Is that correct?