***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

awec

masculinist wrote: »

You have no valid counter argument. You are grasping at straws now. You oppose democracy if you support forcing water charges upon the population. That is a simple fact.

How do you know?

Iwasfrozen

masculinist wrote: »

You have no valid counter argument. You are grasping at straws now. You oppose democracy if you support forcing water charges upon the population. That is a simple fact.

For it to be a fact you would first have to prove undeniably the majority oppose water charges.

dxhound2005

masculinist wrote: »

You have no valid counter argument. You are grasping at straws now. You oppose democracy if you support forcing water charges upon the population. That is a simple fact.

I don't want to force water charges on to the population. It's already the law, as decided by our democratic system.

Happyman42

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's possible. It would help save Labor seats imo. But the Labor leaders are probably betting on a recovery before the next general election.

I expect the protests will put most pressure on Labour though. I don't think they are strong enough internally as a party to withstand it. Not with Joan 'let em eat cake' Burton at the helm

masculinist

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

The government implementing these charges were democratically elected into the government, by the people.

That's a Republic , not a democracy . The purest form of democracy is when you look to how many people oppose this . The reality is an overwhelming majority oppose water charges. Nobody can sell this as a popular move. If someone supports the forced imposition of water charges then he cannot call himself a democrat.


[by the way , democracy sometimes gets jammed and twisted by those in power. Hitler was democratically elected as a rather infamous example.]

In Lonesome Dove

awec wrote: »

The people outside the GPO on Saturday don't represent the public so there is no way you can make that assertion. They are not elected - they represent nobody but themselves.

There are probably others who are against the charges, and many more who are ambivalent. I doubt there is anyone actively for them - nobody wants another bill but some people can see the reason behind it.

There's no point sitting here pretending that Saturday is proof that the public have had enough.

A lot of people can very clearly see the reasoning behind it. It is to enrich the fat cats of Irish Water under disguise of environmental and conservation reasons.

Banjo String

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

For it to be a fact you would first have to prove undeniably the majority oppose water charges.

The only way to do that irrefutably, would be via a referendum.

Banjo String

awec wrote: »

The people outside the GPO on Saturday don't represent the public so there is no way you can make that assertion. They are not elected - they represent nobody but themselves.

There are probably others who are against the charges, and many more who are ambivalent. I doubt there is anyone actively for them - nobody wants another bill but some people can see the reason behind it.

There's no point sitting here pretending that Saturday is proof that the public have had enough.

My post obviously was made with reference to the actual people at the protest.

I can tell you that the sentiment in the crowd was definitely a "fcuk your threats" one.

The Backwards Man

The only fat cat in the history of all time was a bloody liberal socialist who gave everyrthing away for free!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga23iSxyXO4

FREETV

This song is dedicated to the people in power now who are supposed to represent us all but who infact all represent themselves and their hefty Bank Balances. You all know who you are and what you are!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5HXQ2e4yVA

Highflyer13

I fully expect these clowns to throw some sweeteners at us tomorrow. Sorry lads but its too little to late.I for one won't be buying it. The beast has awoken and the resilient Irish are rising up.

On a side note it shows how out of touch Labour are when they send one of their consistently weakest performers Lorraine Higgins onto Vin B. Obviously she is still rated within the party somehow.

dxhound2005

masculinist wrote: »

That's a Republic , not a democracy . The purest form of democracy is when you look to how many people oppose this . The reality is an overwhelming majority oppose water charges. Nobody can sell this as a popular move. If someone supports the forced imposition of water charges then he cannot call himself a democrat.


[by the way , democracy sometimes gets jammed and twisted by those in power. Hitler was democratically elected as a rather infamous example.]

In this instance I prefer politicians who do not try to court popularity. It will probably lead to many of them losing their seats. But taking away the full burden of the cost of water from income tax and VAT is a good thing, to me as a PAYE taxpayer. Hitler was very popular for a time, although he was never democratically elected despite your claim.

Bertie Ahern was extremely popular for about ten year because he liked to make decisions which were popular with "the people". His popularity has waned somewhat in recent years for some reason.

Iwasfrozen

Banjo String wrote: »

The only way to do that irrefutably, would be via a referendum.

We should have a system where if 10% of the population over the age of 18 sign a petition on any given issue it forces a referendum.

Sir Arthur Daley

What with all the youtube videos.

dxhound2005

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

What with all the youtube videos.

It's Budget Day. The people are getting giddy.

gladrags

awec wrote: »

The people outside the GPO on Saturday don't represent the public so there is no way you can make that assertion. They are not elected - they represent nobody but themselves.

There are probably others who are against the charges, and many more who are ambivalent. I doubt there is anyone actively for them - nobody wants another bill but some people can see the reason behind it.

There's no point sitting here pretending that Saturday is proof that the public have enough.

The marchers are representative of the public.

Just as,for example,the silent majority or minority,are representative of the public.

It is clear that a large section of the public represent the view that the w charges,should be scrapped.

There was no vote to apply w charges,so democratically (as a poster just pointed out) it’s undemocratic,and divisive,because we do not know what point of view,is the democratic will of the electorate.

gladrags

Highflyer13 wrote: »

I fully expect these clowns to throw some sweeteners at us tomorrow. Sorry lads but its too little to late.I for one won't be buying it. The beast has awoken and the resilient Irish are rising up.

On a side note it shows how out of touch Labour are when they send one of their consistently weakest performers Lorraine Higgins onto Vin B. Obviously she is still rated within the party somehow.

There will be "tax cuts" of sorts,wartered down water charges.

And rumour suggests that some housing initiative will be announced.

Maybe a surprise or two,the rumours could be planted.

dxhound2005

gladrags wrote: »

The marchers are representative of the public.

Just as,for example,the silent majority or minority,are representative of the public.

It is clear that a large section of the public represent the view that the w charges,should be scrapped.

There was no vote to apply w charges,so democratically (as a poster just pointed out) it’s undemocratic,and divisive.

Are you a fan of the "pure democracy" the other poster mentioned? I am not aware of any other form of democracy apart from the one where I get to vote every now and again. And referendums. Maybe there is a majority of people opposed to water charges. But under our constitutional system, proposed legislation which covers economic matters cannot be put to a referendum. If it could I expect no new tax or charge would ever be introduced and many of the existing ones would be abolished.

Neither can the Seanad defeat any money bill passed by the Dail. Pandering to populist opinion in these matters would just leave the country up the creek. And as someone once said, the worst kind of a tax is a new tax. "The people" will get used to paying for water just like they pay for a bus ticket or for electricity as the end user.

OK so I haven't read all of this thread, its just too big!!
I Apologise, seriously.

I have a question though, is it true that there is only one allowance for one adult per household? I have four adults in my house, is it true I will only receive one allowance for me? Nothing for the other adults?
For what its worth, I haven't sent back my form yet, I have a serious problem with these people getting my info.
Where from? How dare some other company give them my info, and I'll be f##ked if I send them my pps so they can sell it on ( which I reckon they will!!)

dxhound2005

bubblypop wrote: »

OK so I haven't read all of this thread, its just too big!!
I Apologise, seriously.

I have a question though, is it true that there is only one allowance for one adult per household? I have four adults in my house, is it true I will only receive one allowance for me? Nothing for the other adults?
For what its worth, I haven't sent back my form yet, I have a serious problem with these people getting my info.
Where from? How dare some other company give them my info, and I'll be f##ked if I send them my pps so they can sell it on ( which I reckon they will!!)

That started off OK but it went a bit weird at the end.

Grandpa Hassan

masculinist wrote: »

I'd like to see who turns up if ''The Occupant'' gets summoned to court. Over a million of us

This is one unpopular move which will never be accepted by the Irish people.I hear them extremely angry about this everywhere I go.

Except that tenants opposed to the charge will find themselves in a difficult position when their LL makes registering for the charge a condition of the lease. I want no come back on to me, so have already included that clause in leases that my tenants have signed. And will be checking to ensure they've registered. That is going to force a certain level of compliance by tenants I think

FREETV

If the people of this Country do not stand up for themselves then you will allow these EU, Private Corporations and US Bankers subservient lot in the Dail walk all over you.
There will be plenty of people to back you all up and support you Nationwide.
Take a stand, and say NO and ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Protest-against-water-charges-in-the-republic-of-Ireland/213410058694008

Pwindedd

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Except that tenants opposed to the charge will find themselves in a difficult position when their LL makes registering for the charge a condition of the lease. I want no come back on to me, so have already included that clause in leases that my tenants have signed. And will be checking to ensure they've registered. That is going to force a certain level of compliance by tenants I think

Yep most tenancy agreements state that tenants are responsible for payment of all utility charges or similar terminology. Whilst they can protest the charges - payment is the wiser option to avoid breaking your tenancy agreement. I can see deposits dwindling nationwide unless landlords are supportive of non payment.

gladrags

"Are you a fan of the "pure democracy" the other poster mentioned? I am not aware of any other form of democracy apart from the one where I get to vote every now and again. And referendums. Maybe there is a majority of people opposed to water charges. But under our constitutional system, proposed legislation which covers economic matters cannot be put to a referendum. If it could I expect no new tax or charge would ever be introduced and many of the existing ones would be abolished."

I am stating the fact of the matter.

The fact is we can only assume who is in the majority,because there was no vote.

Correct me if I'm wrong,did the IMF not advise the Gov (or tell them) to inttoduce the water charge?

Democratic?

Given the already heavy austerity measures,the housing crisis (mortgage repayments),pension levy etc,the water charge was understandably the final straw.

Unless of course you feel that the electorate should calm down,do nothing.

Then the word peasants comes to mind.

Protests have been used globally in democratic states, in similar circumstances.

It is democratic to express your opinion.


"Neither can the Seanad defeat any money bill passed by the Dail. Pandering to populist opinion in these matters would just leave the country up the creek. And as someone once said, the worst kind of a tax is a new tax. "The people" will get used to paying for water just like they pay for a bus ticket or for electricity as the end user."

I fear to think what would happen, if we "get used" to unfair taxes and levies.

Did you "get used" to paying the IMF for the corruption of the banks?

We all have our opinions.

Cheers

FREETV

The question is are you all going to let these liars in suits who live like Royalty compared to the common man and woman on the street dictate to you against your will?

Over one hundred thousand protested in Dublin alone last Saturday and still they try to enforce this immoral and unethical Tax on people and ignore the vast majority of Irish People's voices who are vehemently against water charges in order to follow the wishes of The Troika and Nazi's controlling the EU.
Yes, they have infiltrated the EU.

I thought that this Country was supposed to be for and about we the People?
Show them who's Boss, vote them out of power and never vote again for those Parties or Fianna Fail or you will get more of the same.

By the way Hitler didn't commit suicide either, he used many doubles, he and Eva Braun fled to Argentina, many Nazi Scientists joined/formed NASA.
The F.B.I know this, they have files regarding this so go read them.

RTE News and Current Affairs Programmes are all screened by the Irish Government so don't fall for all of their crap also please.
We are living in Tyranny and not a Democracy!

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That started off OK but it went a bit weird at the end.

Why??

MadYaker

FREETV wrote: »

The question is are you all going to let these liars in suits who live like Royalty compared to the common man and woman on the street dictate to you against your will?

Over one hundred thousand protested in Dublin alone last Saturday and still they try to enforce this immoral and unethical Tax on people and ignore the vast majority of Irish People's voices who are vehemently against water charges in order to follow the wishes of The Troika and Nazi's controlling the EU.
Yes, they have infiltrated the EU.

I thought that this Country was supposed to be for and about we the People?
Show them who's Boss, vote them out of power and never vote again for those Parties or Fianna Fail or you will get more of the same.

By the way Hitler didn't commit suicide either, he used many doubles, he and Eva Braun fled to Argentina, many Nazi Scientists joined/formed NASA.
The F.B.I know this, they have files regarding this so go read them.

RTE News and Current Affairs Programmes are all screened by the Irish Government so don't fall for all of their crap also please.
We are living in Tyranny and not a Democracy!

When was the last time you went outside?

MadYaker

These reductions for people on social welfare annoy me. I don't mind paying for my own water but im fcuked if im paying for other peoples water. Id vote for anyone who says they're going to drastically reduce social welfare dramatically.

FREETV

MadYaker wrote: »

When was the last time you went outside?

I have travelled around the Globe.

Here is another reason never to pay for water charges here.

http://www.exposingtruth.com/how-to-remove-fluoride/#axzz2cSs6J9MM

FREETV

The Roswell event and Aliens have been covered up too.
Fluoridation of water and its adverse side effects are also covered up by this Government here.

The truth is stranger than fiction!
Now, getting back on topic.
More evidence of the lies by the Demons in power in Dail Eireann.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LBlW_XJJrQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHN18Rzhk_c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edRtBjl_esM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edRtBjl_esM

Anybody with even an average IQ can see through all of their lies about water charges and other taxes and where the money goes and will go so stop voting for parasites please.