***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

hju6

Barely There wrote: »

It's known as inflation.

So the price should decrease then ?

BoJack Horseman

FREETV wrote: »

Extortion more like it.

Is it "FREETV" or 'irishfreeview"?

Hard to keep track.

fxotoole

FREETV wrote: »

The prices will keep increasing annually after 2016 if it is allowed to remain.

Any solid proof of this, or is it just more speculation and fearmongering from the anti-water charges side as usual?

Barely There

FREETV wrote: »

True. The gouging b******s milking us dry.

Shock news - but the price IW are going to be charging you initially is nowhere near the cost of maintaining and improving the current water network.
The shortfall will be made up by Government.

Ideally IW will increase it's price year-on-year until it can cover the cost.

Finally we'll have a situation where a dedicated body is charged with running and funding our vital water network and we no longer have to depend on the whims of various Finance ministers who are more interested in buying votes than fixing leaks.

Irish Steve

Barely There wrote: »

Shock news - but the price IW are going to be charging you initially is nowhere near the cost of maintaining and improving the current water network.
The shortfall will be made up by Government.

Ideally IW will increase it's price year-on-year until it can cover the cost.

Finally we'll have a situation where a dedicated body is charged with running and funding our vital water network and we no longer have to depend on the whims of various Finance ministers who are more interested in buying votes than fixing leaks.

I'd be a lot happier with this concept if it wasn't being run by cronies of the past and present incumbents of Leinster House. Bluntly, the private sector would be more efficient than the present people who are supposedly dealing with the issues, but the problem with the private sector is shareholder dividends.

Another issue that's not been mentioned recently, business pays (big time) for water and waste treatment, is that revenue stream being directed towards Irish Water, or is it only domestic "income" that they will be receiving? Given the split between domestic and business usage, the money from the business users will be substantial, and should be being used to operate the water network.

if it wasn't so serious, the phrase Irish Solution to an Irish Problem would be so appropriate.

Perhaps we'd have been better if FF hadn't signed up to the IMF/Troika (Straight jacket) deal, as they'd have come in and cleaned house without fear or favour, which would have meant that things could have been properly reconstructed, restructured and recovered without all the political baggage and Golden circle issues that are still so obviously in the way now.

FREETV

A brief discussion about all aspects of Irish Water and water charges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4J40kGXhpk#t=161

papu

FREETV wrote: »

A brief discussion about all aspects of Irish Water and water charges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4J40kGXhpk#t=161

Gotta love one sided interviews.

Going Forward

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If you don't like the product then don't use it.

Sure.

FREETV

Here are the lying gobshi**s once again.
Do not pay for water and hold strong and steadfast and flush these Tyrants down the toilet where they belong.
Don't pay twice for water and waste water treatment
services.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tSqNUD47Vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHN18Rzhk_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mzNHwCG00Q

There should be Direct Democracy in Ireland to vote whether they want water charges and Irish Water or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9a9G0JvxAY
March out of respect and honour the achievements of Michael Collins.

FREETV

FREETV wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mzNHwCG00Q

So this is where Mr Video learned his trade. "The cheek of you", "Go and Jump" "The neck of you" "You're a Millionaire" HAHAHA

Going Forward

fxotoole wrote: »

Any solid proof of this, or is it just more speculation and fearmongering from the anti-water charges side as usual?

Try researching the subject you're posting on.

In particular, search for the phrase "Full cost recovery"

You'll be able to answer your own question then all by yourself.

Ogham

Barely There wrote: »

Washing machines last longer with Calgon.

No they don't - see - http://www.moneyguideireland.com/tip-save-money-on-washing.html

Going Forward

FREETV wrote: »

Here are the lying gobshi**s once again.
Do not pay for water and hold strong and steadfast and flush these Tyrants down the toilet where they belong.
Don't pay twice for water and waste water treatment
services.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tSqNUD47Vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHN18Rzhk_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mzNHwCG00Q

There should be Direct Democracy in Ireland to vote whether they want water charges and Irish Water or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9a9G0JvxAY
March out of respect and honour the achievements of Michael Collins.

Direct Democracy come across as a pack of nutters.

Ogham

Going Forward wrote: »

Try researching the subject you're posting on.

In particular, search for the phrase "Full cost recovery"

You'll be able to answer your own question then all by yourself.

IW will borrow money from "investors" to replace the government money. That is the "plan". That's what Bord Gais and ESB do - and that is why IW was set up so that the assets could be used to get good credit rating and attract loans from investors/banks etc.
Of course - these investors will want interest on the loans - so a proportion of water charges will be going towards paying interest to these investors.

dxhound2005

Am I the first on the thread to record that IW have sent out acknowledgement letters for customer applications. I got mine yesterday and I know another person who got theirs.

Meter installation is continuing in Dundalk unhindered by any protester presence whenever I passed by the various locations. I hope the courts will grant the order to keep protesters 20 metres away from the workers. It is a sensible measure.

DamagedTrax

news coming out of galway this afternoon

Councillor James Charity

Have just been successful in having a motion passed by Galway County Council calling upon the Government to immediately suspend water charges AND recognising that Fine Gael are solely responsible for the introduction of water charges in this country. Proposed by myself, seconded by Cllr. McHugh and remarkably agreed upon by all Fine Gael councillors present. They've finally recognised the flaws in what they've created.

Going Forward

Ogham wrote: »

IW will borrow money from "investors" to replace the government money. That is the "plan". That's what Bord Gais and ESB do - and that is why IW was set up so that the assets could be used to get good credit rating and attract loans from investors/banks etc.
Of course - these investors will want interest on the loans - so a proportion of water charges will be going towards paying interest to these investors.

And these loans will have to be repaid.
Where will this money come from when government subvention ceases?

Irish Water customers.

Full cost recovery will not happen overnight, but gradually and it is the EU and Government stated policy.

Going Forward

DamagedTrax wrote: »

news coming out of galway this afternoon

Councillor James Charity

I love the way Fine Gael won't stand over what they created.

Fine Fail.

DamagedTrax

Going Forward wrote: »

I love the way Fine Gael won't stand over what they created.

Fine Fail.

in fairnes i think anyone of us would be in hiding if we'd created that clusterfcuk.

dxhound2005

DamagedTrax wrote: »

news coming out of galway this afternoon

Councillor James Charity

Have just been successful in having a motion passed by Galway County Council calling upon the Government to immediately suspend water charges AND recognising that Fine Gael are solely responsible for the introduction of water charges in this country. Proposed by myself, seconded by Cllr. McHugh and remarkably agreed upon by all Fine Gael councillors present. They've finally recognised the flaws in what they've created.

FG have 12 councillors as have FF. How many councillors were present for this vote??

Irish Steve

Ogham wrote: »

IW will borrow money from "investors" to replace the government money. That is the "plan". That's what Bord Gais and ESB do - and that is why IW was set up so that the assets could be used to get good credit rating and attract loans from investors/banks etc.
Of course - these investors will want interest on the loans - so a proportion of water charges will be going towards paying interest to these investors.

So which is better, pay interest on (shorter term) loans to fix the network, so that the operating costs are reduced, or pay crazy money to treat water that's going to waste and ignore the leaks?

Like it or not, the water network is on it's knees due to decades of negligent underinvestment by the parties in power, due to their desperate need for visible vote bribes at each local and national election.

We are wasting over 40% of the money put into water treatment, as it's being lost because of leaks, and that's unsustainable going forward, the treatment and distribution networks can't cope with that level of loss.

So, something drastic HAD to be done to solve the problem, and the ONLY way forward was/is to take water out of the political arena so that it's not being used as a money pot to fund voter bribes.

If that's too blunt for you, sorry, but that is the reality of the way politics has been operating in Ireland for the last few decades, and the time for change has long passed.

ESB is an internationally respected service provider, and I see very little criticism of their operation. Electricity prices are higher than I'd like, but that's not completely down to ESB, there is government policy in there that distorts the pricing. Their network operations is acceptably good, even when severe weather disrupts things, we don't get a mountain of excuses and black smoke, and they get the job done. There are issues in some areas where the unions have too much influence and control, which at some stage will have to be addressed, but on the whole, if IW was operating with the same degree of success that ESB does, I doubt there would be the level of anger that there is.

Bord Gais is newer, and has some stellar disasters in the past, Pre Bord Gais, the Dublin Gas conversion was brutal, people died because of the cock ups there and some of those issues had political overtones

IW is now the latest new semi state, and so far, just about every mistake that could have been made has been, and that's after the disaster that saw the creation of the HSE.

IW as a concept had to happen. IW as implemented, with the people at the top that were parachuted in from previous semi state messes is an unacceptable quango that has no real chance of working the way it should have, because the manner in which it has been set up and structured means that making it work is going to be almost impossible, and with the people at the top having no customer focus, but a snout in trough bonus driven and motivated culture, and an "entitlement" mentality that has categorised the higher levels of public service over the last 20 years, they have no motivation or reason to make it work in the way that the people who will be the clients of IW are entitled to expect.

IW is now also being further tainted by political interference that it was in theory set up to get away from, and that's before they've even really got started. I'm sure that the people at the sharp end are probably as frustrated as most of the posters on this thread, they are the ones who are supposed to be making it work on a day to day basis, and we've seen so little real engagement from the management at IW, if the staff are suffering from the same malaise, it won't be a fun place to be working.

As for the politicians, hopefully, they will get what they deserve when we eventually get to make our choices at the next election. I'm not sure that we will like the result of that election, the choices we have right now are appalling, and not really choices, but that's down to the way that people have allowed the system to develop over the last few generations.

It's going to be an interesting few years, that's for sure.

DamagedTrax

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Have just been successful in having a motion passed by Galway County Council calling upon the Government to immediately suspend water charges AND recognising that Fine Gael are solely responsible for the introduction of water charges in this country. Proposed by myself, seconded by Cllr. McHugh and remarkably agreed upon by all Fine Gael councillors present. They've finally recognised the flaws in what they've created.

FG have 12 councillors as have FF. How many councillors were present for this vote??

ive no idea. there's no info up on the GCC site yet. that announcement was made on the councillors page 15 mins ago with no other info.

EDIT: just got an answer, according to james' notes, 8 out of 12 turned up.

Smidge

Senator Fergal Quinn on the news just now saying he is putting a bill before the Senate to reverse the decision made last month that was taken to amend th SW bill to allow IW to access peoples Pps numbers. He said it was done under subterfuge and why should IW be entitled to do this when the likes of the ESB do not.


Absolute disgrace of a government that "supposedly" represent its people that can amend at the whim of DoB:mad:

FREETV

We want them all OUT OUT OUT!

I have never voted before as I know that Politician's are all in it for their own ends, corrupt, snakes in the grass, two faced liars in suits.

Whoever voted that lot in are gullible.

I will vote next time to remove/oust the incompetent fools.
What a shambles the the main three are and the present Coalition are the worst Government ever!

Media manipulation, scaremongering, propaganda spin and threats are their characteristics particularily with the issues of Irish Water and water charges.
Enda should resign along with Joan Burton.
Threatening the Public for compliance and scaring old age pensioners in to submission against their will to pay for water is definitely not democratic.

Iwasfrozen

FREETV wrote: »

I have never voted before....

Then your opinion is invalid.

GreenwayM

I cannot stand this Anti-Water Charges effort !

If we don't pay for the water, WHO WILL????

Why is it acceptable in other countries and not here?

I have voiced my opinion here amongst my neighbours and some of them treat me like a Pariah !

FREETV

My opinion is no more invalid than anybody elses, my parents watch and listen to all the boring monotonous, current affairs tripe on television and were easily manipulated for a good few many years before the recession.
The Public are only waking up.

They are still ignorant of much of what is reality and what is really happening on the ground.

FREETV

GreenwayM wrote: »

I cannot stand this Anti-Water Charges effort !

If we don't pay for the water, WHO WILL????

Why is it acceptable in other countries and not here?

I have voiced my opinion here amongst my neighbours and some of them treat me like a Pariah !

We already are paying for the water, thrice/three times if you have to buy bottled water.

It is a scam and we are in this situation because of corruption, misappropriation of funds and mismanagement.

DamagedTrax

GreenwayM wrote: »

Why is it acceptable in other countries and not here?

if you look at who owns the water systems in other countries, you may not be so happy to accept it. a lot of the same people that got away clean after the bail outs, will most likely have interests.

london south west water is owned by jp morgan, one of the companies instrumental in causing the crash worldwide and receivers of a 12 billion bail out.

if you're ok with people like that owning our water (when it eventually gets privatised), then there's not much to say. but if that idea disgusts you then standing against IW is the only way to stop it that i can see.

Iwasfrozen

DamagedTrax wrote: »

if you look at who owns the water systems in other countries, you may not be so happy to accept it. a lot of the same people that got away clean after the bail outs, will most likely have interests.

london south west water is owned by jp morgan, one of the companies instrumental in causing the crash worldwide and receivers of a 12 billion bail out.

if you're ok with people like that owning our water (when it eventually gets privatised), then there's not much to say. but if that idea disgusts you then standing against IW is the only way to stop it that i can see.

Why is it disgusting that an investment company owns the company that provides water? I just don't understand the mindset at play here...