***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Phoebas

gandalf wrote: »

The thing about the gym is that it is only for the head office staff. The poor smucks manning the call centre lines at Abtran in Cork won't benefit from it and I am fairly positive that they will be contract staff with minimal benefits!

Isn't that an issue for Abtran rather than IW?

eeepaulo

Has anyone heard anything about the first fix scheme?

I heard today on the radio that the details are not finalised so at the moment faults are being paid for by the resident.

Rubber_Soul

Bongalongherb wrote: »

It's all gone to the dogs now with comments like the above.
Oh god, now we have two fitness fanatics derailing this thread.

Bye Bye.

Learn to engage in a debate.

Bongalongherb

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Learn to engage in a debate.

I already have from past 200 comments, read it all and indulge yourself, and try and make sense yourself like the other commenter's have, instead of wasting our time.

Little CuChulainn

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Learn to engage in a debate.

You're wasting your time. Some people consider insult to be a legitimate form of debate and deflection to be a victory.

My name is URL

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Just because the gym turned out to be a waste there doesn't mean it'll be a waste in IW where the demographics, working hours, lifestyles etc may be entirely different

I'm going to go ahead and put all my chips down on the chance that the demographic and lifestyles of the top brasses in IW, will rather closely resemble that of TD's.

Rubber_Soul

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm going to go ahead and put all my chips down on the chance that the demographic and lifestyles of the top brasses in IW, will rather closely resemble that of TD's.

Is it only the top brasses that have access to the gym?

adrian92

Do they only have a gym?

Not a swimming pool, in order to learn about an exercise in water?

My name is URL

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Is it only the top brasses that have access to the gym?

Do canteen staff or cleaners get to use the one in the Dail?

The question is moot. The gym is in the Dublin office, and the majority of IW staff are located outside of Dublin.

Rubber_Soul

My name is URL wrote: »

Do canteen staff or cleaners get to use the one in the Dail?

The question is moot. The gym is in the Dublin office, and the majority of IW staff are located outside of Dublin.

Well that's a fair point so, I don't know how many staff have access to the gym but if it's only top brass then yes it's a waste of money.

My name is URL

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Well that's a fair point so, I don't know how many staff have access to the gym but if it's only top brass then yes it's a waste of money.

Fair dues for not just dismissing the point out of hand like others have done.

fwiw, I want to pay for water usage.. I think it's appropriate and necessary. I just don't want to willfully fund the bloat and exuberance that goes with it all. We've seen what happened with the setting up of the HSE.. and at the moment this project isn't bucking the trend.

Irish Steve

Well. that was about as riveting as watching paint dry.. I've been out most of the day trying to earn some money in order to be able to pay yet another charge that's not got much relationship to ability to pay, and on coming back to this thread, I find long (boring) arguments about the validity or otherwise of having a company gym, and sweet damn all about the issues that matter, which is Irish Water, and why they are unable and incapable of doing the job that is needed.

IW (AS A CONCEPT), forget the specific company that's in place right now HAS to happen in order to take water in all of its aspects out of political control and influence, as political influence and control is what has made the whole water situation the mess and shambles that it has become, with the worst leakage rates in Europe, and questionable quality that has been allowed to continue for way longer and in more areas that should ever have been acceptable.

IW as presently formed and set up is a shambles of a semi state that is about as bad as it gets in terms of accountability, performance, and effectiveness. Its got the wrong sort of people, the wrong ethos from day 1, and based on the obscene sums spent on "consultants", the wrong people making the decisions at the top, spending the sums they have on finding out how to do the job suggests to me that they didn't know how to do it from day 1, so why were they put there in the first place?

IW needs to be changed to meet the requirements, urgently and fundamentally.

Bluntly, so does the political system that made it happen in the first place. FG's arrogance in all of this is incredible, and having watched the video of the political broadcast from 2007 earlier in the thread, at least its clear why Enda is keeping his head down, there's no way he can stand in front of the people with any credibility any longer.

So, where does this thread go now. Clearly its being derailed by diversionary themes, the reason it was getting so much activity is that it was (successfully) highlighting the shortcomings of IW and the political system. Its now being dragged down to arguing about employee fitness and gym usage.

We really do need to concentrate on the fundamental flaws in the way that IW has been structured, and the failings in the operation, as "customers" are not receiving the information or service they are supposed to be getting.

The political aspect of all of this needs to be being highlighted also, as the utter and reprehensible disconnect that exists between the political classes, their masters in both the "civil service" and the golden circle and the rest of the people has to be exposed and the people in those groups who have been so self serving have to be made to account for the deception that has been imposed to the detriment of the people.

_Kaiser_

Irish Steve wrote: »

Bluntly, so does the political system that made it happen in the first place. FG's arrogance in all of this is incredible, and having watched the video of the political broadcast from 2007 earlier in the thread, at least its clear why Enda is keeping his head down, there's no way he can stand in front of the people with any credibility any longer.

Enda lost any credibility the minute he took office and went off to Europe to tell them how we all partied :rolleyes: Since then it's been one fiasco after another with him and his government. It's some achievement to make FF a contender again and simultaneously be worse than his predecessors but that's about all he's managed!

So, where does this thread go now. Clearly its being derailed by diversionary themes, the reason it was getting so much activity is that it was (successfully) highlighting the shortcomings of IW and the political system. Its now being dragged down to arguing about employee fitness and gym usage.

It's being derailed by certain posters who seem determined to deflect attention away from the fundamental flaws within IW - I can only guess 3 motives for this myself (vested interest, begrudgery, or naivety)

But to bring it back on topic (where it belongs), another day brings us another round of IW stories... first up:

It is reported today that the term of the fixed rate on water charges could be extended.

Reports this morning claim the Government is looking at the possibility to allow for more meters to be installed, and to allow people get used to controlling their usage.

Currently, the fixed rate - called an equivalent assessed charge, which varies by how many people occupy the premises - is due to last nine months to the middle of next year. It also applies to homes without a meter.
It is understood an extension is being seriously considered, although it is not yet known how long it could be.

At this point I don't think anything less than a complete wind-down of IW, firing of the senior staff, and a rethink of the whole notion will be accepted by a people that seem to be getting angrier by the day over this.

Banjo String

Water conservation out.


Seat conservation in. :cool:

Barely There

Irish Steve wrote: »

IW (AS A CONCEPT), forget the specific company that's in place right now HAS to happen in order to take water in all of its aspects out of political control and influence, as political influence and control is what has made the whole water situation the mess and shambles that it has become, with the worst leakage rates in Europe, and questionable quality that has been allowed to continue for way longer and in more areas that should ever have been acceptable.

Yes indeed.

Taking capital funding for infrastructure needs out of the political realms has got to happen.

For too long our infrastructure has suffered from chronic under-investment. The current situation where decisions as to how much to invest in infrastructure when forming the budget every year is crazy. Govts would rather throw the electorate some money to improve their short-term re-election prospects than invest the necessary money on the Capital budget, which would benefit us all as a society in the long term.

The concept of having a separate body which would sit outside the political sphere) to fund, administer, monitor and invest in water infrastructure ( is fantastic. But, the communication of this idea and some of the decision that have been made has been truly woeful.

Infoanon

IW are to be given more powers to ensure compliance according to the latest govt leaks (excuse the pun), watch this one play out today.

_Kaiser_

Infoanon wrote: »

IW are to be given more powers to ensure compliance according to the latest govt leaks (excuse the pun), watch this one play out today.

If that turns out to be true (2nd last paragraph):

Another problem is that water charges are not administered by the Revenue Commissioners, as is the property tax.
Irish Water is therefore lacking the fear factor the Revenue provides, and some Coalition sources say it may be given more powers to improve compliance.

... it'll only validate the thing I've been saying about IW being moved under the department of Finance during the front bench reshuffle.

Political suicide though if they attempt to get Revenue involved at this stage (like they did with the LPT) to intimidate people. Government could collapse within days.

(Actually, on 2nd thought - bring it on! )

Barely There

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Political suicide though if they attempt to get Revenue involved at this stage (like they did with the LPT) to intimidate people. Government could collapse within days.

Doubt it.

The majority of the population who pay their taxes would view it as regrettable but unsurprising that a big stick is required to get the leeches in our society to pay their fair share.

_Kaiser_

Barely There wrote: »

Doubt it.

The majority of the population who pay their taxes would view it as regrettable but unsurprising that a big stick is required to get the leeches in our society to pay their fair share.

Ah the old "divide and conquer" approach again?

The "leeches" you refer to are a small proportion of the overall population (certainly not everyone on the dole as is often trotted out/inferred here) and they won't pay it anyway OR Joan's department will ensure they're exempt in some manner

But despite that, everyone in this country pays taxes through VAT. In fact, proportionally more of an unemployed person's income goes back into the local economy and exchequer coffers than someone whose working.. in short, I don't know anyone on €188 a week who's putting a few hundred away in savings every month.

By all means though continue with the lazy (and inaccurate) stereotyping

Barely There

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

By all means though continue with the lazy (and inaccurate) stereotyping

Tell you what.
I'll continue referring to people who won't pay their taxes as leeches and you can continue building strawman arguments.

_Kaiser_

Barely There wrote: »

Tell you what.
I'll continue referring to people who won't pay their taxes as leeches and you can continue building strawman arguments.

Ah the oft used Strawman response to look clever while not addressing the point raised. Off ya go so. Side note though - this is supposedly a UTILITY, not a TAX (or at least that what we keep getting told)

Barely There

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah the oft used Strawman response to look clever while not addressing the point raised. Off ya go so. Side note though - this is supposedly a UTILITY, not a TAX (or at least that what we keep getting told)

You don't have one.

Barely There

Barely There wrote: »

Doubt it.

The majority of the population who pay their taxes would view it as regrettable but unsurprising that a big stick is required to get the leeches in our society to pay their fair share.

A stick to ensure compliance, or a stick to ensure that their croney waster mates keep their jobs on the board, bonus culture and billions to spend on consultancy due to their complete lack of knowledge and competency? To paint this as a straight issue of paying a 'tax' or not is completely disingenuous

_Kaiser_

Barely There wrote: »

You don't have one.

Sorry, I'm too busy to engage in silly tit for tat with lazy stereotyping, deflecting, and claims of strawmanning. It does seem to be the default tactic of the pro-side in this thread though.

As I said, work away though

Barely There

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

A stick to ensure compliance, or a stick to ensure that their croney waster mates keep their jobs on the board, bonus culture and billions to spend on consultancy due to their complete lack of knowledge and competency? To paint this as a straight issue of paying a 'tax' or not is completely disingenuous

Amazing the way some people always have a handy reason as to why they think they can justify not paying their tax.:rolleyes:

Barely There

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Sorry, I'm too busy to engage in silly tit for tat with lazy stereotyping, deflecting, and claims of strawmanning. It does seem to be the default tactic of the pro-side in this thread though.

As I said, work away though

Delicious irony.

_Kaiser_

Barely There wrote: »

Delicious irony.

Says the man who's giving out about "leeches" not paying their taxes when referring to a utility bill from a company that even the Minister involved in setting it up says is a disaster :rolleyes:

Chance The Fapper

Barely There wrote: »

Amazing the way some people always have a handy reason as to why they think they can justify not paying their tax.:rolleyes:

It's not a tax

Highflyer13

Barely There wrote: »

Amazing the way some people always have a handy reason as to why they think they can justify not paying their tax.:rolleyes:

So you are basically saying water charges is another stealth tax being hidden as a utility?

Banjo String

Highflyer13 wrote: »

So you are basically saying water charges is another stealth tax being hidden as a utility?

I think he's just saying we're all 'leeches' . That's his buzz word.