***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

hju6

VinLieger wrote: »

I like my anonymity thank's but as far as I know there is actually nothing of consequence that it can be used for beyond getting your name, if you know otherwise prove me wrong

Personal Public Service Number Fraud

PPS number misuse is one of the most dangerous types of identity theft. A thief may use your NI number fraudulently to obtain Social Security benefits, welfare benefits, tax refunds, or credit. In other cases, a thief might use your NI number to obtain employment in your name. An identity thief's use of your PPS number can cause you to lose the legitimate benefits to which you are entitled.

http://www.aigdirect.ie/FAQs-Identify-Theft-Insurance_1189_269657.html

micosoft

hju6 wrote: »

So according to you, it's the people's fault for voting in the incompetant politicians, and then when the people stand up and protest against the incompetant politicians it's the people's fault.

So basically, according to you, everything is the people's fault .:eek:

In a democracy, yes. The peeple voted in Fianna Fail three times lest it be forgotten on a platform of give-away policies to everyone. There were alternatives. As far as I recall the electoral roll was not restricted to bankers and developers. Essentially "de peeeple" are protesting against their their own incompetence in voting in incompetent politicians. Which I have no doubt they will repeat.

hju6

hju6 wrote: »

So according to you, it's the people's fault for voting in the incompetant politicians, and then when the people stand up and protest against the incompetant politicians it's the people's fault.

So basically, according to you, everything is the people's fault .:eek:

I agree with HJU6,

I quote pat ribbite every time when asked why he went back on pre election promises... sure isn't that what you say in elections!!!

so it's the voters fault that they paid for a product as sold by labour in this case, only to be duped after the sale has gone thru and the cheque been cashed!! yes it's our fault alright!!

Guy:Incognito

Tony EH wrote: »

You see, this is how rip off Ireland exists.

It's 20c this week.

In a few months it'll be a euro...some time after that a euro fifty...until one day people are on Boards wondering why a pint of tap water cost them 3 euro.
The

:rolleyes:

If they are paying for water (which they are), why should they be castigated for charging someone for some of it?
Why shouldn't beer be free but water should ?both cost money to the pub.

People are free to not go there.

Tony EH

FFS, did you even understand the point.

Going Forward

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

For people who register for a pps with false details or multiple identities.

And the singular mass collection and verification of PPS numbers is making some people a bit edgy.

http://www.herald.ie/news/pps-tally-sparks-fear-of-massive-welfare-fraud-27984842.html

Certain members of the community are suspected of owning several PPS numbers and identities.

VinLieger

hju6 wrote: »

Personal Public Service Number Fraud

PPS number misuse is one of the most dangerous types of identity theft. A thief may use your NI number fraudulently to obtain Social Security benefits, welfare benefits, tax refunds, or credit. In other cases, a thief might use your NI number to obtain employment in your name. An identity thief's use of your PPS number can cause you to lose the legitimate benefits to which you are entitled.

http://www.aigdirect.ie/FAQs-Identify-Theft-Insurance_1189_269657.html

So they will use my number to get employment even though a quick cursory check by any employer will see the number they are given is already employed, also for benefits etc i already am signed up for anything i'm entitled to so again as long as the public service worker who takes their application using my number does their job they will notice something's not right.

Guy:Incognito

Tony EH wrote: »

FFS, did you even understand the point.

If a pub wants to charge 3e for a pint of tap water thats their choice, just like they're free to charge €7.50 for a pint of beer.

Lots of moaning about nothing.

Caliden

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If they are paying for water (which they are), why should they be castigated for charging someone for some of it?
Why shouldn't beer be free but water should ?both cost money to the pub.

People are free to not go there.

It's the timing. Pubs have been paying for water long before Irish Water but now they're jumping on the opportunity to charge for it thinking that people won't know any better.

Irish Water will be charging far far less for 565ml of water. They'll be charging half of 1 cent per litre.

20cent for a pint of water is a ****ing stretch by any account.

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/everything-you-need-to-know-about-water-charges-1.1946900

Tony EH

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If a pub wants to charge 3e for a pint of tap water thats their choice, just like they're free to charge €7.50 for a pint of beer.

Lots of moaning about nothing.

Spectacularly missing the point.

Guy:Incognito

Tony EH wrote: »

Spectacularly missing the point.

The discussion is irrelevant to the thread. It is a private company charging for a product and service that they didn't before. It has no relevance to Iw or the introduction of residential water charges.
Trying to tack it on as part of the case against water charges is disingenuous.

Tony EH

AGAIN, you have missed the point COMPLETELY.

mikom

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The discussion is irrelevant to the thread. It is a private company charging for a product and service that they didn't before.

A private company................... like a privatized company can......... go about charging exorbitant rates

Guy:Incognito

mikom wrote: »

A private company................... like a privatized company can......... go about charging exorbitant rates

Not if there's a body that has to approve their prices. We could call them something like the commision for energy regulation.someone should invent that.

Good job it's not a privatised company anyway.

mikom

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Not if there's a body that has to approve their prices. We could call them something like the commision for energy regulation.

Working well for electricity..............

shinzon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The discussion is irrelevant to the thread. It is a private company charging for a product and service that they didn't before. It has no relevance to Iw or the introduction of residential water charges.
Trying to tack it on as part of the case against water charges is disingenuous.

Epically missing the point, do you think that pub owner came in of a Monday morning and said you know better start charging for water here, no he didn't it wouldnt even have been contemplated if it wasn't for the charges.

Jumping on the bandwagon and you can bet he or she wont be the only one, tip of the iceberg tbh, this is what water charges gets ye folks but continue away defending the indefensible.

Shin

Barely There

shinzon wrote: »

this is what water charges gets ye folks but continue away defending the indefensible.

shinzon wrote: »

Epically missing the point,

:rolleyes:

Too funny.

TheChizler

shinzon wrote: »

Epically missing the point, do you think that pub owner came in of a Monday morning and said you know better start charging for water here, no he didn't it wouldnt even have been contemplated if it wasn't for the charges.

Jumping on the bandwagon and you can bet he or she wont be the only one, tip of the iceberg tbh, this is what water charges gets ye folks but continue away defending the indefensible.

Shin

So who's to blame for the 20c price for a commercial glass of tapwater? IW/Gov for introducing domestic charges, or the pub management for possibly attempting to take advantage of some people not knowing the difference between commercial and domestic supplies?

It could all just be a coincidence in timing as well and they just wanted to deter people from not purchasing high value products.

BoJack Horseman

shinzon wrote: »

it wouldnt even have been contemplated if it wasn't for the charges.

The publican will get a shock when the realise they've been undercharging for tap water for decades!

Shin

Bojack

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

This is such a bogus story - it's about some civil servants in the DSP posting some stuff up on an internal notice board. It's not about officials expressing concerns in their official capacity.
.

This story isn't just so 'bogus'

By Joe Leogue and Juno McEnroe

Irish Water has finally started a hunt for a data protection manager, months after it started the process of demanding and recording customers’ PPS numbers.

Independent TD Catherine Murphy described seeking a data protection manager at this point as “a cart before the horse situation that is typical of Irish Water”.

“It looks like this has not been thought out at all. We saw an example last week of people’s bank details being sent to their landlords, which undermines confidence in Irish Water. This is not a minor issue,” the Kildare North TD warned.

The advertisement for the position, posted online yesterday, comes as ministers defended the right of Irish Water to seek people’s PPS numbers, following reports that staff in one Government department had expressed concerns about handing over details.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/search-for-irish-water-data-boss-begins-295584.html

So they've been demanding sensitive, private data from the tax payers, without an actual data protection manager in place? Next up, hospitals to open up and run for months without doctors.

I wonder if the vacancy was pinned to the internal noticeboard?

Guy:Incognito

Did someone from social protection not leave a laptop full of peoples data in a taxi a year or two back, or somthing similar?

shinzon

Barely There wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Too funny.

Really rolleyes that's the best response you can come up with way to twist the meaning by the way very slick there im rolling in the aisles with your comically good sense of humour.

So who's to blame for the 20c price for a commercial glass of tapwater? IW/Gov for introducing domestic charges, or the pub management for possibly attempting to take advantage of some people not knowing the difference between commercial and domestic supplies?

It could all just be a coincidence in timing as well and they just wanted to deter people from not purchasing high value products

Both and theres something wrong if you think its right but anyways onto bojack below

Bojack

Shin

gladrags

VinLieger wrote: »

I like my anonymity thank's but as far as I know there is actually nothing of consequence that it can be used for beyond getting your name, if you know otherwise prove me wrong

Because of RISK of fraud,it is not in any individuals interest to have their PPS #,distributed to third parties.

Particularly if that risk is high,which in the case of IW,has been proven so.

papu

gladrags wrote: »

Because of RISK of fraud,it is not in any individuals interest to have their PPS #,distributed to third parties.

Particularly if that risk is high,which in the case of IW,has been proven so.

Wheres the proof?

BoJack Horseman

papu wrote: »

Wheres the proof?

Contacting Landlords to verify Tennant details I believe.

gladrags

papu wrote: »

Wheres the proof?

Read the thread.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Did someone from social protection not leave a laptop full of peoples data in a taxi a year or two back, or somthing similar?

They did, but to be fair it was an old compaq.

TheChizler

So what actually is the issue or fear with giving out PPS numbers? Is the worry that IW are going to use it to commit fraud? That they'll sell it to another company to commit fraud? That they'll lose a database somewhere or it will be compromised somehow and whoever finds it will use it to commit fraud (the only real, but unlikely, possibility IMO)?

What are the types of fraud that specific possession of PPSNs opens up? People claiming welfare on your behalf? Registering with the PRTB in your name? Obtain employment in your name? Pay tax in your name? Attempt to set up a bank account in your name?

These are all possibilities I suppose, but how likely? And what's the likelihood of success for the fraudster? I imagine if any of them happened it would be a pain in the butt, but ultimately resolvable with a small bit of effort once discovered. Is the chance of any of these happening worthy of the effort it would take to run with the alternative (welfare dealing with allowances directly)?

People trust their PPSN all the time to organisations with fractions of the resources and scrutiny that IW will be subjected to, employers, employers' contracted accountants, hospital insurance departments (quite often faxed (:eek:), without cover letters or emailed without encryption), the postal system, landlords, the PRTB, bus companies for travel passes, educational institutions (primary, secondary, and tertiary), driving test and licencing centers (nobody kicks up a fuss when the NDLS ask for PPSNs, though they're run by SGS Ireland, a private company), pharmacies when you use the drugs payment card, etc.

It would be nice if IW explained in clear terms why exactly they need the PPSN, but I think it's intended for identity verification and duplication prevention purposes when claiming allowances.

Overall I think they shouldn't be asking for them, but only because the free allowance scheme I think is redundant. It would be fine if the allowance was paid by Welfare, and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure this is fully internal to IW, i.e. you buy your meal but get the ketchup free, however the ketchup is actually factored into the cost of the meal. It might encourage higher users to use less so they will be subsidizing lower users less, but overall I think it's just in there so you feel you're getting better value.

Fuhrer

TheChizler wrote: »

So what actually is the issue or fear with giving out PPS numbers? Is the worry that IW are going to use it to commit fraud? That they'll sell it to another company to commit fraud? That they'll lose a database somewhere or it will be compromised somehow and whoever finds it will use it to commit fraud (the only real, but unlikely, possibility IMO)?

What are the types of fraud that specific possession of PPSNs opens up? People claiming welfare on your behalf? Registering with the PRTB in your name? Obtain employment in your name? Pay tax in your name? Attempt to set up a bank account in your name?

These are all possibilities I suppose, but how likely? And what's the likelihood of success for the fraudster? I imagine if any of them happened it would be a pain in the butt, but ultimately resolvable with a small bit of effort once discovered. Is the chance of any of these happening worthy of the effort it would take to run with the alternative (welfare dealing with allowances directly)?

People trust their PPSN all the time to organisations with fractions of the resources and scrutiny that IW will be subjected to, employers, employers' contracted accountants, hospital insurance departments (quite often faxed (:eek:), without cover letters or emailed without encryption), the postal system, landlords, the PRTB, bus companies for travel passes, educational institutions (primary, secondary, and tertiary), driving test and licencing centers (nobody kicks up a fuss when the NDLS ask for PPSNs, though they're run by SGS Ireland, a private company), pharmacies when you use the drugs payment card, etc.

It would be nice if IW explained in clear terms why exactly they need the PPSN, but I think it's intended for identity verification and duplication prevention purposes when claiming allowances.

Overall I think they shouldn't be asking for them, but only because the free allowance scheme I think is redundant. It would be fine if the allowance was paid by Welfare, and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure this is fully internal to IW, i.e. you buy your meal but get the ketchup free, however the ketchup is actually factored into the cost of the meal. It might encourage higher users to use less so they will be subsidizing lower users less, but overall I think it's just in there so you feel you're getting better value.

Probably more to do with identity fraud. You wouldn't find out about it until you fail a credit check and find out someone using your identity has racked up thousands in debt and you're now liable for it.

TheChizler

Fuhrer wrote: »

Probably more to do with identity fraud. You wouldn't find out about it until you fail a credit check and find out someone using your identity has racked up thousands in debt and you're now liable for it.

Well my point is that identity fraud is not unique to PPSNs, very possible without them. And also why are people more likely to become victims by giving their details to IW than any of those other organisations?