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***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

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    #572
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    S.O wrote: »
    Some people seem to think that they will have an easy time restricting water supplies that residents will just sit back and do nothing , the trouble they re having now installing water meters in various estates around the country is a walk in the park compared to what they will face when they try to reduce peoples water + plus those that do try to fit any restricting device will be photographed and named and shamed on social media, during the Dublin anti water charges campaign in the mid 90s only a small per % were disconnected at the time and anyone that had their water disconnected community/campaign volunteers reconnected them.

    Yes there was a campaign which defeated water charges back then. And they also defeated the property tax which was tried then. But they didn't defeat the bin charges. Your only hope now is that the next government will do away with water charges (and property tax and bin charges). There will be plenty of candidates offering that policy looking for your vote.


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    #573
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Yes there was a campaign which defeated water charges back then. And they also defeated the property tax which was tried then. But they didn't defeat the bin charges. Your only hope now is that the next government will do away with water charges (and property tax and bin charges). There will be plenty of candidates offering that policy looking for your vote.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5hWWe-ts2s


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    #574
    S.O
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭S.O


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Yes there was a campaign which defeated water charges back then. And they also defeated the property tax which was tried then. But they didn't defeat the bin charges. Your only hope now is that the next government will do away with water charges (and property tax and bin charges). There will be plenty of candidates offering that policy looking for your vote.

    The bin charges were brought in during the height of an economic boom when people had more money in their pockets = more disposable income - not much appetite to fight something when you have money in your pocket to pay it, , the water charges are being brought in during an economic recession when people have a lot less money in their pockets = less disposable income and more of an appetite in people to fight something.


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    #575
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Is there now a law that requires a person to enter into a contract with a private, for profit, company?

    Yes there is: Water Services (No.2) Act 2013


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    #576
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Oscar Gateaux wrote: »
    Yes there is: Water Services (No.2) Act 2013

    Correct me if I'm wrong here.

    You're not compelled to become a customer, or did I get the whole contract / signature of consent wrong :confused:


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    #577
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Of course you're not compelled to be a customer. You can get yourself disconnected from the water main or sewerage system if you want.


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    #578
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    S.O wrote: »
    The bin charges were brought in during the height of an economic boom when people had more money in their pockets = more disposable income - not much appetite to fight something when you have money in your pocket to pay it, , the water charges are being brought in during an economic recession when people have a lot less money in their pockets = less disposable income and more of an appetite in people to fight something.

    And look at who was behind the campaign, the usual Trotskyite bunch.

    The Anti-Bin Tax Campaign opposed the introduction of bin charges by local authorities in Ireland. The campaign centred largely in city areas, in particular Dublin. The campaigns were locally based with some co-ordination in the Dublin area. Non-payment was the tactic used against the charge.[1]

    The campaign was supported by a variety of people from community and minor political groupings, such as Socialist Party, Socialist Workers Party, Irish Socialist Network, Workers Solidarity Movement and Working Class Action.


    If you really think these groups are going to mobilise the masses to defeat water charges then fine. But they will be long gone off the scene when you have to pay up. If our government had left things alone in 1977 we would just have domestic rates still. Instead we now have bin charges, water charges and property tax. It was the most disastrous decision ever.


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    #579
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Is there now a law that requires a person to enter into a contract with a private, for profit, company?

    If so, let me know of it, I see great potential for my own business. I'd love to start sending out bills randomly to folk who never requested, nor signed up for my services.....

    Let me guess.... There isn't one? #sadface
    Oscar Gateaux wrote: »
    Yes there is: Water Services (No.2) Act 2013
    Banjo String wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong here.

    You're not compelled to become a customer, or did I get the whole contract / signature of consent wrong :confused:
    Oscar Gateaux wrote: »
    Of course you're not compelled to be a customer. You can get yourself disconnected from the water main or sewerage system if you want.


    So there isn't.
    Oscar Gateaux wrote: »
    Does not compute
    Indeed.


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    #580
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    dxhound2005 wrote: »

    The campaign was supported by a variety of people from community and minor political groupings, such as Socialist Party, Socialist Workers Party, Irish Socialist Network, Workers Solidarity Movement and Working Class Action.
    [/I]

    I always enjoy the irony of those who shout loudest for increased provision of state services are also those who campaign most vehemently against the funding of same.

    As long as someone else pays for it I presume....:rolleyes:


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    #581
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Is there now a law that requires a person to enter into a contract with a private, for profit, company?

    /QUOTE]

    Why do people keep saying that Irish Water is a private for profit company.
    It isn't -


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    #582
    S.O
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭S.O


    paddyirish23 wrote: »
    I wouldn't have a problem paying for this if
    The allowances were fair. -They're not
    If we weren't already paying for this charge through general taxation.
    They scrap the usc and just take the lpt and water charges off us based on usage is only fair way I'd agree but shovelling millions into a company that was never really needed in the first place shows this Country will never learn no matter who's in government!!

    I just received my letter into the family home from irish water really don't know if I should send it back or bend over and take it seeing as everyone else seems to be doing

    Any ideas??

    I agree with you to an extent, if the allowances were fair and an allowance per person rather then per household and the 1.2 billion paying for water at present was reduced for taxpayers, the problem with the paying for water per usage is even if a good per % of people were to change their household water appliances, showers/duo flush toilet to reduce their water bills Irish water will just increase the cost of water per unit to make up for lost revenue, I haven,t received my letter yet, I don, think everyone else is blindly bending over a lot of forms won,t be sent back and a lot of the forms that will be sent back will not be signed and have the no contract wrote on them, a lot of the posters on this forum in favour of water charges, going back on older threads were also in favour of the fiscal treaty/household charge/property tax/broadcasting charrge.


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    #583
    S.O
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭S.O


    Ogham wrote: »
    Banjo String wrote: »
    Is there now a law that requires a person to enter into a contract with a private, for profit, company?

    /QUOTE]

    Why do people keep saying that Irish Water is a private for profit company.
    It isn't -

    Because it says on their website in the small print.

    ( Irish Water. Private Company Limited by Shares,)

    When people read that what other conclusion are people to come to other then Irish water is a private company.


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    #584
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    S.O wrote: »
    I agree with you to an extent, if the allowances were fair and an allowance per person rather then per household and the 1.2 billion paying for water at present was reduced for taxpayers, the problem with the paying for water per usage is even if a good per % of people were to change their household water appliances, showers/duo flush toilet to reduce their water bills Irish water will just increase the cost of water per unit to make up for lost revenue, I haven,t received my letter yet, I don, think everyone else is blindly bending over a lot of forms won,t be sent back and a lot of the forms that will be sent back will not be signed and have the no contract wrote on them,a lot of the posters on this forum in favour of water charges, going back on older threads were also in favour of the fiscal treaty/household charge/property tax/broadcasting charrge.

    I'm just pointing out that the political campaigns in the Oireachtas to defeat these measure failed, democracy in action. That can always be reversed. In the meantime they are law and you will just have to bend over and take it.


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    #585
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,554 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    S.O wrote: »
    One of the water meter installers in Dublin ( Brian ) cut off water on 3 old residents ( who were reconnected by community activists ( for refusing a water meter, his face has already being shown and shamed on social media, the same fate awaits other scabs who try anything similar.

    Evidence please?


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    #586
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    S.O wrote: »
    Ogham wrote: »

    Because it says on their website in the small print.

    ( Irish Water. Private Company Limited by Shares,)

    When people read that what other conclusion are people to come to other then Irish water is a private company.

    But you know it isn't really (don't you?)


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    #587
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Ogham wrote: »

    Why do people keep saying that Irish Water is a private for profit company.
    It isn't -

    It is a private company, owned by the state, but a private company nonetheless.

    It isn't a not for profit company, ie they do intend to make profit on the services they offer.


    So they are in fact.........., a private company, and a for profit company.


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    #588
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,554 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Banjo String wrote: »
    It is a private company, owned by the state, but a private company nonetheless.

    It isn't a not for profit company, ie they do intend to make profit on the services they offer.


    So they are in fact.........., a private company, and a for profit company.

    Curse those devious bastards, how dare they make a profit, don't they know that governments are supposed to run things at a massive loss?


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    #589
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Banjo String wrote: »
    It is a private company, owned by the state, but a private company nonetheless.

    It isn't a not for profit company, ie they do intend to make profit on the services they offer.


    So they are in fact.........., a private company, and a for profit company.

    They won't get any profit from you, you will be using up the water like billyo and paying nothing. And with your professional legal qualifications you will tie them up in knots.


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    #590
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,920 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I see Judas Hogan got his 30 pieces of silver today for punishing his own people to save European banks etc.


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    #591
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I see Judas Hogan got his 30 pieces of silver today for punishing his own people to save European banks etc.

    It's not a done deal yet. He is up against the might of Sinn Fein.


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    #592
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Curse those devious bastards, how dare they make a profit, don't they know that governments are supposed to run things at a massive loss?

    Only a dope would assume such a thing.

    You're not a dope, are you Arthur?


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    #593
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,920 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    It's not a done deal yet. He is up against the might of Sinn Fein.

    Didn't know that.
    What role have SF in this please?


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    #594
    S.O
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭S.O


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Evidence please?

    Youtube search- ( #irishwater The man who cut off the water supply to elderly residents ) where Brians face was named and shamed.


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    #595
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Didn't know that.
    What role have SF in this please?

    They are voting against his ratification and lobbying MEP's from other countries to do the same. So is Luke Flanagan.


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    #596
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,554 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    S.O wrote: »
    Youtube search- ( #irishwater The man who cut off the water supply to elderly residents ) where Brians face was named and shamed.

    You made the claim so it's up to you to provide the evidence.


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    #597
    hadepsx
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭hadepsx


    Why does the letter only ask for 1 pps number. Hence only 1 adult.There's 2 adults in my household.do they think the allowance will stretch that far for 2 adults? Wtf. The letter is very vague.


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    #598
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    hadepsx wrote: »
    Why does the letter only ask for 1 pps number. Hence only 1 adult.There's 2 adults in my household.do they think the allowance will stretch that far for 2 adults? Wtf. The letter is very vague.

    I didn't get one yet. But I already knew it was 30,000 litres per household, regardless of the number of adults and then an allowance for children. So they only need one adult PPS number, whoever wants the bill in their name. You should put a note in with your form going back to point out what is vague on the form.

    http://www.moneyguideireland.com/irish-water-to-issue-application-packs.html

    Homeowners will be asked to provide their PPS number and the PPS number of any children living there if they want to claim these “free” allowances. Only 1 adult PPS number – of the “account holder” – is being requested.


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    #599
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Curse those devious bastards, how dare they make a profit, don't they know that governments are supposed to run things at a massive loss?

    Damn right, and whats with the smart arse reply? Who said they were to operate at a massive loss? just because someone suggested they shouldnt be making a profit?

    What reason is there for them to make a profit? it shouldnt be for profit!
    It apparently isn't covered in the taxes we already pay, although that was the means of payment back in 79? when FF bought their way in the election, by abolishing rates, ultimately this wasnt ever going to be sustainable and I much prefer, the individual costs of services, paid for by a charge individually relative to a charge to cover the cost of the service, where those that conserve can effect a difference in the cost of their utility by lower usage.
    Any at this point any small amount is more than is being taken in previously for water supply.

    So what is your reasoning for suggesting a profit should be made? why shouldn't it be a non profit, to pay for water services?


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    #600
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I see Judas Hogan got his 30 pieces of silver today for punishing his own people to save European banks etc.

    Nothing but the best for a sidling rat.


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    #601
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    S.O wrote: »
    Ogham wrote: »

    Because it says on their website in the small print.

    ( Irish Water. Private Company Limited by Shares,)

    When people read that what other conclusion are people to come to other then Irish water is a private company.

    Wholly owned by the people of Ireland.


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