***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

FREETV

DrumSteve wrote: »

I hate when people use the word sheeple.

I dont agree with IW btw but if you Vote out this lot, the rest of them (FF/SF) are even worse.

I believe that there are a couple of new parties and will be one or two more before Labour and Fine Gael are ousted.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/contamination/special-report-fizzy-mucky-and-with-a-vile-smell-30691774.html

Water quality is dire nearly everywhere and is loaded with chemicals and of course there are some old lead pipes etc.

Irish Steve

FREETV wrote: »

I said that the vast majority have woken up and nobody protesting and complaining on Facebook wants Enda or Irish Water, the water charges.
The rest are still baaahh, sheeple and only have half a brain between them. :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Enough of your insults.

I don't want IW, for all the reasons I have already outlined, which you seem very happy to ignore as they don't fit your agenda, but as far as I am concerned, if it will mean an improvement in water quality, which it should, I will accept that water charges based on consumption is a good thing.

It'll make the thread much quicker to read. Ignore List on

Guy:Incognito

FREETV wrote: »

Water quality is dire nearly everywhere and is loaded with chemicals and of course there are some old lead pipes etc.

Is this a post against charging for water and spend money on infrastructure?

coolemon

Irish Steve wrote: »

Enough of your insults.

Little CuChulainn

shinzon wrote: »

So lets just get real about the whole thing here, pro water people are happy to bitch and moan and besmirch all the protestors but would be just as happy if they won and IW was no more

Shin

Yeah I hate those pro water people. Always pushing the benefits of hydrating.

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

Sooner or later I can see it being taken from the wages of people refusing to pay.

People seem to forget the HHC was originally a council collected charge and was upgraded to a tax to stop the messing about. There's no reason the government cannot do something similar in this instance. It's not like they have an election to save. They are most likely going out either way. And only a fool would think any incoming government would change anything.

coolemon

They should really make the charge progressive. Some privi with an indoor swimming pool would think nothing of filling it up out of their pocket change. Meanwhile the poor family are watching every flush of their toilet and washing their two kids in the same bath water.

I propose a swimming pool and a fountain tax. They can pay for it with the change under their bath.

dxhound2005

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

People seem to forget the HHC was originally a council collected charge and was upgraded to a tax to stop the messing about. There's no reason the government cannot do something similar in this instance. It's not like they have an election to save. They are most likely going out either way. And only a fool would think any incoming government would change anything.

There will be no need to go that direction. How many people who swore in their hundreds of thousands that they would never pay bin charges are still holding out? Very few, I would suggest. The TV licence is an annual charge which if you escape for one year or ten years you only have to pay for going forward, no arrears. 80% or more compliance there and it is really easy to evade.

But water charges just like any other utility bill will keep increasing as long as it remains unpaid, and the outliers can be taken to court when the generality of objectors have seen the wisdom of changing their ways. IW can play the long game, it will be a civil debt which will have the effect for instance of stopping someone selling their home while it remains undischarged. Or possibly result in them not being able to take out loans.

It is only a matter of time, until people get used to the idea that a charge for water is normal, just like a charge for electricity.

Iwasfrozen

coolemon wrote: »

They should really make the charge progressive. Some privi with an indoor swimming pool would think nothing of filling it up out of their pocket change. Meanwhile the poor family are watching every flush of their toilet and washing their two kids in the same bath water.

I propose a swimming pool and a fountain tax. They can pay for it with the change under their bath.

Means testing the expense would be very costly and would require IW be given access to more personal information.

A private swimming pool tax could work but it would be very hard to force compliance on that one.

Irish Steve

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Means testing the expense would be very costly and would require IW be given access to more personal information.

A private swimming pool tax could work but it would be very hard to force compliance on that one.

Make sure that any house using mains water that has a swimming pool has a meter, and you tax is sorted, a 10 m x 3 M x 2 M pool is going to cost somewhere over €250 to fill, based on just under €5 per Sq Mtr. I think that's enough of a tax without adding to it further.

Fountains are normally recirculating, and rarely use piped water. No mileage there at all.

gladrags

Valetta wrote: »

Millions didn't march.

Millions did not vote for water charges.

No one did.

Millions did not vote for this government.

Nor did the majority of the electorate.

Because millions did not march,does not mean they...

Approve water charges,and dissaprove the march.

Try again.

Guy:Incognito

gladrags wrote: »

Millions did not vote for water charges.

No one did.

Millions did not vote for this government.

Nor did the majority of the electorate.

Because millions did not march,does not mean they...

Do not approve water charges,and dissaprove the march.

Try again.

Was it not in the FG manifesto in 2011?

gladrags

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Was it not in the FG manifesto in 2011?

I have not checked.

Manifesto's from whoever mean very little,they are not based on facts,they are based on promises...

Broken ones.

I assume you are aware of this.

I cannot remember cute hoor Kenny at the plinth,promising to introduce a tax on the water charge tax.

Can you?

Cuttlefish

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Don't forget to bump the numbers by bringing the kids :-)

For added effect, get them looking sad holding a sign.

Like your humour.

You, I presume, are a gawker standing with your BT bags as the marchers file past?

Guy:Incognito

gladrags wrote: »

I have not checked.

Doesn't stop you making definite statements on things though, does it?


Broken promises or not. If they put it in their manifesto you cant turn around 3 Years later and say its a surprise.

Cuttlefish

Valetta wrote: »

Millions didn't march.

And I guess Valetta you are one of the millions who didn't

Can you tell us why?

Guy:Incognito

Cuttlefish wrote: »

Like your humour.

You, I presume, are a gawker standing with your BT bags as the marchers file past?

Why would you presume that?


It's humour based in reality anyway. The 3 or 4 people on my Facebook feed that throw up all the links to the protests and the like had pics from the march earlier in the month with their kids with them. A couple had the kids holding signs.

Cuttlefish

papu wrote: »

But millions didn't nationally.

Papu, why didn't you march?

renegademaster

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why would you presume that?


It's humour based in reality anyway. The 3 or 4 people on my Facebook feed that throw up all the links to the protests and the like had pics from the march earlier in the month with their kids with them. A couple had the kids holding signs.

and you find teaching kids to stand up for themselves is wrong or something? THE PROTEST i was at all the kids, and everybody else for that matter had smiles from ear to ear.

Cuttlefish

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why would you presume that?


It's humour based in reality anyway. The 3 or 4 people on my Facebook feed that throw up all the links to the protests and the like had pics from the march earlier in the month with their kids with them. A couple had the kids holding signs.

yes there was a large cross section of society at the march in Cork yesterday,

From kids with parents, to teenagers with parents, to pensioners with kids.

All marching to express their dislike to IW and this extra burden that they are trying to impose on us.

This is a serious issue and flippant remarks don't serve any purpose other than belittle those who decide to make a stand and voice their opinion and not be like the hurler on the ditch.

What are you?

Guy:Incognito

It's your dislike of water charges that the kids are there for, not their own. Small kids know what their parents tell them. I highly doubt theyve been presented with all the facts and made an informed decision that they are against the introduction of water charges.

Cuttlefish

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It's your dislike of water charges that the kids are there for, not their own. Small kids know what their parents tell them. I highly doubt theyve been presented with all the facts and made an informed decision that they are against the introduction of water charges.

And have YOU been presented with all the facts with regards IW?

Guy:Incognito

Cuttlefish wrote: »

And have YOU been presented with all the facts with regards IW?

I haven't expressed any pro Iw opinions at all. I do however believe paying for water is a good thing and metering should be introduced.

Cuttlefish

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I haven't expressed any pro Iw opinions at all. I do however believe paying for water is a good thing and metering should be introduced.

So why wasn't this introduced 20 or 30 years ago?

BTW we are paying for water already

The full facts have not been given to the public?

Government will say until they are blue in the face that water metering is vital, water is vital etc. It took the Troika to bring it in?? Why?

Going Forward

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Was it not in the FG manifesto in 2011?

They said they wouldnt be charging people.

Guy:Incognito

Cuttlefish wrote: »

So why wasn't this introduced 20 or 30 years ago?

BTW we are paying for water already

The full facts have not been given to the public?

Government will say until they are blue in the face that water metering is vital, water is vital etc. It took the Troika to bring it in?? Why?

The "we pay for it already" has been done any amount of times at this stage. Feel free to search my posts on the thread for detailed replies.

It was tried 20 years ago but the will wasn't there to push it through and it was to be done with metering, which is pointless imo.

How come there have never been any threads about the injustices of most of western civilisation paying for water? Other people should be paying for it but not us?

Why should gas, oil or electricity be paid for and not water?

If you don't want to pay for it through the mains, your free to collect any of it that falls from the sky. Treatment to make it potable isn't free though.

UCDVet

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I haven't expressed any pro Iw opinions at all. I do however believe paying for water is a good thing and metering should be introduced.

I think paying for water is a good thing and metering should be introduced too. I've lived in other countries where that is the norm and they seem to get by just fine (and have less wasted water).

For me, the deal breaker is the cost. Both of the taxes we pay here, and of the prices I've seen listed by Irish Water. The amount of tax we pay here is very significantly higher than what I paid in the past - and that's fine if we're getting more services. Water was one of those services we used to it, but our tax hasn't been reduced. We're paying for water twice now.

The prices Irish Water is charging, based on the last figures I saw, means that I'll be paying are four times higher than the rate I paid in my last residence. That's difficult for me to understand. The water doesn't seem any more wet. Maybe it's on par with global averages, I really don't know, I do know it'll be significantly higher than what I can get elsewhere.

And then, from what I can see, Irish Water is a bit of a joke. I'm still awaiting a response to a query I sent them weeks ago, they're so backlogged they've pushed back their target date, they're over-budget, the amount they're charging is higher than their original estimates, and they've got ridiculous compensation for their senior employees. 'Hey John, you didn't meet expectations this year, so you only get a 9% bonus. Try to do better next year!'.

dxhound2005

Cuttlefish wrote: »

So why wasn't this introduced 20 or 30 years ago?

BTW we are paying for water already

The full facts have not been given to the public?

Government will say until they are blue in the face that water metering is vital, water is vital etc. It took the Troika to bring it in?? Why?

It was introduced 20 years ago. But Bertie got in and it was abandoned.

http://struggle.ws/wsm/water.html

If you think btw that we are already paying for water, you are right. But WE is mostly the workers who pay income tax. The rest of society only pay whatever comes out of their VAT. And we are paying for it by borrowing. It is the genius plan from 1977 which Sinn Fein and socialists are still propounding as being the correct economic model. Every other party, including FF themselves and including some which have disappeared have been in power since and at various time tried to escape from that failed policy.

http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/from-1977-the-fianna-fail-manifesto-an-action-plan-for-national-recovery-abridged-version/

gladrags

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Doesn't stop you making definite statements on things though, does it?


Broken promises or not. If they put it in their manifesto you cant turn around 3 Years later and say its a surprise.

It's an opinion based on life experince.

I don't lie,nor am I corrupt ,they are.

Little CuChulainn

gladrags wrote: »

Millions did not vote for water charges.

No one did.

Millions did not vote for this government.

Nor did the majority of the electorate.

Because millions did not march,does not mean they...

Approve water charges,and dissaprove the march.

Try again.

Could you tell me a single tax, charge or bill that people have voted for?

hju6

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Could you tell me a single tax, charge or bill that people have voted for?

Household charge, the LPT, and water charges were all voted for by idiots, who could not spot liars and two faced b'stards at the ballot box.