***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Ogham

dashcamdanny wrote: »

JUst checked my meter. 104,000 liters since 16/11/13 when fitted.

Much shouting at my family .

2 adults 1 child.

That's about 130k per year - "medium" usage according to this http://www.moneyguideireland.com/details-of-water-charges-for-families-with-children.html and should work out at around €400 a year - assuming you ive them your pps and get the free allowances.

keno-daytrader

shedweller wrote: »

Because it has less to do with water itself and more to do with using water as a way of getting yet more money out of us. It'll end up like the motor tax in that when we all economise on the water with fancy low flow taps etc, the price of water will magically go up!
Because its not about the water.

Funnyonion79

dashcamdanny wrote: »

JUst checked my meter. 104,000 liters since 16/11/13 when fitted.

Much shouting at my family .

2 adults 1 child.

How do you check your meter? How do you access it?

VEN

i'm still not clear on this and find its going to cause problems. many of these apartments are been sent just one letter for the entire block with occupier on it! say 6 apartments, they need 6 application packs don't they? not just that but, one pps number for the person liable? who is liable amongst a 4 bed apartment of sharing tenants unrelated to each other, independant of each other? who is going take that on and will there be arguments? you bet there will. all pps numbers should go on it or none at all. this is seriously f**** up, this is not like giving ones name to esb for utility bill, this is also asking for the pps number for who is liable? in this case 4 tenants in that apartment, many who will not be entitled to any allowance and already know this so the pps number is not required, it should not be.

so one app pack for one building divided into 6 apartments x 4 tenants each, one persons pps number liable for 24 tenants usage??? that person will not be me.
it will have to be resolved with landlord and state 'occupier' with all 24 pps numbers! lol

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Rips

You know I would be happy to pay for water if I knew what I was paying for.

I am happy to pay for services I use. Water is a utility as far as I'm concerned, we should be paying for it.

I am also happy to pay set fixed taxes applicable to all. I pay the same motor tax as the next person (who owns the same car etc)

I am not happy to pay for services I am not using, nor pay taxes that don't equitably apply to all.

I don't understand how some people are going to be charged for water as a utility, and others (unmetered) are essentially going to landed with what is essentially a set tax.

I am currently living somewhere that I presume will be unmetered (apartment block)

I've received one of the 'occupant' letters.

I left the country for 3 months this year, I could do so again within the next 6months ... will I be charged for 12 months supply of water I haven't used?

Once you register as a 'customer', will you be charged all year round, irrespective of moving from place to place. I just don't understand how it works/will work.

I won't be doing a single thing about it, until I get the relevant information.

The booklet I got in the post answer none of my questions.

I also tried to look up information regarding agricultural use (online, on their website etc) and came back empty handed.

According to the booklet, if I don't sign up for this service I don't understand, I can be penalised. There is a whole lot of 'if you are' this and 'if you are that' ... seemingly at no point until after I've signed up and have been billed will I be informed 'what' exactly I will be billed for. Metered/unmetered? For 12 months? Unit price?

What if after they've decided on a unit price I discover I can't afford to pay for unmetered usage? Will they supply a metre or will I have to move to somewhere that I can 'use water within my means'?

Its ridiculous.

Half the apartments in my block are empty, yet every apartment got a letter ... who informs Irish Water when they are occupied? Will they send out letters routinely to every home in the country, which may have been vacant?

It seems work on a basis that presumes 'everyone' is living somewhere, and therefore must sign up as a customer, and your account will follow you around?

What happens next year when someone who has not been 'a customer of Irish Water' moves into one of these unoccupied apartments? Some of the apartments are privately owned and could be let at any time on an ad hoc basis to relatives etc Who will inform Irish Water they are there?

Banjo String

Some excellent points Rips.

I imagine the pps number will play a very big part in tracking a person's whereabouts, and how to pin them down and keep track of them.

iguana

People also need to find out if their water mains is supplying more than one house. I bought a house a few weeks ago that has metered mains water and a septic tank for waste. Turns out that when we turned the water off in order to do work in the kitchen that a house on another street is illegally tapping our water through our back garden. If we hadn't switched our water off, we wouldn't have known this other house, with a much bigger family than ours, would have been drawing all their water through our meter. We'd have been billed for an absolute fortune, while the other family would have been paying a flat rate.

In the process of getting this sorted out we've been told that this is a frighteningly common set-up in this country as dodgy builders hooked two or more house up together in order to avoid paying for connection to the mains. People really need to monitor their meters for the next few months and be sure that they are only being metered for their own usage.

nelly17

Still no letter from them here yet, should I be contacting someone?

Daith

Rips wrote: »

Once you register as a 'customer', will you be charged all year round, irrespective of moving from place to place. I just don't understand how it works/will work.

Huh? That can't be right. Surely you can cancel being a customer like any utility? I know the ESB has records of my previous addresses but I don't keep getting bills from them.

cagefactor

I own those houses, strangely I got one letter thus far addressed to me. However on the letter in the details of source address , is the address of my other property.

I'm not filling it in.

Banjo String

Daith wrote: »

Huh? That can't be right. Surely you can cancel being a customer like any utility? I know the ESB has records of my previous addresses but I don't keep getting bills from them.

ESB, Eircom etc have competitors.

Not sure, but maybe because Irish Water have a monopoly on the supply of water, they are going to assume that if your residing at a domestic property, your connected to the mains.

They'll then assume your a customer until they hear otherwise. .?

keano_afc

dashcamdanny wrote: »

To be completely honest. Im not really against water charges as long as the money is used correctly to repair and upgrade the system,and the government does not increase it every year to balance the revenue books.

But the fact it, they will misuse the money and they will shaft us in the future. Enda lied his head off and got away with it, fooled voters and wormed his way to leader
. I expect nothing but the same from the slimy pric k.

At the moment, the allowance is to small and even if I make a reduction, (which I will) I will still be paying quite alot.

This is it. I dont have a problem paying for water. I have a huge problem paying Irish Water for water.

BOHSBOHS

WATER CHARGES
(4.88 per 1000L w/ 30k and 21k allowances)

did a quick calc (corrections welcome)
irish water usage 150L per day per person
EU average 130L


Avg Charge per year based on current avg water usage
2 adults 388.33
4 adults 923.05
extra charge per kid 164.88

if our usage falls to EU average
2 adults 317.03
4 adults 780.46
extra charge per kid 129.33

now where in hell did the governments avg bill figure of 240 come from???
was it per quarter??? :eek:

gonna be a lot calls to Joe Duffy come january!!!:p

cocoman

BOHSBOHS wrote: »

WATER CHARGES
(4.88 per 1000L w/ 30k and 21k allowances)

did a quick calc (corrections welcome)
irish water usage 150L per day per person
EU average 130L


Avg Charge per year based on current avg water usage
2 adults 388.33
4 adults 923.05
extra charge per kid 164.88

if our usage falls to EU average
2 adults 317.03
4 adults 780.46
extra charge per kid 129.33

now where in hell did the governments avg bill figure of 240 come from???
was it per quarter??? :eek:

gonna be a lot calls to Joe Duffy come january!!!:p

I think the €240 figure may have been based on "water in" only which would be the case for all those not connected to a public sewer. The charge would then be €2.44 per cubic meter instead of €4.88 which you have used in your calculations.

Ogham

BOHSBOHS wrote: »

WATER CHARGES
(4.88 per 1000L w/ 30k and 21k allowances)

did a quick calc (corrections welcome)
irish water usage 150L per day per person
EU average 130L

That 150l per day is just a figure thrown about and quoted - but no one knows where it came from or how it was calculated.
No houses have been metered before - so any usage figures were probably based on water supplied by local authorities - but leaks probably accounted for as much as 40% of it.

Since the meters have been in - IW have been monitoring usage on about 1650 homes - and the ESRI have also checked the stats. They show that average per capita usage is 112l per day or 40800 a year.
The average usage for a single person household was 173l per day.
Usage per person decreases as households get bigger.
Eeach additional child uses an av of 53 l per day (19000 per year) and each additional adult just 76l per day.(28000 a year)

Ogham

cocoman wrote: »

I think the €240 figure may have been based on "water in" only which would be the case for all those not connected to a public sewer. The charge would then be €2.44 per cubic meter instead of €4.88 which you have used in your calculations.

The €240 is supposed to be the average per household charge - including waste water. But it will also include those on supply only. As with all averages - they can be pretty meaningless - because many will pay more and many will pay less than the average

dashcamdanny

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

How do you check your meter? How do you access it?

There should be a stopcock out the front of your house somewhere. Usually a black plastic round cover about 8" in diameter with the word water on it.

Insert a large screw driver in the side slot and pry the cover open. There should then be a frost shield of some description and the meter is beneath.

There is a plastic cover on a hinge over the counter of the meter to protect it, simply lift this to see the counter.

No one else should ever go near your meter but you. Meter readings will be done by Irish Water remotely .

Irish water will tell you over the phone the installation date when the meter was zero. Get this date and it will give you a gauge of you usage till now.

Since yesterday I spend 40 euro on parts for my toilet and fitted them. They where both running constantly. Really small trickle. Spent another 30 on a new shower head that will restrict my shower from 13L and min to 9L a min. Im hoping this will cut my bill drastically .

shedweller

Brick in the cistern and shorter showers would have no payback time and instant savings!
But the jacks would smell a bit more as well as yourself....

Rips

Daith wrote: »

Huh? That can't be right. Surely you can cancel being a customer like any utility? I know the ESB has records of my previous addresses but I don't keep getting bills from them.

The thing is, when I leave the country for 3 months, I don't use any Kwh of electricity, therefor all I pay is the standing charge on my account plus VAT, about €23. I'd happily pay that as otherwise there is a whole faff of having the account disconnected and reconnected.

If I am living in an apartment block, where 12 other residents are all using the same unmetred supply (I imagine the actual usage will vary massively month to month, depending on occupancy)... and I ring up Irish Water and say I am leaving the country for 3 months or house sitting for my parents for 3 months (not customers of Irish Water) ... how will they know if I am using water or not?


They won't.

As far as I can see, if you are unmetered usage you are going to be billed all year round regardless. That to me = Tax.

Ogham

Rips wrote: »

As far as I can see, if you are unmetered usage you are going to be billed all year round regardless. That to me = Tax.

Empty metered properties are supposed to pay a minimum of €160 a year - .

The problem is that there is no standing charge - which was specifically asked for by Govt. IW need to get revenue to cover the upkeep of pipework,treatment plants etc. Charging purely for usage is wrong.

Highflyer13

Nail on head, We are far to relaxed on this issue. A step to far imo and since our glorious economy is booming again I will be looking for some tax breaks in the next budget.:mad:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-government-is-ppsing-all-over-us-30602998.html

shedweller

I had a look at the oilmarketreport website and we are now using more fuel year on year since 2012 if i remember correctly. This of course means more tax. I would hazard a guess it is more than the water tax will bring in. Once the economy "takes off like a rocket" the money gained from the water tax will pale in comparison to other taxes.
Now when it gets privatised it will be a nice earner for whomever is in charge!

Mrs Garth Brooks

Just reading the independent article above. They're asking for every little detail about your life, pps number, email, phone number, bank account details.

Not sure what they will use the email for. But the bank account? Are they taking payments from bank accounts. Good luck to them. My mother doesn't even have a bank account.

And what happens if you don't have a meter? How will they bill the house? Probably an over estimated bill.

I can imangine there will be arguments in house shares. Who signs up. Charges start in October, billing in January. Good luck chasing them if someone moves out. Then if someone moves in November, are they paying for someone else's water use for October.

What a pack of ****.

Heroditas

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Not sure what they will use the email for. But the bank account? Are they taking payments from bank accounts. Good luck to them. My mother doesn't even have a bank account.

The email can be used for electronic billing. They can email you the bill instead of posting it. It's something I'd definitely avail of.

Yes they will give customers the option of paying by direct debit. It will hardly be compulsory.
Your mum will be able to pay using cash at the post office. How does she pay for her electricity at the moment?

Ogham

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Just reading the independent article above. They're asking for every little detail about your life, pps number, email, phone number, bank account details.

Not sure what they will use the email for. But the bank account? Are they taking payments from bank accounts. Good luck to them. My mother doesn't even have a bank account.

And what happens if you don't have a meter? How will they bill the house? Probably an over estimated bill.

I can imangine there will be arguments in house shares. Who signs up. Charges start in October, billing in January. Good luck chasing them if someone moves out. Then if someone moves in November, are they paying for someone else's water use for October.

What a pack of ****.

Bank account is only wanted if you want to pay by direct debit. Same as any other utility/company. Nothing sinister going on there at all.

TheQuietFella

Put the application pack in the bin or burn it!

Banjo String

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Put the application pack in the bin or burn it!

Imagine if a mass campaign git underway to put a load of false info on the packs. Wrong name, wrong pps number, wrong tel number etc.

That'd tie up their resources alright.

arse..biscuits

Ogham wrote: »

Bank account is only wanted if you want to pay by direct debit. Same as any other utility/company. Nothing sinister going on there at all.

Who are the third parties which this information will be given to?

DebDynamite

The Irish Water pack came to our house addressed to the previous owners. What will happen if I just ignore it?

Does anyone happen to know if the job for Specialist Security officers for Irish Water on Gumtree was real ad?

Ive read parts of the ad, and wondered was it someone taking the p***

( apologies if already its been discussed)