***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Banjo String

RobertKK wrote: »

I pay allmost of those taxes and others not mentioned and had always had to pay for water,.

It is not by choice that I am not on the public system. The nearest public water pipe is miles away.

In rural Ireland for most, you have to provide your own water, it doesn't matter what taxes you paid.
There was never a tax credit every year for the cost of providing one's own water supply.

My LPT will be low as my house is situated next to farm buildings, is very old, would cost a fortune to make more modern - be cheaper to knock it down and rebuild...but there are nice houses near me that will be paying a lot as houses in my area have sold for over 400k due to the very scenic location of where I live and proximity to Kilkenny.

Rural Ireland is oft left to fend for itself, while in urban areas they have everything handed to them - public water, much better broadband, footpaths, lighting, transport, gas...
We don't get many services where I live apart form the postman delivering the letters, and the local council filling the potholes.

Would you care to address my point about the previous (and current) water departments, pump houses reservoirs, and who paid for them?

Imo, it was tax payers.


How have you reached the conclusion water was free until now?

Bob24

UCDVet wrote: »

Just got a letter in the mail. Honest question - what happens if I do nothing? I never agreed to pay for water, after all. Hypothetically speaking, if I toss it in the trash, what happens?

I'm renting an apartment.
Wife's name is on lease.
Wife has no job.

Letter was sent to 'Occupant'

If you do nothing they won't bother coming after you but will instead send the bills to your landlord who will be legally liable for them (legislation states that if no occupier is identified for the property, the landlord is automatically liable for the charges, and IW has the list of all property owners from the LPT register ... so going after your landlord is the easy option for them).

Unless your landlord is happy to pay for your water it probably means that you will be forced to register as I guess you don't want to have a fight with them over this.

In summery, there probably won't be "civil disobedience" amongst tenants because IW always has the option to go after landlords - and even landlords who refuse paying for their own residence will probably think differently when it comes to covering up for their tenants' disobedience.

RobertKK

Banjo String wrote: »

Would you care to address my point about the previous (and current) water departments, pump houses reservoirs, and who paid for them?

Imo, it was tax payers.


How have you reached the conclusion water was free until now?

It was paid for by borrowings, taxes from everyone including those who do not get a public water supply.

It was unjust that some had to pay for their own water supply and have taxes they pay going towards paying for unlimited water supply to be free for others.

In the past there was rates and that helped pay for it, they were abolished and one could argue that since then borrowed money paid for the water and during the boom, property sourced taxes paid for it.

lazeedaisy

Banjo String wrote: »

As for your situation ref paying for a private water scheme, this is due to the fact you live in a rural part of the country, not connected to the mains (by choice I presume?)

no one in a rural area has a choice, you need to be sure of your facts, do you think we have a choice and people CHOOSE to pay over not paying, we have been paying years.

Banjo String

RobertKK wrote: »

It was paid for by borrowings, taxes from everyone including those who do not get a public water supply.

It was unjust that some had to pay for their own water supply and have taxes they pay going towards paying for unlimited water supply to be free for others.

In the past there was rates and that helped pay for it, they were abolished and one could argue that since then borrowed money paid for the water and during the boom, property sourced taxes paid for it.

Ok, so it wasn't free. Fair enough.

Yes, it probably was annoying having to pay into a group scheme/private well, but as the many pro tax folk on these threads will verify, we seldom have a choice where our taxes go. Ask anyone who has never needed the hospital, emergency services, check list benefit etc.

lazeedaisy wrote: »

no one in a rural area has a choice, you need to be sure of your facts, do you think we have a choice and people CHOOSE to pay over not paying, we have been paying years.

Well I think you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick here tbh.

My (by choice) post was in reference to the many rural dwellers who chose to build or buy in said locations.

I myself am originally from a rural location, though in our case we were connected to a mains.

Ogham

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Only 50% higher than the 240 avergae charge. Thats a surprise. :rolleyes:

That government 240 average is still supposed to be true. There are a lot of single households that will keep the average low

RobertKK

Banjo String wrote: »

Ok, so it wasn't free. Fair enough.

Yes, it probably was annoying having to pay into a group scheme/private well, but as the many pro tax folk on these threads will verify, we seldom have a choice where our taxes go. Ask anyone who has never needed the hospital, emergency services, check list benefit etc.



Well I think you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick here tbh.

My (by choice) post was in reference to the many rural dwellers who chose to build or buy in said locations.

I myself am originally from a rural location, though in our case we were connected to a mains.

It was free as you didn't pay any extra subsidy for it, otherwise peopel who pay for their water would be getting money paid to them for the cost of water they have to supply themselves.
It was borrowing more so that paid for the water, then when we had a budget surplus it was property based taxes.

My house has been where it is for hundreds of years, it is where my family going back generations have lived.
Water was always paid for here, irrespective of what taxes one paid. No point crying it is double taxation, one would have no water if they did.

Ogham

frostypants wrote: »

I have since April and been taking readings. I'm using on average 800 litres a month so I might not have to pay anything as I'm well under the 30000 allowance

800l a month seems very very low. That's just 26 litres a day! A single toilet flush uses about 8l - even a a quick shower would use 20l and is you must drink some too. Are you very sparing with water ?

dxhound2005

Ogham wrote: »

800l a month seems very very low. That's just 26 litres a day! A single toilet flush uses about 8l - even a a quick shower would use 20l and is you must drink some too. Are you very sparing with water ?

They might have one of these. And if they live alone and are out at work they might need (or decide) to flush only twice or three times a day. There is really no need to flush every time in my opinion. I have a Dual Flush and I think it uses a lot less than 4 litres on the half flush.

Dual-Flush Toilets

Dual-Flush toilets are a type of HET with a full flush and a half flush capability. The average flush volume of a modern dual flush toilet is 1.1 gallons (4 liters) or less.

shruikan2553

lorweld wrote: »

Sorry haven't read the whole thread. We haven't received our form yet but one thing is puzzling me. I live in a block of 6 apartments. There are no meters, so we'll be charged the "set rate". My question is what's to stop me lying & say there is only one person living here (there is two of us) & getting a cheaper rate. They only ask for one pps number. Or will they be able to check revenue or dept of social protection for details of who's living where.

Im wondering this myself. Theres more people than bedrooms, then how will they even cut off my water? Im in an apartment building with more than 50 apartments.

cocoman

Ogham wrote: »

800l a month seems very very low. That's just 26 litres a day! A single toilet flush uses about 8l - even a a quick shower would use 20l and is you must drink some too. Are you very sparing with water ?

That's what I was thinking aswell. Maybe it was supposed to be 8000 l per month. For the past few months we (2A & 2C) have been using an average of 300 l per day.

UnitedIrishman

Ogham wrote: »

800l a month seems very very low. That's just 26 litres a day! A single toilet flush uses about 8l - even a a quick shower would use 20l and is you must drink some too. Are you very sparing with water ?

Judging on a reading (unless I'm reading it completely wrong) over a week in our home with 3 people, we used almost 1000L. Which is around 50L litres a day each. I'd easily drink 3-4L, shower once a day and maybe flush the toilet max twice/three times a day. We do the usual water saving stuff like knocking off taps when brushing teeth, only flush when it's really required etc but when you spread stuff like washing machine usage and dishwashing usage - it's still looking it's going to be next to impossible for us to stay below that usage.

I wouldn't mind if the allowances were reasonable but it's like they're saying 'right we're going to fleece ye right from the start!'

Just doing the maths there and even if it was say 10c per litre after the allowance it'll cost our house roughly €2200 a year extra. Not a fear in ****.

dxhound2005

lorweld wrote: »

Sorry haven't read the whole thread. We haven't received our form yet but one thing is puzzling me. I live in a block of 6 apartments. There are no meters, so we'll be charged the "set rate". My question is what's to stop me lying & say there is only one person living here (there is two of us) & getting a cheaper rate. They only ask for one pps number. Or will they be able to check revenue or dept of social protection for details of who's living where.

On the forms it states “ It is an offence under the Water Services Act, 2007 (as amended) to knowingly provide false or misleading information in this form and a person who does so is liable to a fine on summary conviction. By completing and returning this form, I declare that to the best of my knowledge all of the information provided is true and accurate. If I have confirmed that I am connected to the public water main and/or the public sewer then I declare that I am a customer of Irish Water, otherwise I am declaring that I am not a customer of Irish Water. Where I have declared I am a customer of Irish Water, I am confirming I have the authority to open an account at the premises and that I am liable for water charges at the premises. I confirm that I will advise Irish Water if there is any material change to the information provided in this form”

cocoman

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Judging on a reading (unless I'm reading it completely wrong) over a week in our home with 3 people, we used almost 1000L. Which is around 50L litres a day each. I'd easily drink 3-4L, shower once a day and maybe flush the toilet max twice/three times a day. We do the usual water saving stuff like knocking off taps when brushing teeth, only flush when it's really required etc but when you spread stuff like washing machine usage and dishwashing usage - it's still looking it's going to be next to impossible for us to stay below that usage.

I wouldn't mind if the allowances were reasonable but it's like they're saying 'right we're going to fleece ye right from the start!'

Just doing the maths there and even if it was say 10c per litre after the allowance it'll cost our house roughly €2200 a year extra. Not a fear in ****.

1000 l per week is very good for 3 people. If one of the 3 is under 18 I have worked out your yearly bill at just under €10 for the year. This is also based on the assumption that you are not connected to the public sewer. If all 3 persons are over 18 the bill will be €54. If connected to a public sewer then those amounts should be doubled.

Seriously, why would anyone have to pay for this?
https://www.facebook.com/galwayindependent/photos/a.297695087185.158173.288313132185/10152267700177186/?type=1&theater

2 stroke

Recieved this form today, most of my neighbours have received theirs too. There's not one house within 3 miles connected to public water or sewers. They have no idea where their pipes go.
I can imagine the response if my employer sent out letters to random non customers informing them that if they didn't return the forms suitably completed that they would be billed an ammount based on the average customers bill.
Could compliance set a precedent whereby this could become a standard business practice.

dxhound2005

2 stroke wrote: »

Recieved this form today, most of my neighbours have received theirs too. There's not one house within 3 miles connected to public water or sewers. They have no idea where their pipes go.
I can imagine the response if my employer sent out letters to random non customers informing them that if they didn't return the forms suitably completed that they would be billed an ammount based on the average customers bill.
Could compliance set a precedent whereby this could become a standard business practice.

Be sure to let us know whenever the rest of your neighbours get their forms. A very close knit community obviously.

UnitedIrishman

cocoman wrote: »

1000 l per week is very good for 3 people. If one of the 3 is under 18 I have worked out your yearly bill at just under €10 for the year. This is also based on the assumption that you are not connected to the public sewer. If all 3 persons are over 18 the bill will be €54. If connected to a public sewer then those amounts should be doubled.

Could you explain the breakdown of this please? It's 3 adults.

geeksauce

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Judging on a reading (unless I'm reading it completely wrong) over a week in our home with 3 people, we used almost 1000L. Which is around 50L litres a day each. I'd easily drink 3-4L, shower once a day and maybe flush the toilet max twice/three times a day. We do the usual water saving stuff like knocking off taps when brushing teeth, only flush when it's really required etc but when you spread stuff like washing machine usage and dishwashing usage - it's still looking it's going to be next to impossible for us to stay below that usage.

I wouldn't mind if the allowances were reasonable but it's like they're saying 'right we're going to fleece ye right from the start!'

Just doing the maths there and even if it was say 10c per litre after the allowance it'll cost our house roughly €2200 a year extra. Not a fear in ****.

It wont be 10c per litre after the allowances, commercial water is currently 1.21 per 1000 litres so I would imagine it will be much closer to this than 10c per litre.

Ogham

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Could you explain the breakdown of this please? It's 3 adults.

HAve a look here for figures http://www.moneyguideireland.com/figures-for-water-charges-released.html
If you're using 1000 a week = 52000 a year - call it 60000.
Knock off the 30000 free allowance that leaves 30000 = 30 cubic meters at 4.88 each = €146

Every 1000l above 30000 will cost €4.88 or €2.44 if you have your own septic tant etc

Ghost Buster

Many aspects of Irish water dont add up but the one bugging me just now is the estimated bills for homes they havent yet metered. If you are paying for a consumable product and by quantity consumed how is it fair that they estimate your consumption just cos they havent got their act together.?
Can Tesco just start letting you out of the store without paying and then send you bill based on a guess?
My home isnt metered and being a bit of an auld hippy i have been conserving water for years. Im well below the calculated average but will end up paying for what i dont use based on their guess.
Arse i say!!!!!:mad:

shedweller

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Many aspects of Irish water dont add up but the one bugging me just now is the estimated bills for homes they havent yet metered. If you are paying for a consumable product and by quantity consumed how is it fair that they estimate your consumption just cos they havent got their act together.?
Can Tesco just start letting you out of the store without paying and then send you bill based on a guess?
My home isnt metered and being a bit of an auld hippy i have been conserving water for years. Im well below the calculated average but will end up paying for what i dont use based on their guess.
Arse i say!!!!!:mad:

Because it has less to do with water itself and more to do with using water as a way of getting yet more money out of us. It'll end up like the motor tax in that when we all economise on the water with fancy low flow taps etc, the price of water will magically go up!
Because its not about the water.

cocoman

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Many aspects of Irish water dont add up but the one bugging me just now is the estimated bills for homes they havent yet metered. If you are paying for a consumable product and by quantity consumed how is it fair that they estimate your consumption just cos they havent got their act together.?
Can Tesco just start letting you out of the store without paying and then send you bill based on a guess?
My home isnt metered and being a bit of an auld hippy i have been conserving water for years. Im well below the calculated average but will end up paying for what i dont use based on their guess.
Arse i say!!!!!:mad:

Until the meter is installed you will get bills based on an estimated usage. However once metered, readings will be taken for a few months and your actual usage worked out. This figure will then be compared to the estimates that had been used. You may well find that a credit will then be given if actual usage is less than estimated (or vice versa if actual is greater than estimated).

Ogham

cocoman wrote: »

Until the meter is installed you will get bills based on an estimated usage. However once metered, readings will be taken for a few months and your actual usage worked out. This figure will then be compared to the estimates that had been used. You may well find that a credit will then be given if actual usage is less than estimated (or vice versa if actual is greater than estimated).

There are no plans by Irish Water to claim back extra money if your metered usage works out more than the assessed charge.
They do propose to credit people if they use less than the assessed usage after metering - but the refunds will only apply if you were on unmetered charges for 6 months or more and refundswon't be calculated until you havee been on metered charges for 12 months!

Banjo String

From Enda Kenny himself.

“I agree with you in sense that people would be very reluctant to sign up to a blank cheque without knowing what they’re getting there,” said the Taoiseach.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/s-taoiseach-say-irish-water-pps-number-173206899.html

Yet many on this thread think anyone being suspicious of this, must be off their rockers.

They want me to sign a blank cheque, and rubber stamp it with my Pps number?

They can whistle for it.

Rucking_Fetard

Banjo String wrote: »

.

Are you paying the property tax?

Banjo String

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

Are you paying the property tax?

Yeah.

I need the tax clearance cert , but also have a PAYE job, and they (Revenue) were about to deduct at source.
But Irish Water can't rely on Revenue to make me 'comply' on this one. Not yet anyway.

dashcamdanny

JUst checked my meter. 104,000 liters since 16/11/13 when fitted.

Much shouting at my family .

2 adults 1 child.

Satriale

dashcamdanny wrote: »

JUst checked my meter. 104,000 liters since 16/11/13 when fitted.

Much shouting at my family .

2 adults 1 child.

Dont shout at the family, shout at Phil Hogan!!!

dashcamdanny

Satriale wrote: »

Dont shout at the family, shout at Phil Hogan!!!

To be completely honest. Im not really against water charges as long as the money is used correctly to repair and upgrade the system,and the government does not increase it every year to balance the revenue books.

But the fact it, they will misuse the money and they will shaft us in the future. Enda lied his head off and got away with it, fooled voters and wormed his way to leader
. I expect nothing but the same from the slimy pric k.

At the moment, the allowance is to small and even if I make a reduction, (which I will) I will still be paying quite alot.