***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Banjo String

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'm sure if you can provide a receipt showing that you have paid your bills then you won't be charged again.

I'll send in my p60 so.

It has all the details of my earnings / tax deductions etc.

Satriale

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But you're not paying double, It doesn't matter how many times you say this it won't make it true.

I didnt say i was, it doesnt matter how many times you say i did, i didnt.
i'm just paying for yours.

Timberrrrrrrr

Satriale wrote: »

I didnt say i was, it doesnt matter how many times you say i did, i didnt.
i'm just paying for yours.

How are you paying for mine?

Larbre34

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Thing is, I wish them luck and I hope they succeed in this battle of double taxation. It cant go on anymore.

But there's people out there that's willing or too frightened and will pay up. So who wins.

Yes. I can understand vulnerable or elderly people not wanting to bring stress on themselves so they will just pay, but I feel the massive numbers - perhaps a majority - that won't, will be enough to ruin economic viability of Irish Water right away. That would be the objective anyway.

For the record, I believe water should be paid for by the consumer, but fairly. I don't believe the charges should be levied until the system has the capital invested to bring it to European norms and I don't believe it should be controlled by a superfluous money pit of a quango that has already absorbed the kind of money that would have repaired the decrepit supply system of several small towns.

geeksauce

Larbre34 wrote: »

Yes. I can understand vulnerable or elderly people not wanting to bring stress on themselves so they will just pay, but I feel the massive numbers - perhaps a majority - that won't, will be enough to ruin economic viability of Irish Water right away. That would be the objective anyway.

For the record, I believe water should be paid for by the consumer, but fairly. I don't believe the charges should be levied until the system has the capital invested to bring it to European norms and I don't believe it should be controlled by a superfluous money pit of a quango that has already absorbed the kind of money that would have repaired the decrepit supply system of several small towns.

Never going to happen, we heard all the same stuff regarding the HHC and LPT, nonsense from keyboard warriors claiming there will be mass disobedience and civil unrest when people are asked to pay the HHC and LPT and sure look how that turned out. Brought in with barely a flicker from anyone.

There were lads on here for weeks talking about it and how the country had enough and people wouldn't pay the HHC and there would be millions protesting and when the time came to protest the same lads were all 'working', or busy doing something else and couldn't make it to the protests. It will be no different this time, the best way to predict future behaviour is to examine past behaviour.

Galwayguy35

I got the application form on friday, I'll fill it and return but I'm not too happy that I will be billed from January when a meter hasn't even been installed yet.

Satriale

geeksauce wrote: »

the best way to predict future behaviour is to examine past behaviour.

Is this just the Protestors or does this also apply to the Blueshirts and the Stickies?:eek:

Larbre34

geeksauce wrote: »

Never going to happen, we heard all the same stuff regarding the HHC and LPT, nonsense from keyboard warriors claiming there will be mass disobedience and civil unrest when people are asked to pay the HHC and LPT and sure look how that turned out. Brought in with barely a flicker from anyone.

There were lads on here for weeks talking about it and how the country had enough and people wouldn't pay the HHC and there would be millions protesting and when the time came to protest the same lads were all 'working', or busy doing something else and couldn't make it to the protests. It will be no different this time, the best way to predict future behaviour is to examine past behaviour.

You're overlooking the fact that the HHC and LPT and even the 2nd home tax were all linked to Revenue which got people over a barrel, tax compliance is vital to folk to carry on the other aspects of their lives.

This isn't the case with the water charges, they are billed as a utility and have no impact on peoples other finances. I believe people view them fundamentally differently.

Peppa Cig

Our meter is now installed.

1. Am i right in saying we pay the capped charge for first six months regardless of how much we use over and above allowances? If so, that means metering will really commence Q2 2015? If thats the case how will they know my meter reading on first day if Q2 (1st April 2015). Do they just take average of previous months?

2. What stops people under declaring the number of adults in house for non metered properties?

Timberrrrrrrr

Larbre34 wrote: »

You're overlooking the fact that the HHC and LPT and even the 2nd home tax were all linked to Revenue which got people over a barrel, tax compliance is vital to folk to carry on the other aspects of their lives.

This isn't the case with the water charges, they are billed as a utility and have no impact on peoples other finances. I believe people view them fundamentally differently.

Yeah

Umtil you get a judgement against you and you have a bad credit rating. See how easy it is to get a mortgage or car loan or even a credit card when you have a bad credit rating due to non payment of bills.

Barely There

The 'I'm not paying' brigade will fold faster than Superman on Laundry Day.

Usual keyboard warrior fighting talk that's been seen in the HHC and property Tax threads, but the reality is that the vast majority of them lack any kind of moral fibre (as evidenced by their willingness to try to parasite off the rest of society) and they soon fall into line.

constance tench

Satriale wrote: »

When you have already paid and they bill you again, what does any business call that?

If you are on a salary of 34,000e, 36.57 of your annual tax goes towards water services...
50,000e...81.25.

[Infrastructure]
http://www.publicpolicy.ie/where-does-your-tax-go/#middle-link

geeksauce

Larbre34 wrote: »

You're overlooking the fact that the HHC and LPT and even the 2nd home tax were all linked to Revenue which got people over a barrel, tax compliance is vital to folk to carry on the other aspects of their lives.

This isn't the case with the water charges, they are billed as a utility and have no impact on peoples other finances. I believe people view them fundamentally differently.

They may view them differently however they will act the same when the time comes, blow a pile of hot air about protests standing up to the man etc.....and when they get the first bill it will be paid, they might have a little mini protest themselves at home and leave it a week or two but will ultimately pay it without so much as a whimper.

Satriale

constance tench wrote: »

If you are on a salary of 34,000e, 36.57 of your annual tax goes towards water services...
50,000e...81.25.

[Infrastructure]
http://www.publicpolicy.ie/where-does-your-tax-go/#middle-link

What does Chuck Feeney have to say about my Rates and the Vat i pay?

dashcamdanny

To the people saying write undelivered on it, or the people who are destroying the pack, surly you are just doing yourself out of money if you have kids in the house.

I did all this rebelling against the state with the household registration fee. They ended up taking it at source and charging me double.

I don't think ignoring the pack is the best advise.

dxhound2005

Larbre34 wrote: »

You're overlooking the fact that the HHC and LPT and even the 2nd home tax were all linked to Revenue which got people over a barrel, tax compliance is vital to folk to carry on the other aspects of their lives.

This isn't the case with the water charges, they are billed as a utility and have no impact on peoples other finances. I believe people view them fundamentally differently.

And you're overlooking the fact that it is in the interests of private property owners that law and order is maintained. The groups which are agititating against water charges are Trotskyites who would abolish the right to private property given the chance. If 80% or 85% pay the TV licence you can expect something similar for any other charge. And the difference is that the bill for water will keep mounting up unlike the TV licence which doesn't involve any arrears when someone who is caught has to go to court.

mrsbyrne

Larbre34 wrote: »

Oh no, Id love to have opted out - if I hadnt already shredded the entire contents of the envelope that arrived.

Wild, just wild :rolleyes:

mrsbyrne

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Put the application pack in the bin or burn it!

.......and pay more then everybody else who completes it and returns it.
that'll show them who's boss.

mrsbyrne

Larbre34 wrote: »

I wish them luck with the million+ households they'll have to take proceedings against.

Is that like the million+ households who weren't going to pay the HC? Or the LPT?

Banjo String

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Is that like the million+ households who weren't going to pay the HC? Or the LPT?

Well when Revenue have the power to deduct at source / refuse tax clearance cert, and a lein placed against the house, it is hardly surprising many people 'complied' (albeit under duress.)

A utility bill which we're already paying for from taxation isn't comparable, and revenue won't have the same powers.

Interesting read here.

Former Chief Executive of Bord Gais John Mullins has strongly criticised the performance of Irish Water to date, saying it suffered from poor leadership and communications.

Mr Mullins hit out at what he called the failure of Irish Water, which began life within Bord Gais, to effectively communicate with customers and politicians alike about its operations.

Mr Mullins, who stood down as Bord Gais CEO in late 2012, said: "The start of Irish Water has not been the best of starts. Communication has been a critical issue. I would say leadership has been a critical issue in conveying messages."

He added: "I headed up a utility here and you had to engage. There were good days when you reduce prices and there were bad days but you just had to front up."

Mr Mulllins was speaking amid growing concern at Irish Water's demand that people provide their PPS numbers in order to claim their free allowances worth €150 a year per adult and €100 per child.

Mr Mullins said Irish Water is not adequately addressing the needs of its customers.

He also raised the point that at present the taxpayer is paying €1.2bn for their water. "It is wholly inefficient, you could take up to 40pc out of that cost over the next decade. It would be a failure of a modern day utility not to see 40pc realised," he said.

Mr Mullins said that while at present more than 4,000 people are employed to provide the service at Irish Water, but he said: "You could and should have 2,500 people running the service across the country."

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-water-criticised-over-failure-to-enage-with-public-30604759.html

Timberrrrrrrr

Banjo String wrote: »

Well when Revenue have the power to deduct at source / refuse tax clearance cert, and a lein placed against the house, it is hardly surprising many people 'complied' (albeit under duress.)

A utility bill which we're already paying for from taxation isn't comparable, and revenue won't have the same powers.

Interesting read here.



http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-water-criticised-over-failure-to-enage-with-public-30604759.html

This is true,

What do people do though when a court judgement is taken against them for non payment? How many will look forward to a future where getting a mortgage, car loan or even a credit card will be difficult because of the judgements against?

lapua20grain

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yeah

Umtil you get a judgement against you and you have a bad credit rating. See how easy it is to get a mortgage or car loan or even a credit card when you have a bad credit rating due to non payment of bills.

And then the sheriff comes to your house to discharge the debt and takes what he deems to have covered the debt

Banjo String

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

This is true,

What do people do though when a court judgement is taken against them for non payment? How many will look forward to a future where getting a mortgage, car loan or even a credit card will be difficult because of the judgements against?

Afaik, only financial institutions such as credit card companies, bank loans, or hp agreements (car finance etc) have the ability to affect your credit rating.

The only option iw have is to pursue someone through the civil courts.

This is how I understand the situation, but I'm open to correction.

lapua20grain

Banjo String wrote: »

Afaik, only financial institutions such as credit card companies, bank loans, or hp agreements (car finance etc) have the ability to affect your credit rating.

The only option iw have is to pursue someone through the civil courts.

This is how I understand the situation, but I'm open to correction.

Any court judgement for non payment affects your credit rating regardless of who it is with

Timberrrrrrrr

Banjo String wrote: »

Afaik, only financial institutions such as credit card companies, bank loans, or hp agreements (car finance etc) have the ability to affect your credit rating.

The only option iw have is to pursue someone through the civil courts.

This is how I understand the situation, but I'm open to correction.

A court judgement against you would surely affect your credit rating. I can see a few bailiff (Sherriff) businesses starting up here soon.

Banjo String

lapua20grain wrote: »

Any court judgement for non payment affects your credit rating regardless of who it is with

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

A court judgement against you would surely affect your credit rating. I can see a few bailiff (Sherriff) businesses starting up here soon.

Actually my mistake, I was confusing the criminal/civil court procedures.

If there is an outbreak of mass civil disobedience by tax payers (already funding water) to refuse to engage with Irish Water, they could overwhelm the courts, and surely result in the meltdown of the Quango.

Certainly going to be an interesting start to the new year.

A Govt in Bolivia fell due to water charges.

Larbre34

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

A court judgement against you would surely affect your credit rating. I can see a few bailiff (Sherriff) businesses starting up here soon.

You mean debt collectors? There are only 16 Sheriffs in the Country and they are licenced by orders of the Ministers for Justice and Finance and have a statutory function, no part of which is beholding to utility companies ahead of their other work.

I think you're overlooking the political impact of the advent of these charges. We saw in May what happened to the Labour party, largely because of water charges. If we surmise that civil disobedience on the matter rises during next year as the charges are billed, and that Irish Water falls short of its funding requirement, the Government will be called upon to bail them out (excuse the multiple puns), which will put pressure on the Govt to either back or abandon its own strategy in the face of a massive public backlash and a general election <12 months away. I would not underestimate the spectre of realpolitik that emerges in Ireland when backbenchers get the jitters.

Banjo string mentions the interesting year ahead - I don't think we'll even to have wait that long as the results of the Dáil by-elections in October may prompt a huge crisis for the Govt.

Hitchens

Can Irish Water apply water services allowances to households without receiving PPS Numbers?

No, your PPS Number and the PPS Number(s) of children (17 years old or under) living with you and who are in receipt of Child Benefit must be included in your application if you would like to apply for water services allowances.




............anyone know what the above means?

TwoShedsJackson

Hitchens wrote: »

Can Irish Water apply water services allowances to households without receiving PPS Numbers?

No, your PPS Number and the PPS Number(s) of children (17 years old or under) living with you and who are in receipt of Child Benefit must be included in your application if you would like to apply for water services allowances.




............anyone know what the above means?

No PPS number, no supply (or very little supply).

Hitchens

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

No PPS number, no supply (or very little supply).

so does that mean they won't supply you with water without an allowance......even though you're paying for it full whack?