***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

turnikett1

Curly Judge wrote: »

Since when is paying for what you consume an injustice?

Paying for the debts of bankers fúck ups under the guise of a new utility is injustice. You must be seriously daft if you think the reason FG introduced the water tax is because its only fair and just that people are charged for paying water.

Iwasfrozen

Tony EH wrote: »

Ummm, When looking at "Nations" as monolithic entities, it may look like it's ostensibly shrinking, but on a people level, it's widening, especially in the west.

But it's not, hundreds of millions of people are being lifted out of abject poverty in India, Indonesia and Bangladesh. All without the aid of a welfare state.

GDP per capita is growing 13 times faster in India than the UK.

Iwasfrozen

cajonlardo wrote: »

If there really were 100,000 subversives they would have marched into Gvt Buildings long ago without a shot fired.

Not a chance. The gardai and army have a duty to protect the government.

BoJack Horseman

turnikett1 wrote: »

Paying for the debts of bankers fúck ups under the guise of a new utility is injustice. You must be seriously daft if you think the reason FG introduced the water tax is because its only fair and just that people are charged for paying water.

Run the maths on that one.

The government spend about €54bn a year.
They will borrow an additional €7bn to cover national debt repayments.... Of which €1.6bn is promissory note (bondholder) repayments.

People are justifiably angry at that injustice, however when it makes up around 2.6% of total government expenditure, every tax & fee ain't about the bloody bondholders.

EazyD

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Run the maths on that one.

The government spend about €54bn a year.
They will borrow an additional €7bn to cover national debt repayments.... Of which €1.6bn is promissory note (bondholder) repayments.

People are justifiably angry at that injustice, however when it makes up around 2.6% of total government expenditure, every tax & fee ain't about the bloody bondholders.

Makes you wonder then why they haven't eased tax takes in the recent budget on middle-earners. More-so self employed tax contributors who are effectively entitled to nothing should things turn south.

BoJack Horseman

EazyD wrote: »

Makes you wonder then why they haven't eased tax takes in the recent budget on middle-earners.

The income point before upper rate kicks in was raised by €1000

More-so self employed tax contributors who are effectively entitled to nothing should things turn south.

True dat.

padraig47

We should pay for our water, but I am opposed to any possibility of privatisation of Irish Water. I cannot understand how Dr Tierney was appointed CEO, as he showed his incompetence previously with the Eyre Square refit in. Galway, before going to Dublin.

Tony EH

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

But it's not, hundreds of millions of people are being lifted out of abject poverty in India, Indonesia and Bangladesh. All without the aid of a welfare state.

GDP per capita is growing 13 times faster in India than the UK.

And yet the lower castes find themselves increasingly without and looking at the upper castes getting rich.

Simply looking at a GDP figure or interpreting countries as monolithic entities is not looking at the whole picture.

Tony EH

padraig47 wrote: »

We should pay for our water, but I am opposed to any possibility of privatisation of Irish Water. I cannot understand how Dr Tierney was appointed CEO, as he showed his incompetence previously with the Eyre Square refit in. Galway, before going to Dublin.

Maybe he knows somebody.

BoJack Horseman

zerks wrote: »

Have a look at what's happening in Detroit when the provision of water was handed over to another entity rather than the LA there.27,000 cut off for non payment of fees that have skyrocketed in the past few years in one of the poorest areas of the USA.

Another city in another continent is not an inevitable harbinger of Ireland's water future.
(And Ireland on its worst day is ran far better than Detroit)

Ireland used to have a fair way for the payment of services,you pay tax & the money pays for water,roads,etc. Now it's pay tax then pay to live in your house,pay for refuse collection & now pay for water.

Again, the 'some paying for all' model we have for public services is the opposite of fair

If the much hated USC was out towards services then we'd see no outcry as people would say "fair enough",so far for all these extra charges nothing has improved & councils are still going with the begging bowl for funding.

When the gov were running a €12bn primary deficit in 2010/11, guess what.... the hole had to be plugged.

Imagine if all the money wasted setting up this quango was divided out to LA's around Ireland and a certain amount ringfenced for water network upgrades.

Indeed.
The gov spent about €240m on water infrastructure in 2013.
IW has cost about €180m..... So about 9 months worth of repairs.... Then its back to square 1.

Cantona's Collars

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Another city in another continent is not an inevitable harbinger of Ireland's water future.

But didn't IW use a business model from a different country? Kinda puts paid to that statement of yours.

Iwasfrozen

Tony EH wrote: »

And yet the lower castes find themselves increasingly without and looking at the upper castes getting rich.

Simply looking at a GDP figure or interpreting countries as monolithic entities is not looking at the whole picture.

Like gini coefficient? According to the world bank.

Gini coefficient India: 33.4
Gini coefficient Ireland: 34.3

source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

And Indian gdp per capita is growing 13 times faster than UK gdp per capita.

The point I'm making is the income disparity of the world is decreasing. In relative terms the west is getting poorer and we may soon find ourselves unable to pay for our welfare state in the near future.

We simply don't have the energy capacity required to give everyone a western standard of living and short of something game changing like nuclear fusion (and even then it depends on the form of the technology) we never will.

BoJack Horseman

zerks wrote: »

But didn't IW use a business model from a different country? Kinda puts paid to that statement of yours.

No it doesn't.

If I cared to find a city anywhere on earth with privatised water, that worked well with high customer satisfaction... then your doom prophecy is also scuppered.

And its moot anyway,
IW isn't private & only one party has expressed an interest in making it so.

Rubberchikken

How come enda's able to ask 'tough' questions regarding sinn fein today in the dail but can't or won't speak up and make IW explain themselves.

I have great sympathy for that woman making the rape allegation but enda is only playing along listening to her to show his 'compassionate' side and detract from the crap that's going on.

BoJack Horseman

Rubberchikken wrote: »

How come enda's able to ask 'tough' questions regarding sinn fein today in the dail but can't or won't speak up and make IW explain themselves.

What would you want him to say?

Highflyer13

Rubberchikken wrote: »

How come enda's able to ask 'tough' questions regarding sinn fein today in the dail but can't or won't speak up and make IW explain themselves.

I have great sympathy for that woman making the rape allegation but enda is only playing along listening to her to show his 'compassionate' side and detract from the crap that's going on.

The stuff with Sinn Fein is happening for 2 reasons.

1) To take attention away from the IW farce.
2) To discredit SF as they make some serious gains in the polls.

The public can see right through it. FG probably have a few more of these cards to play before the 2016 GE. And I am not a SF supporter before someone accuses me of being one. Unfortunately this governments actions have put me in a position of having no political party to support. I suspect I am not the only one.

Highflyer13

Highflyer13 wrote: »

The stuff with Sinn Fein is happening for 2 reasons.

1) To take attention away from the IW farce.
2) To discredit SF as they make some serious gains in the polls.

The public can see right through it. FG probably have a few more of these cards to play before the 2016 GE. And I am not a SF supporter before someone accuses me of being one. Unfortunately this governments actions have put me in a position of having no political party to support. I suspect I am not the only one.

Anything that can be done to ensure SF get as few people as possible elected can only be a good thing.

listermint

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

Anything that can be done to ensure SF get as few people as possible elected can only be a good thing.

Not in relation to the current matter at hand. Enda can ask his questions another day. We havent and wont go away Enda. We want answers, November 1st 2014

Tony EH

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Like gini coefficient? According to the world bank.

Gini coefficient India: 33.4
Gini coefficient Ireland: 34.3

Again, you're looking at single figures and attributing that to a hunky dory outcome.

Whereas, on the ground, as it were, that figure is not applicable simply to millions of people. In the case of India and her caste system, there are incredible numbers of people who will never rise out of their impoverished situation because of accidents of birth.

BoJack Horseman

listermint wrote: »

November 1st 2014

Oooh.... Foreshadowing!

The real date though is May 2016, when the people decide the next government.

Will the SF privatisation plan prevail or the SP/AAA plan to eliminate taxes by defaulting on national debt?

Time will tell.

listermint

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Oooh.... Foreshadowing!

The real date though is May 2016, when the people decide the next government.

Will the SF privatisation plan prevail or the SP/AAA plan to eliminate taxes by defaulting on national debt?

Time will tell.

See with that response, most normal people can see straight through your agenda.

What the hell have SF or AAA got to do with my post.

November 1st is a day for normal people (me) to get out and show how dissatisfied we are with your policies horseman. Because it appears you back pretty much anything that comes out of the government mouth. Sure im a scrounger for not paying taxes.



Its my opinion solely but im pretty confident ive paid / pay more tax than you and im the farthest from a scrounger that i could get.

Shiranui

listermint wrote: »

Its my opinion solely but im pretty confident ive paid / pay more tax than you and im the farthest from a scrounger that i could get.

Bojack Horseman pays taxes in Hollywood.

Iwasfrozen

Tony EH wrote: »

Again, you're looking at single figures and attributing that to a hunky dory outcome.

Whereas, on the ground, as it were, that figure is not applicable simply to millions of people. In the case of India and her caste system, there are incredible numbers of people who will never rise out of their impoverished situation because of accidents of birth.

Never rise out of poverty? That's obviously not true since hundreds of millions have been lifted out of abject poverty since the end of WWII.

The income distribution of India is similar ro Ireland but GDP per capita is growing roughly 13 times faster. That points to a rapidly growing middle class. People whose grandparents would have once been in hopless poverty now make up that middle class.

Similar story in Bangladesh and Indonesia.

Anatom

Some of the "debate" on this forum is laughable. Many of you should be ashamed of yourselves as you're doing absolutely nothing to inform anyone about the IW debate at all

I'm surprised a Mod hasn't stepped in at this stage to be honest...

BoJack Horseman

listermint wrote: »

What the hell have SF or AAA got to do with my post.

Balance.
Lest people forget there are far worse choices out there than the current gov.

November 1st is a day for normal people (me) to get out and show how dissatisfied we are with your policies horseman.

Flattered, but Bojack ain't king yet.
I can't take credit.

Because it appears you back pretty much anything that comes out of the government mouth.

I back some, I oppose some.
Sure beats hysterical & impotent internet anger!

Sure im a scrounger for not paying taxes.

Booo!

im pretty confident ive paid / pay more tax than you and im the farthest from a scrounger that i could get

Scrounger or hero of the proletariat.... Make up your mind!

If you've been in the labour force longer than 5 years, then yes you probably have, what with college still being a recent memory.... But, you know, give me time.

listermint

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Balance.
Lest people forget there are far worse choices out there than the current gov.



Flattered, but Bojack ain't king yet.
I can't take credit.



I back some, I oppose some.
Sure beats hysterical & impotent internet anger!



Booo!



Scrounger or hero of the proletariat.... Make up your mind!

If you've been in the labour force longer than 5 years, then yes you probably have, what with college still being a recent memory.... But, you know, give me time.

huh ?

You do realise that Nov 1st .... you have to em turn up in person.


right ?


Its not a keyboard thing, that you are having limited success at.

Banjo String

Anatom wrote: »

Some of the "debate" on this forum is laughable. Many of you should be ashamed of yourselves as you're doing absolutely nothing to inform anyone about the IW debate at all

I'm surprised a Mod hasn't stepped in at this stage to be honest...

1, any particular posts in particular you'd like to point towards? Plenty of posts are 'informative' ref Irish Water, their bonuses and shambles of a set up definitely needs to be brought to the publics attention.

2, did you use the report button on any post you feel goes too far off topic, or isn't to your liking?

3, back seat modding doesn't suit you.

Satriale

Anatom wrote: »

Some of the "debate" on this forum is laughable. Many of you should be ashamed of yourselves as you're doing absolutely nothing to inform anyone about the IW debate at all

I'm surprised a Mod hasn't stepped in at this stage to be honest...

What is After Hours?
After hours is the place to come on boards where general discussion can be light-hearted. The aim here is to have a bit of a laugh, a bit of a chat and not to piss anybody off while doing so.


Politics

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>

Tony EH

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Never rise out of poverty? That's obviously not true since hundreds of millions have been lifted out of abject poverty since the end of WWII.

The income distribution of India is similar ro Ireland but GDP per capita is growing roughly 13 times faster. That points to a rapidly growing middle class. People whose grandparents would have once been in hopless poverty now make up that middle class.

Similar story in Bangladesh and Indonesia.

You need to read a little about India's caste system in order to understand my point.

There are "levels" of people in India, in their millions, who have never and will never even smell anything of their nation's wealth because of their birth.

Overall poverty in India may have been declining over the decades, by how far reaching that is remains debatable.

Anatom

Banjo String wrote: »

1, any particular posts in particular you'd like to point towards? Plenty of posts are 'informative' ref Irish Water, their bonuses and shambles of a set up definitely needs to be brought to the publics attention.

2, did you use the report button on any post you feel goes too far off topic, or isn't to your liking?

3, back seat modding doesn't suit you.

1. Fair enough point but I'm not going to trawl through the morass to find examples as they are far too numerous to pull out and I'd be here all night. Some, in my opinion, of the posts have been informative perhaps. Although I'd suggest most of the information has come from online / print media rather than any new insights being brought to bear here. The bonuses, or performance-related pay, or whatever you want to call it, are in the public domain, but so too is the fact that none have been paid to any IW staff member yet at all.

2. No, I didn't. I am just tired of seeing post after post of people quoting each other's misquotes with people accusing each other of one agenda or the other, that's all.

3. I didn't realise I was back seat anything. I was trying to contribute.