***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Banjo String

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's the unique identifier but it does not give the holder access to any of that information. For your loan history, they would have to get access to bank files. Same goes for the rest. The identifier can only be used with the information the holder already has. It can't access the information you posted.

Lol.

If it's as useless as you make out, I'm at a loss as to why they need it to begin with.

Oh wait.... Wasn't it to check of your entitled to allowances, and to cross check children claims etc.

You reckon it can't be used for anything else?

Bless your innocence.

Phoebas

Banjo String wrote: »

Your PPS number basically ties you to anything even remotely financial.

Bank account
Loan applications
Its one of the first things an employer will ask for, for pay roll. (so employment)
Revenue dealings
Social Services /child benefit.
Pension

Etc etc.

AFAIK, you only ever get the one, and it can't be changed.

Very much unlike a job, or address, or even a name.

Let me get this straight. The PPSN has such a range of uses that you need to share it in dealings with :
* various banks
* other private financial institutions
* all of your employers past, present and future
* the Revenue
* social welfare
* pension providers
* etc, etc.

But you shouldn't ever share it with the state owned water utility.

Is that about right?

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Try that less handy routine with a bank sometime and let me know how you get on.

I'll let you know how I got on now.

I first moved to Dublin from (at the time Sydney) in 04.

When I moved there I opened an account with aib, (one of the first things I did actually) to take care of a few financial things, savings from work in Australia, etc etc.

At the time I had no pps number (and didn't know what one even was tbh) but at the time, they were more than happy to take my National insurance number, issued to me when I turned 16 in the north.

I had no dramas whatsoever.

Oh, and I started work a week later, and only then was I even made aware about a pps number (to get off emergency tax)

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

Let me get this straight. The PPSN has such a range of uses that you need to share it in dealings with :
* various banks
* other private financial institutions
* all of your employers past, present and future
* the Revenue
* social welfare
* pension providers
* etc, etc.

But you shouldn't ever share it with the state owned (for now) water utility.

Is that about right?

Yeah.

And Fyp.

Little CuChulainn

Banjo String wrote: »

Lol.

If it's as useless as you make out, I'm at a loss as to why they need it to begin with.

Oh wait.... Wasn't it to check of your entitled to allowances, and to cross check children claims etc.

You reckon it can't be used for anything else?

Bless your innocence.

Because they are specifically being allowed cross check it with the social to confirm the occupiers details. They cannot access any other information with it. You act like it's some kind of key that can open the lock to your entire life.

gladrags

Phoebas wrote: »

Let me get this straight. The PPSN has such a range of uses that you need to share it in dealings with :
* various banks
* other private financial institutions
* all of your employers past, present and future
* the Revenue
* social welfare
* pension providers
* etc, etc.

But you shouldn't ever share it with the state owned water utility.

Is that about right?

Definitely not.

Privatised profiteering Quangos!

There is a strong likehood that your bank details will follow.

Much less unique to the individual,more in the public domain.

Open to corruption.

Phoebas

gladrags wrote: »

Definitely not.

Privatised profiteering Quangos!

There is a strong likehood that your bank details will follow.

Now you've got me all mixed up.

Nobody has objected to Irish Water being given bank details - they ask for them on the application pack so the DD can be set up.
But whatever else I do, I shouldn't give them my PPSN because they might use it to get my bank details.

:p:pac: (wasn't sure which one to use - all work here)

gladrags

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Because they are specifically being allowed cross check it with the social to confirm the occupiers details. They cannot access any other information with it. You act like it's some kind of key that can open the lock to your entire life.

So what information can they not access via your PPS?

Occupiers details are freely available via revenue, state records.

If,as you imply,PPS # is secondary,why not use census or revenue stats?

Never never divulge your PPS # unless compelled .

lmimmfn

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Did you quote the wrong post, your reply has nothing to do with my post.

People are asking someone here to hand over their PPS as if it is the same as handing it over to IW. It is clearly not the same, IW is a semi state utility company with data protection policies, a randomer on the internet is just that, a randomer.

if its a legit state owned company then there should just be a tick box on the application form to allow access to welfares db with the PPS numbers. Its being setup like this so it can easily be sold on.

Phoebas

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They cannot access any other information with it.

gladrags wrote: »

So what information can they not access via your PPS?

There are no words....

micosoft

adrian92 wrote: »

Barely - just trying to be reasonable, you know. I acknowledge it may be my hang-up. The general population may have no difficulty with with a state body supporting the arms industry. I just was wondering what others thought?

If you were to be uneasy about the arms trade you won't be flying (Boeing and Airbus manufacture Missiles and war planes), use the computer you typed your query on (Intel and AMD create hardened chips for military use), use the Internet (part funded and created by DARPA - the US defence research agency) etc etc etc. I think what people are thinking is that you seem to be very selective of when you have a problem with the "arms industry" when it's Irish Water vs your own personal procurement of devices made by "arms companies".

dxhound2005

lmimmfn wrote: »

if its a legit state owned company then there should just be a tick box on the application form to allow access to welfares db with the PPS numbers. Its being setup like this so it can easily be sold on.

It is legit no if about it.

micosoft

gladrags wrote: »

So what information can they not access via your PPS?

Occupiers details are freely available via revenue, state records.

If,as you imply,PPS # is secondary,why not use census or revenue stats?

Never never divulge your PPS # unless compelled .

The census is anonymous and revenue uses your PPS number (do you know that stats means statistics?). The PPS number is a unique identifier which is merely to differentiate Tom O'Reilly from Tom O'Reilly from Tom O'Reilly. It really is that simple.

I suppose you've never opened a bank account (PPS required under money laundering legislation), get a Mortgage (required to get your Mortgage allowance discounted off the mortgage repayment), go to a pharmacy (Either Medical card or Drugs Payment Card require PPS), GP (same). All private entities.

lmimmfn

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It is legit no if about it.

ok, so in which case they dont need my PPS number or those of my family.

gladrags

Phoebas wrote: »

Now you've got me all mixed up.

Nobody has objected to Irish Water being given bank details - they ask for them on the application pack so the DD can be set up.
But whatever else I do, I shouldn't give them my PPSN because they might use it to get my bank details.

:p:pac: (wasn't sure which one to use - all work here)

I can understand your confusion,it is hard to handle,the fact that so called state bodies,require you'r personal details,that were once exclusive to the individual,on the basis that they should remain so.

It just takes a little forward rational thinking.

A "what if " scenario.

They have your PPS,your bank details.

The very possible consequences are obvious.

Does debt collection methodology ring a bell?

Try comprehension.

If you are "all mixed up" I feel for you.

Take a holiday from this site.

Might work.

dxhound2005

lmimmfn wrote: »

ok, so in which case they dont need my PPS number or those of my family.

Nobody should if your tick box idea takes off. CIE should be told to put a tick box on their school transport form and not ask parents for their children's PPSN. Same with the banks, landlords, employers etc. I can see it being a great success.

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1396885063-Application---April-2014---eng.pdf

Phoebas

gladrags wrote: »

I can understand your confusion,it is hard to handle,the fact that so called state bodies,require you'r personal details,that were once exclusive to the individual,on the basis that they should remain so.

It just takes a little forward rational thinking.

A "what if " scenario.

They have your PPS,your bank details.

The very possible consequences are obvious.

Does debt collection methodology ring a bell?

Try comprehension.

I'm doing my best but you're not giving me much to work with.

dxhound2005

Phoebas wrote: »

I'm doing my best but you're not giving me much to work with.

He uses double spacing. That should make things twice as clear.

Mumm_ra

I signed up the application online 13- 14 days ago and decided today that I was not happy that they could pursue any payment for people who did not sign up. I rang Irish Water and after about 20 minutes got talking to an operator. I enquired about the 14 day cooling off period, of which she had no knowledge. I asked could I cancel and she said no problem. I enquired again about the 14 day cooling off period and was I still eligible. I explain the legal requirement and she said she had to speak to her manager. After about 5 minutes she returned and said the 14 day cooling off period did not apply as this was not a contract and was just an application for allowances. I thought this strange so I got her to confirm we were not in a contract and could cancel at any time. I didn't cancel as I figured that I was getting allowances but not in a contract so it made no difference. I took the time and the ladies name (presumably the calls are recorded) I legally cannot be in a contract if one party states it's not a contract. Discuss

Quin_Dub

gladrags wrote: »

So what information can they not access via your PPS?

Occupiers details are freely available via revenue, state records.

If,as you imply,PPS # is secondary,why not use census or revenue stats?

Never never divulge your PPS # unless compelled .

So.. Never give your PPS number to a State entity??

This is the same State that gave you your PPS number in the first place...right.

Am I missing something here?

Satriale

Mumm_ra wrote: »

I signed up the application online 13- 14 days ago and decided today that I was not happy that they could pursue any payment for people who did not sign up. I rang Irish Water and after about 20 minutes got talking to an operator. I enquired about the 14 day cooling off period, of which she had no knowledge. I asked could I cancel and she said no problem. I enquired again about the 14 day cooling off period and was I still eligible. I explain the legal requirement and she said she had to speak to her manager. After about 5 minutes she returned and said the 14 day cooling off period did not apply as this was not a contract and was just an application for allowances. I thought this strange so I got her to confirm we were not in a contract and could cancel at any time. I didn't cancel as I figured that I was getting allowances but not in a contract so it made no difference. I took the time and the ladies name (presumably the calls are recorded) I legally cannot be in a contract if one party states it's not a contract. Discuss

I wouldn't take a whole lot of notice of anyone at Irish Water. They don't seem to know what they are talking about most of the time. Best ask the lads on here, they have the pitch down to a fine art.

Mumm_ra

Satriale wrote: »

I wouldn't take a whole lot of notice of anyone at Irish Water. They don't seem to know what they are talking about most of the time. Best ask the lads on here, they have the pitch down to a fine art.

I gatherered that but someone in IW telling me something will have been misrepresentation as apposed to someone on a forum

dxhound2005

Mumm_ra wrote: »

I signed up the application online 13- 14 days ago and decided today that I was not happy that they could pursue any payment for people who did not sign up. I rang Irish Water and after about 20 minutes got talking to an operator. I enquired about the 14 day cooling off period, of which she had no knowledge. I asked could I cancel and she said no problem. I enquired again about the 14 day cooling off period and was I still eligible. I explain the legal requirement and she said she had to speak to her manager. After about 5 minutes she returned and said the 14 day cooling off period did not apply as this was not a contract and was just an application for allowances. I thought this strange so I got her to confirm we were not in a contract and could cancel at any time. I didn't cancel as I figured that I was getting allowances but not in a contract so it made no difference. I took the time and the ladies name (presumably the calls are recorded) I legally cannot be in a contract if one party states it's not a contract. Discuss

You didn't sign up. Because you can't provide a signature online. Neither is there a space on the paper form for a signature, just a declaration which you have to tick to say that all the information you provided is true. You should discuss this with a legal professional. You could prepare yourself for the consultation by reading the relevant legislation. And the Regulators handbook for customers should be required reading for amateur lawyers like yourself.

Normally when someone writes Discuss at the end of a post I just reply Nah. But you caught me at a weak moment.

http://www.cer.ie/docs/000956/CER14364%20Irish%20Water%20Customer%20Handbook.pdf

dorito92

what do i do if im moving house, we have already registered but will be moving around the 1st of november, ive the registration details for the new house so i can register before the 31st, i dont want to end up with 2 bills in the door

dxhound2005

dorito92 wrote: »

what do i do if im moving house, we have already registered but will be moving around the 1st of november, ive the registration details for the new house so i can register before the 31st, i dont want to end up with 2 bills in the door

Irish Water should be able to help you with that.

http://www.water.ie/help-centre/questions-and-answers/what-should-you-do-if-you-are-moving-home-soon/

Larbre34

dorito92 wrote: »

what do i do if im moving house, we have already registered but will be moving around the 1st of november, ive the registration details for the new house so i can register before the 31st, i dont want to end up with 2 bills in the door

Ring up, withdraw your registration from your current house. When you get settled in your new home, ring up again and register for the new address. The 30th October deadline is clearly going to be pushed way back.

Personally id be wanting no bill for either house but you seem to be eager.

Mumm_ra

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You didn't sign up. Because you can't provide a signature online. Neither is there a space on the paper form for a signature, just a declaration which you have to tick to say that all the information you provided is true. You should discuss this with a legal professional. You could prepare yourself for the consultation by reading the relevant legislation. And the Regulators handbook for customers should be required reading for amateur lawyers like yourself.

Normally when someone writes Discuss at the end of a post I just reply Nah. But you caught me at a weak moment.

Thanks for that but it provided no help at all with regard to my query. Maybe I insulted your profession by stating the well known cooling off period ( I presume everybody above 18 years of age have been told this at least once - mobile phone etc) or you are indeed at a weak point. If you want to be helpful then can you confirm if there is intention if one party states there is no contract? And if so how? Discuss

chasm

Mumm_ra wrote: »

I signed up the application online 13- 14 days ago and decided today that I was not happy that they could pursue any payment for people who did not sign up. I rang Irish Water and after about 20 minutes got talking to an operator. I enquired about the 14 day cooling off period, of which she had no knowledge. I asked could I cancel and she said no problem. I enquired again about the 14 day cooling off period and was I still eligible. I explain the legal requirement and she said she had to speak to her manager. After about 5 minutes she returned and said the 14 day cooling off period did not apply as this was not a contract and was just an application for allowances. I thought this strange so I got her to confirm we were not in a contract and could cancel at any time. I didn't cancel as I figured that I was getting allowances but not in a contract so it made no difference. I took the time and the ladies name (presumably the calls are recorded) I legally cannot be in a contract if one party states it's not a contract. Discuss

Head of Customer Operations with Irish Water Paul O’ Donoghue stated this back in September on Ocean FM:

"...its not a contract per se, in fact the fact of being a customer for irish water services is established under statute, so there's law there that indicates that if you are receiving your services in a particular fashion you are customer of irish water so this application form is not in, in of itself a contract, it doesnt need to be"

http://oceanfm.ie/2014/09/04/irish-water-application-packs-arrive-to-households-in-the-northwest/

If you look up the relevant legislation you will see that what he said is correct.

dxhound2005

Mumm_ra wrote: »

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You didn't sign up. Because you can't provide a signature online. Neither is there a space on the paper form for a signature, just a declaration which you have to tick to say that all the information you provided is true. You should discuss this with a legal professional. You could prepare yourself for the consultation by reading the relevant legislation. And the Regulators handbook for customers should be required reading for amateur lawyers like yourself.

Normally when someone writes Discuss at the end of a post I just reply Nah. But you caught me at a weak moment.

Thanks for that but it provided no help at all with regard to my query. Maybe I insulted your profession by stating the well known cooling off period ( I presume everybody above 18 years of age have been told this at least once - mobile phone etc) or you are indeed at a weak point. If you want to be helpful then can you confirm if there is intention if one party states there is no contract? And if so how? Discuss

Do you remember signing a contract for your water and waste water services pre Irish Water?

Mumm_ra

chasm wrote: »

Head of Customer Operations with Irish Water Paul O’ Donoghue stated this back in September on Ocean FM:

"...its not a contract per se, in fact the fact of being a customer for irish water services is established under statute, so there's law there that indicates that if you are receiving your services in a particular fashion you are customer of irish water so this application form is not in, in of itself a contract, it doesnt need to be"



If you look up the relevant legislation you will see that what he said is correct.

Thanks that is helpful so why are people so adverse to completing a form that means nothing