***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Pocoyo

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

and around the circle goes.

We may aswell close the thread and start a new one after every couple of pages in an effort to stop the repetitiveness. At least if its only a couple of pages people might actually read it.

Sorry but the truth always comes back to bite you,The circle of life its a beautiful thing.

gladrags

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

and around the circle goes.

We may aswell close the thread and start a new one after every couple of pages in an effort to stop the repetitiveness. At least if its only a couple of pages people might actually read it.

On the contrary,this thread has certainly been very effective,and most importantly educative, in all things relating to IW,and water.

Some posters register to express their opinion,as a one off,so thats ok as well.

dxhound2005

Pocoyo wrote: »

Sorry but the truth always comes back to bite you,The circle of life its a beautiful thing.

Accompanied by taxes and death to follow. Two certainties in most countries.

Guy:Incognito

Pocoyo wrote: »

Sorry but the truth always comes back to bite you,The circle of life its a beautiful thing.

Your same little rant has been made , and replied to, many times in the thread.

I don't feel bitten.

Guy:Incognito

gladrags wrote: »

On the contrary,this thread has certainly been very effective,and most importantly educative, in all things relating to IW,and water.

Some posters register to express their opinion,as a one off,so thats ok as well.

It could be condensed down to a couple of pages of bullet points though. Its page after page of the same thing. It happens in long threads of most subjects, till any valid points are watered down then the thread just becomes a glorified round of "you're stupid" " no you're stupid" with new people dropping in thinking they're making a new and insightful revelation which in reality was covered days ago.

Guy:Incognito

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Accompanied by taxes and death to follow. Two certainties in most countries.

No, don't you read the truth, it's only here. Beyond our borders are all tax free utopias where people love their politicians and hang on their every word. But Denis O'Brien doesn't want you to see that so he doesn't let the papers and tv stations (he owns them all you know) report any of it.

Satriale

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No, don't you read the truth, it's only here. Beyond our borders are all tax free utopias where people love their politicians and hang on their every word. But Denis O'Brien doesn't want you to see that so he doesn't let the papers and tv stations (he owns them all you know) report any of it.

link?

dxhound2005

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It could be condensed down to a couple of pages of bullet points though. Its page after page of the same thing. It happens in long threads of most subjects, till any valid points are watered down then the thread just becomes a glorified round of "you're stupid" " no you're stupid" with new people dropping in thinking they're making a new and insightful revelation which in reality was covered days ago.

And some people seem to think that this little discussion is somehow going to let them escape paying or even help to change the law. Every new "story" in the papers is regurgitated as if is is the thing which is going to sink IW and bring down the government. Mostly hysterical stuff about expenses or reports about populist politicians looking out for their seats. Witness Willie O'Dea and the man from Drogheda this week. He is miffed about losing his Cabinet position and he is afraid his seat will go the same way as that of his brother and his son in the local elections, down the Swanee. The worst I heard though was a Meath councillor on LMFM apologising profusely to his electorate for having voted for water charges. He is now so so penitent.

http://www.lmfm.ie/news/meath-councillor-apologises-for-voting-for-water-charges/3193

I got my property tax bill this week. The good councillors of Louth decided in their wisdom to reduce the amount by 1.5%. Property tax was the previous thing which was going to sink the government, not a word about it these days.

Between the last march and the next one I will have lost more in wages than most people will pay for water in a year. Due to the wage cuts continuing since 2010 and the wage rises negotiated by the unions and then abandoned by them without a whimper. They still want me to go out marching about the water with people who attack workers trying to do their jobs but they will do nothing about wages. Talk about barking up the wrong tree.

Pocoyo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And some people seem to think that this little discussion is somehow going to let them escape paying or even help to change the law. Every new "story" in the papers is regurgitated as if is is the thing which is going to sink IW and bring down the government. Mostly hysterical stuff

And what may i ask do you hope to achieve being the number one poster on this thread? Ironic!

Satriale

dxhound2005 wrote: »

http://www.lmfm.ie/news/meath-councillor-apologises-for-voting-for-water-charges/3193

Good on Councillor Wayne Forde, its a humbling sight to see a politician realise his mistake and come out with his hands up and admit he was wrong. i hope his consituents realise the gem they have in their midst.

FREETV

FREETV wrote: »

We want them all OUT OUT OUT!

I have never voted before as I know that Politician's are all in it for their own ends, corrupt, snakes in the grass, two faced liars in suits.

Whoever voted that lot in are gullible.

I will vote next time to remove/oust the incompetent fools.

You never voted so you have no more of a voice than a dog.

I voted FG and have always voted FG and I will vote FG again.

People are such fools, getting so hung up about these bloody water charges it's so painful every time I turn on the radio or TV or look online there is constant whining.

They are far from perfect but FG have steered us out of recession and has got us back into growth and has got many many people back into work. They have also cut taxes in the last budget (a fact being completely ignored) which more than compensated for the water charges as I said earlier in the thread with the budget cuts I'll be a few 100 euro better off next year after paying water charges.

Satriale

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

You never voted so you have no more of a voice than a dog.

I voted FG and have always voted FG and I will vote FG again.

People are such fools, getting so hung up about these bloody water charges it's so painful every time I turn on the radio or TV or look online there is constant whining.

They are far from perfect but FG have steered us out of recession and has got us back into growth and has got many many people back into work. They have also cut taxes in the last budget (a fact being completely ignored) which more than compensated for the water charges as I said earlier in the thread with the budget cuts I'll be a few 100 euro better off next year after paying water charges.

In fairness its not just the water charges, its also the corruption and cronyism of Fine Gael along with their lies and incompetence.
The only real steering they did was in carrying out Fianna Fails policies and create an atmosphere where FF and/or SF will be in government next time around.
More than likely with out FG as they are historically unelecteable after one term.

Little CuChulainn

Satriale wrote: »

Good on Councillor Wayne Forde, its a humbling sight to see a politician realise his mistake and come out with his hands up and admit he was wrong. i hope his consituents realise the gem they have in their midst.

A guy who changes his beliefs based on popular opinion?

Satriale

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

A guy who changes his beliefs based on popular opinion?

Democracy in action , vote him out next time if you disagree with him.

Banjo String

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

A guy who changes his beliefs based on popular opinion?

Something, something morally wrong and unjust to tax an Irishman's home.

Something something pre-election manifesto......


Changing minds. Fashionable.

tayto lover

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

A guy who changes his beliefs based on popular opinion?

Rather than which party's in power :rolleyes:

Little CuChulainn

Satriale wrote: »

Democracy in action , vote him out next time if you disagree with him.

An interesting double standard. Labour are vilified for changing their pre election stance and that council member is celebrated.

tayto lover wrote: »

Rather than which party's in power :rolleyes:

I'm not really sure what that means.

Satriale

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

An interesting double standard. Labour are vilified for changing their pre election stance and that council member is celebrated.



I'm not really sure what that means.

Which stance are you talking about? There have been so many its hard to keep up.

Banjo String

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

You never voted so you have no more of a voice than a dog.

Horse shıt. A citizen of the country has a voice, because they didn't vote doesn't make that voice any less audible.

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

I voted FG and have always voted FG and I will vote FG again.

As is your right. Well done.

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

People are such fools, getting so hung up about these bloody water charges it's so painful every time I turn on the radio or TV or look online there is constant whining.

Oh yeah, all them idiots whinging..... 33% of the eligible houses only returned forms..... They're all wrong, and it's those in Leinster house are right.....

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

They are far from perfect but FG have steered us out of recession and has got us back into growth and has got many many people back into work. They have also cut taxes in the last budget (a fact being completely ignored) which more than compensated for the water charges as I said earlier in the thread with the budget cuts I'll be a few 100 euro better off next year after paying water charges.

Didn't they just do what FF signed us up to (guided by the troika)

_Kaiser_

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

You never voted so you have no more of a voice than a dog.

Arrogant condescension aside, maybe he just doesn't think there's any party worth voting for from the current lot? Arrogant condescension is the hallmark of Kenny and his lot though.

I voted FG and have always voted FG and I will vote FG again.

There is none so blind as those who will not see - or did you miss the Shatter fasco, Reilly's mess in the HSE, Hogan.. well everytime Hogan opens his mouth it seems it's to put his foot in it etc... and then there's the IW debacle...

People are such fools, getting so hung up about these bloody water charges it's so painful every time I turn on the radio or TV or look online there is constant whining.

Who's the bigger fool? The man fighting for change or the one blindly following the status quo?

They are far from perfect

That's an understatement...

but FG have steered us out of recession and has got us back into growth and has got many many people back into work.

I think you're giving Enda's bunch far too much credit for a general upswing in Euroland (which does seem to have been temporary). As for people back to work.. I don't count slave labour schemes as gainful employment myself.

Any private companies who are hiring certainly aren't doing so because of the current government - who still haven't addressed another growing housing crisis, credit availability etc

They have also cut taxes in the last budget (a fact being completely ignored) which more than compensated for the water charges as I said earlier in the thread with the budget cuts I'll be a few 100 euro better off next year after paying water charges.

They decreased most people's taxes by 8 quid a week.. whoopededoo - before taking out Water Charges, increased rents and/or commuting costs etc.

FG's performance over the last few years is nothing to be gushing about.

Irish Steve

We will never know what might have happened had the Troika/IMF taken the nuclear option, which would have shut ALL the existing state services down, and stopped all of the index linked defined benefit pensions, as well as breaking up many of the quangos that are wasting so much money.

All of those services would have had to be replaced, but in what form, and with what staff? It could well have been a very painful and traumatic shock to the system that would have changed the nature of Irish Politics and state services for a very long time to come, and in hindsight, given the singular failure of the coalition to bring in the reforms they promised, I am left wondering if the right decision was made.

When I hear some of the things that are going on at the moment, the PAC being "warned off", IW giving all manner of extravagant allowances to senior managers, and fringe benefits as well, it's clear that the lessons were not learnt, the culture has not changed, and the "Golden Circle" is alive and well and doing everything it can to ensure that the status quo is restored to "normal" as soon as possible, so that they can fill the trough again.

Sickening, and unacceptable, the problem being that there's no alternative that is prepared to address the corruption, cronyism and isolationist culture that exists across so many of the political and public sector divisions.

Not voting is not an option, if only one person voted because the rest of us all decided not to, then the result would be based on that one vote, a constitutional change to have a "none of the above" option on a ballot is the only possible way forward, and if more than a defined percentage vote "none", the election is declared invalid, and void, and has to be re run, which might just mean that the parties competing would have to present policies that they can stand over and are prepared to put into place.

In the same way, a referendum style question on things like TD's pay that has to be voted on yes or no at each election might restore some control over the political elite, somehow, they have to be made answerable and accountable to the people, as that is how it it supposed to be, and at present very clearly is not.

I am under no illusions, the IW fiasco is just the tip of a very big iceberg, and somehow, the whole system has to be changed and fundamentally reformed in order to make it once again fit for purpose, and answerable to the people.

gladrags

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It could be condensed down to a couple of pages of bullet points though. Its page after page of the same thing. It happens in long threads of most subjects, till any valid points are watered down then the thread just becomes a glorified round of "you're stupid" " no you're stupid" with new people dropping in thinking they're making a new and insightful revelation which in reality was covered days ago.

It takes a while to get accustomed to these threads,and the culture within.

Rules within rules,I suppose its down to experience.

Might be an idea to recommend to new users,that they read the history first,prior to posting.

But that might be to much of an endurance,in the case of this thread.

dxhound2005

Irish Steve wrote: »

We will never know what might have happened had the Troika/IMF taken the nuclear option, which would have shut ALL the existing state services down, and stopped all of the index linked defined benefit pensions, as well as breaking up many of the quangos that are wasting so much money.

All of those services would have had to be replaced, but in what form, and with what staff? It could well have been a very painful and traumatic shock to the system that would have changed the nature of Irish Politics and state services for a very long time to come, and in hindsight, given the singular failure of the coalition to bring in the reforms they promised, I am left wondering if the right decision was made.

When I hear some of the things that are going on at the moment, the PAC being "warned off", IW giving all manner of extravagant allowances to senior managers, and fringe benefits as well, it's clear that the lessons were not learnt, the culture has not changed, and the "Golden Circle" is alive and well and doing everything it can to ensure that the status quo is restored to "normal" as soon as possible, so that they can fill the trough again.

Sickening, and unacceptable, the problem being that there's no alternative that is prepared to address the corruption, cronyism and isolationist culture that exists across so many of the political and public sector divisions.

Not voting is not an option, if only one person voted because the rest of us all decided not to, then the result would be based on that one vote, a constitutional change to have a "none of the above" option on a ballot is the only possible way forward, and if more than a defined percentage vote "none", the election is declared invalid, and void, and has to be re run, which might just mean that the parties competing would have to present policies that they can stand over and are prepared to put into place.

In the same way, a referendum style question on things like TD's pay that has to be voted on yes or no at each election might restore some control over the political elite, somehow, they have to be made answerable and accountable to the people, as that is how it it supposed to be, and at present very clearly is not.

I am under no illusions, the IW fiasco is just the tip of a very big iceberg, and somehow, the whole system has to be changed and fundamentally reformed in order to make it once again fit for purpose, and answerable to the people.

What is a referendum style question? Is it the same as a referendum? The Constitution doesn't allow referendums on money matters. Otherwise every new tax or charge properly enacted by our democratically elected legislature would be voted down by the people in most likleyhood. And no doubt all existing taxes would be forced to a vote as well by the populist elements. No way to run a country.

None of the above. Why don't you and the others who go on about They are all the Same, stand for election?

Satriale

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What is a referendum style question? Is it the same as a referendum? The Constitution doesn't allow referendums on money matters. Otherwise every new tax or charge properly enacted by our democratically elected legislature would be voted down by the people in most likleyhood. And no doubt all existing taxes would be forced to a vote as well by the populist elements. No way to run a country.

None of the above. Why don't you and the others who go on about They are all the Same, stand for election?

It's the way they run Switzerland, arguably a more successful country than Ireland.
Yes immature voting would be a problem in the short term, but people wouldnt be long voting for higher taxes when their cops were pulled off the street.
Real democracy, scary thought isnt it!

UCDVet

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

and around the circle goes.

We may aswell close the thread and start a new one after every couple of pages in an effort to stop the repetitiveness. At least if its only a couple of pages people might actually read it.

No disrespect - but the same could be said of 99% of posts on After Hours. in fact, they actively discourage people from bumping old threads, even if it is the same topic.

We're all just wasting time here. The same threads come up time and time again.

gladrags

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Why don't you and the others who go on about They are all the Same, stand for election?

You don't have to be elected to express your opinion.

Which is merely what he is doing.

We elect politicians to supposedly represent that opinion.

Iwasfrozen

Satriale wrote: »

It's the way they run Switzerland, arguably a more successful country than Ireland.
Yes immature voting would be a problem in the short term, but people wouldnt be long voting for higher taxes when their cops were pulled off the street.
Real democracy, scary thought isnt it!

And what about the people who are robbed / killed in the meantime?

Satriale

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And what about the people who are robbed / killed in the meantime?

Ive news for you, Sunshine, there are people being killed every day even with cops on the scene and by men who have lists of convictions as long as your arm and should by rights be in a cell

Anyway didnt the bold Phil Hogan say "you cant make an omelette without breaking a few eggs"

Tony EH

zerks wrote: »

It was revealed early in play that IW will look at raising the cost of supply to cover a shortfall in use.They estimated how much a household will use & are billing on that figure,of course when people become more savvy in their use of water then bills should fall.This will hurt IW's income stream and where will they make up this shortfall? Raise the cost,any time they were asked about this they tried to sidestep the issue but refused to rule it out.

Tony EH wrote: »

This alone, irrespective of all other issues people have with Irish Water, should have everyone boycotting this farce.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is there any utility(or company) that doesn't look to increase their price in such circumstances? It's up to the CER as to whether they can or not or if its warranted, just like with other utilities.

The alternative is to give them subsidies like they do with other companies set up in the exact same manner like Irish Rail.

It would be counter productive to lower the price and try to encourage more usage like a private company could to get customers in. Reducing usage is what they are after.

So, said company sets itself up with the tenet that one of its goals is to conserve water. However, if people actually conserve water, said company will further punish them by raising its prices.

Which shows that the words of said company are not to be trusted.

Neither are the words of their supporters.

Iwasfrozen

Satriale wrote: »

Ive news for you, Sunshine, there are people being killed every day even with cops on the scene and by men who have lists of convictions as long as your arm and should by rights be in a cell

Anyway didnt the bold Phil Hogan say "you cant make an omelette without breaking a few eggs"

Sure there are people killed everyday but you gave the scenario of people voting for higher taxes when the number of gardai begin to fall.

But if we can agree that falling numbers of gardai lead to higher crime rates then what about the victims in the meantime? Direct democracy is too destabilizing to be a real alternative.