***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Going Forward

By the way, I've learned more here on boards about Irish Water, the government etc, than any interview or article I've read.

Most people's knowledge would put government ministers to shame. Anti or pro.
Thanks.

Going Forward

zerks wrote: »

Regarding water conservation,didn't IW reserve the right to raise bills if "customers" didn't use enough water?
.

No. They would have to apply to the CER.

Regardless, the conservation aspect is just tagged on to things to cover all angles.

IW have proposed a 20 year plan to reduce the leaks by 50%, hardly a priority.

At this stage, if the leaks were fixed, say in five years, the physical foundations of the country would probably crack from lack of the gel that binds.

Let's dismiss that red herring.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/20-years-to-halve-number-of-water-leaks-268383.html

Clandestine

Question : How is water a human right?

Humans have things like the right to drink it, search for it and to trade for it (with money or whatever) but others have to provide it. We need people to dig wells, build the water pipes, material costs etc. It is not something a person naturally has, it comes at the expense of others

adrian92

My point, I think , is that we may be tempted to engage with the minitiue of x or y litres, why one house pays twice my neighbouring one.

Or even the other one - should one pay?


Needless distress has been introduced to us ; where none existed before , in this matter, by our masters (benign)

We can say, perhaps, - we have all enough existing distress - please do not introduce a new form,

dear leaders whose function is to look after our wellbeing, do you not think?

DamagedTrax

Clandestine wrote: »

Question : How is water a human right?

this is how.

http://www.un.org/waterforlifedecade/human_right_to_water.shtml


whether or not we pay for it is the argument.

Cantona's Collars

Going Forward wrote: »

Let's dismiss that red herring.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/20-years-to-halve-number-of-water-leaks-268383.html

It was revealed early in play that IW will look at raising the cost of supply to cover a shortfall in use.They estimated how much a household will use & are billing on that figure,of course when people become more savvy in their use of water then bills should fall.This will hurt IW's income stream and where will they make up this shortfall? Raise the cost,any time they were asked about this they tried to sidestep the issue but refused to rule it out.

Going Forward

Clandestine wrote: »

Question : How is water a human right?

Humans have things like the right to drink it, search for it and to trade for it (with money or whatever) but others have to provide it. We need people to dig wells, build the water pipes, material costs etc. It is not something a person naturally has, it comes at the expense of others

It comes from the public acceptance of the idea that public taxation would provide public water from the publicly funded water supply infrastructure amounting currently to E1bn.

Industry and commerce make a minuscule contribution of E200m per year, go figure.
The new charges will see households paying twice the rate for water as businesses.

Yes the UN has designated water a human right, but does not go so far as to say it should be free, the rest is open to interpretation, bar the maximum pro rata costs versus income.

IIRC the cost should be less than 10% of ones income, feel free to correct.

Going Forward

adrian92 wrote: »

My point, I think , is that we may be tempted to engage with the minitiue of x or y litres, why one house pays twice my neighbouring one.

Or even the other one - should one pay?


Needless distress has been introduced to us ; where none existed before , in this matter, by our masters (benign)

We can say, perhaps, - we have all enough existing distress - please do not introduce a new form,

dear leaders whose function is to look after our wellbeing, do you not think?

I intend to consume 4.2litres less per day because Irish Water say this will combat climate change.

Ha ha ha.

Cantona's Collars

Going Forward wrote: »

I intend to consume 4.2litres less per day because Irish Water say this will combat climate change.

Ha ha ha.

You should consume 4.2 litres more,think of the "Performance related payments" that they have to earn.If you don't use enough then they aren't doing their job properly...........Oh wait,that sounds wrong,nope it's just another insight into the strange way IW is run.

Oh,I forgot.Even if they don't do their job properly they still get a "payment".

hiFidelity

I can't post links yet, so please Google this to read the artilce

'pac-fury-at-irish-water-questioning-warning'


The Dáil’s spending watchdog has claimed unknown officials are attempting to "muzzle" its work after it received "unsolicited" Oireachtas legal counsel advice warning it not to examine Irish Water.

Public accounts committee chair John McGuinness said all members of the committee want to know why the letter was sent — and who requested it.


(This is from an article in today's Irish Examiner)

DamagedTrax

hiFidelity wrote: »

I can't post links yet, so please Google this to read the artilce

'pac-fury-at-irish-water-questioning-warning'


The Dáil’s spending watchdog has claimed unknown officials are attempting to "muzzle" its work after it received "unsolicited" Oireachtas legal counsel advice warning it not to examine Irish Water.

Public accounts committee chair John McGuinness said all members of the committee want to know why the letter was sent — and who requested it.


(This is from an article in today's Irish Examiner)

i posted it this morning, i'd say its a far few pages back by now.

no harm in people reading again though. be intresting to know who was behind it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/pac-fury-at-irish-water-questioning-warning-293773.html

Banjo String

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i posted it this morning, i'd say its a far few pages back by now.

no harm in people reading again though. be intresting to know who was behind it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/pac-fury-at-irish-water-questioning-warning-293773.html

For those on phones.

The Dáil’s spending watchdog has claimed unknown officials are attempting to "muzzle" its work after it received "unsolicited" Oireachtas legal counsel advice warning it not to examine Irish Water.

Public accounts committee chair John McGuinness said all members of the committee want to know why the letter was sent — and who requested it.

The Fianna Fáil TD said the PAC “took exception” to being warned off questioning Irish Water chief executive John Tierney about the group and his involvement in the controversial Poolbeg incinerator while Dublin city manager.

He said the legal advice, from Oireachtas official, Ramona Quinn, had dropped “out of the sky” without warning on Wednesday night, adding that he wants to know who requested the letter to be sent.

According to the correspondence, which is understood not to have been sent to any other Dáil committee, the PAC has been told that it cannot question Mr Tierney about a series of scandals to hit the group because its accounts are not examined by the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Although the PAC’s work is restricted only to bodies which fall under the C&AG’s remit, this has usually been interpreted to include groups funded by a particular department — in this case the Department of Environment — which in turn is examined by the C&AG.

While Irish Water can still be questioned by the Dáil’s environment committee, the group previously attended a grilling by the more probing PAC in April which is now supposedly not possible — further complicating the situation.

It is also unclear what, if any, role, the ongoing legal action by ex-Rehab chief executive Angela Kerins against the PAC over the scope of its inquiries into the charity had on the correspondence.

Rejecting the legal advice, Mr McGuinness said the PAC is entitled to interview Irish Water due to the public funds involved, and added that he will “establish our right to look at those accounts”.

Sinn Féin TD Mary Lou McDonald said the letter is another “attempt to trim the sails” of the PAC, while Fine Gael’s John Deasy said officials are reaching a point of “absolute absurdity” if they believe Irish Water is outside the spending watchdog’s remit.

Guy:Incognito

DamagedTrax wrote: »

this is how.

http://www.un.org/waterforlifedecade/human_right_to_water.shtml


whether or not we pay for it is the argument.

Theres no argument. No one is denying you access to water, so no human rights issue.


You can walk to the shop any time ypu like and buy water, you can head to the local river with a bucket.

Funny how they've never said how all the people in the other oecd countries are having their human right infringed upon.

Guy:Incognito

zerks wrote: »

It was revealed early in play that IW will look at raising the cost of supply to cover a shortfall in use.They estimated how much a household will use & are billing on that figure,of course when people become more savvy in their use of water then bills should fall.This will hurt IW's income stream and where will they make up this shortfall? Raise the cost,any time they were asked about this they tried to sidestep the issue but refused to rule it out.

They can look to raise the cost to a million euro a litre if they want, doesn't mn the cer will allow them. Just like the other utilities can look to raise their rates but have to ask first.

Guy:Incognito

I see a couple of links on my Facebook now saying how the media are all liars and there's a black out with regard Iw (funnily the black out is lifted at times when the links the like are posted)
. Apparently we shouldn't trust the media because they are making up figures but definitely believe the anti water protesters when they say only 80k appliation packs have been returned and that "a source" told them.

Going Forward

More revelations:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/420k-car-perk-for-water-bosses-293947.html

IW the quango that keeps on giving.

Perks for cars for senior management.

gladrags

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I see a couple of links on my Facebook now saying how the media are all liars and there's a black out with regard Iw (funnily the black out is lifted at times when the links the like are posted)
. Apparently we shouldn't trust the media because they are making up figures but definitely believe the anti water protesters when they say only 80k appliation packs have been returned and that "a source" told them.

They want so sell newspapers,they realise that there is mass popular support,from all sections of the community.

Nothing new in dubious media reporting.

Banjo String

Going Forward wrote: »

More revelations:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/420k-car-perk-for-water-bosses-293947.html

IW the quango that keeps on giving.

Lol

Irish Water said last night that 747,000 of the 1.5m homes set for charges had responded to it so far. Two thirds of people are returning applications by post.

Responded....

How many had "return to sender" or "no consent, no contract" written on them.....

That figures a load of balls tbh. They didn't put the registration deadline back TWICE just for giggles. :pac:

Nov 1st.

dxhound2005

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I see a couple of links on my Facebook now saying how the media are all liars and there's a black out with regard Iw (funnily the black out is lifted at times when the links the like are posted)
. Apparently we shouldn't trust the media because they are making up figures but definitely believe the anti water protesters when they say only 80k appliation packs have been returned and that "a source" told them.

That "source" could be our very own Banjo String. He posted this 5 days ago on the thread.

It's been rumored (yeah, rumored so who knows) that the reason the deadline is being pushed back is apparently because only 80k packs have been filled in properly.


I asked him for more information but I heard nothing back. It has been rumored. Apparently because. What in the world is that meant to mean. It is worse than the worst kind of journalese speak which we have to suffer in this country and that is saying something.

Tony EH

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've voted before, but I've come to realise that "democracy" in this country is a broken concept..

- FF & FG have proven just as bad as each other (in fact FG are worse as at least with FF you know what you're getting!)

- LAB, Greens, PDs and so on are all parties that betray their supposed ideals the minute they shack up with one of the above and are usually annihilated at the next GE anyway

- SF have some good individuals, but Gerry is a serious liability and regardless , you'll have a significant portion of the Irish people who wouldn't vote for them no matter what happened - kinda funny really as it conveniently forgets the history of some of the other parties I've mentioned, and these same people will no doubt be out celebrating their "republicanism" a little over a year from now :rolleyes:

- The far left are equally unelectable, mostly because they are one-issue parties with no idea how to run a country

- Ditto most of the Independents and "new" parties which are usually just FF/FG cast-offs "in disguise"

.. So tell me now again why voting for any of the lot we have to choose from is a good thing??

I think the sentiment of "you don't vote, so your opinion doesn't count" is one of the dumbest things someone could say, especially given to state of Ireland's political entities at present.

Hilarious.

Vote for who?

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That "source" could be our very own Banjo String. He posted this 5 days ago on the thread.

It's been rumored (yeah, rumored so who knows) that the reason the deadline is being pushed back is apparently because only 80k packs have been filled in properly.


I asked him for more information but I heard nothing back. It has been rumored. Apparently because. What in the world is that meant to mean. It is worse than the worst kind of journalese speak which we have to suffer in this country and that is saying something.

You've been very quiet this past couple of days.

Maybe you've taken a break from filling your cisterns with shower water now that the bills will be capped for two years......

Satriale

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That "source" could be our very own Banjo String. He posted this 5 days ago on the thread.

It's been rumored (yeah, rumored so who knows) that the reason the deadline is being pushed back is apparently because only 80k packs have been filled in properly.


I asked him for more information but I heard nothing back. It has been rumored. Apparently because. What in the world is that meant to mean. It is worse than the worst kind of journalese speak which we have to suffer in this country and that is saying something.

Of course the best thing to do with a damaging figure floating around on social media, would be to squash it immediately with the truth, before it gained legs.
That is, if it want already close to the truth.:eek:

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

You've been very quiet this past couple of days.

Maybe you've taken a break from filling your cisterns with shower water now that the bills will be capped for two years......

You are the new policeman for the thread. The force has been reformed and is now acceptable to the people.

Highflyer13

Going Forward wrote: »

More revelations:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/420k-car-perk-for-water-bosses-293947.html

IW the quango that keeps on giving.

Perks for cars for senior management.

You'd swear it was an established successful company. Shameless spending going on in front of our eyes.

Guy:Incognito

Satriale wrote: »

Of course the best thing to do with a damaging figure floating around on social media, would be to squash it immediately with the truth, before it gained legs.
That is, if it want already close to the truth.:eek:

A figure was released, it was before the anti side proclaimed it a lie and released their figure they got from "a source"

Tony EH

zerks wrote: »

It was revealed early in play that IW will look at raising the cost of supply to cover a shortfall in use.They estimated how much a household will use & are billing on that figure,of course when people become more savvy in their use of water then bills should fall.This will hurt IW's income stream and where will they make up this shortfall? Raise the cost,any time they were asked about this they tried to sidestep the issue but refused to rule it out.

This alone, irrespective of all other issues people have with Irish Water, should have everyone boycotting this farce.

Satriale

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

A figure was released, it was before the anti side proclaimed it a lie and released their figure they got from "a source"

Then you would have think they would have squashed the "lie". Like it or not social media has a large audience and if the 80k is false it needs to be corrected fast before IW ends up down the toilet (so to speak).
Accurate figures (with non filled out forms enumerated) not wishywashy numbers that leave questions hanging, for the protestors to fill in the blanks.

Personally i think both figures are deliberately wrong and wish both sides would report accurately.

Guy:Incognito

Tony EH wrote: »

This alone, irrespective of all other issues people have with Irish Water, should have everyone boycotting this farce.

Is there any utility(or company) that doesn't look to increase their price in such circumstances? It's up to the CER as to whether they can or not or if its warranted, just like with other utilities.

The alternative is to give them subsidies like they do with other companies set up in the exact same manner like Irish Rail.


It would be counter productive to lower the price and try to encourage more usage like a private company could to get customers in. Reducing usage is what they are after.

Pocoyo

I pay taxes the notion of free water is nonsense its already paid for,These idiots claiming i wont 'free' water are just shills,My tax covers many services including water,Whats next should i go out and tip the street cleaners or the gardai too!!

Guy:Incognito

Pocoyo wrote: »

I pay taxes the notion of free water is nonsense its already paid for,These idiots claiming i wont 'free' water are just shills,My tax covers many services including water,Whats next should i go out and tip the street cleaners or the gardai too!!

and around the circle goes.

We may aswell close the thread and start a new one after every couple of pages in an effort to stop the repetitiveness. At least if its only a couple of pages people might actually read it.