***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Beaner1

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Its not that simple simpleton.
I'll pay for water.
I wont pay for Politicians mates being handed jobs they are unqualified for simply because their parents donate money.
I wont pay for Denbis O'Briens life style
I wont pay for bonuses when most peoples wages are going down
I wont pay for politicians lavish expenses.
I wont pay for the gambling debts of others.
Thats just a few of the things my Water rates wont be used for.

No, you were always against paying water. You, like many others, have fabricated reasons for not paying to make your decision seem rational.

tayto lover

Michael Noonan saying that the marches and protests are just the "dying kick" of those who don't want to pay.
He will learn soon enough that's it's the "knockout punch" of the electorate for his breed. He has feasted at the trough for far too long and is as arrogant as Hogan and Kenny.
Let's hope he lives long enough to regret that statement.

partyguinness

zerks wrote: »

You're in the wrong thread,here you go: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057313463

Yes, heaven forbid that someone from the 'outside' should pass comment...:rolleyes:

I don't hate Ireland, I love Ireland but that does not mean I am not able to point out faults.

Beaner1

partyguinness wrote: »

Yes, heaven forbid that someone from the 'outside' should pass comment...:rolleyes:

I don't hate Ireland, I love Ireland but that does not mean I am not able to point out faults.

Same here, living abroad in a high tax country and also pay a good few hundred a year in water charges. No big deal. If I was living in a country with a 120% debt to gdp ratio I think I'd be even more accepting of water charges.

The great unwashed in Ireland are a a horribly selfish and delusional bunch.

Ghost Buster

Beaner1 wrote: »

No, you were always against paying water. You, like many others, have fabricated reasons for not paying to make your decision seem rational.

Nope. Follow my posts back and you will seen that I made several efforts to register with IW but was thwarted by their utter ineptitude. In hind sight this was a good thing as I now know about the nepotism and bonus's.

hju6

Beaner1 wrote: »

Same here, living abroad in a high tax country and also pay a good few hundred a year in water charges. No big deal. If I was living in a country with a 120% debt to gdp ratio I think I'd be even more accepting of water charges.

The great unwashed in Ireland are a a horribly selfish and delusional bunch.

Just like the ones who have run away
And then comment on what they have ran away from

Cantona's Collars

partyguinness wrote: »

Yes, heaven forbid that someone from the 'outside' should pass comment...:rolleyes:

I don't hate Ireland, I love Ireland but that does not mean I am not able to point out faults.

So the fault is with the masses who are sick to the teeth of being gouged by those in power?
FG were elected on the promise of change from the brown envelope,cute hoorism and let's call a spade a spade-criminality of the last government.As soon as they got into power,all talk of change & fairness disappeared.IW was even being drawn up before the Troika came into play,also the HHC was being planned but of course FG lied about that too & blamed Europe before imposing it & using the money in the set up of this new quango.
It's about time there's a campaign to nip this in the bud before we see it in years to come as a subject of another tribunal.

Beaner1

hju6 wrote: »

Just like the ones who have run away
And then comment on what they have ran away from

Yeah, I should probably stop but it does give me a good laugh to see the indignant rants of some thick as **** irish.

Beaner1

zerks wrote: »

So the fault is with the masses who are sick to the teeth of being gouged by those in power?
FG were elected on the promise of change from the brown envelope,cute hoorism and let's call a spade a spade-criminality of the last government.As soon as they got into power,all talk of change & fairness disappeared.IW was even being drawn up before the Troika came into play,also the HHC was being planned but of course FG lied about that too & blamed Europe before imposing it & using the money in the set up of this new quango.
It's about time there's a campaign to nip this in the bud before we see it in years to come as a subject of another tribunal.

You're not being gouged by those in power. You are being gouged by yourselves. You bankrupted the country with Ahern's bought "socialist" elections and property ponzi schemes. You all got what you deserved.

And guess what? The worst has still to come, trust me.

hju6

Beaner1 wrote: »

Yeah, I should probably stop but it does give me a good laugh to see the indignant rants of some thick as **** irish.

Well in that case you are insulting a lot of your fellow country men on this thread.

But unfortunately for you, you're not insulting me

gladrags

gladrags wrote: »

Another Protest Era Dawns

Another protest era dawns.
Through the street's we march upon.
For the future of our ilk and kind.
As they do not pay us any mind.

Send a message loud and clear.
Make them listen,make them hear.
The signs are there,they will not hide.
Behind deception,cast in lies.

Their time to fall is drawing near.
Hurry now,but have no fear.
They will try to blind you once again.
Take this courage,take this pen.

We will not be taken by their greed.
While so many,live in need.
For those who care not to be pawns.
Another protest era dawns.

Gladrags

Curly Judge wrote: »

Is that from the Michael D. Higgins school of verse?

No

He's from Galway,the word "bay" is an essential requirement of verse,from dabbling poets in that neck of the woods!

ROCKMAN

So honestly what type of figures are people expecting to see today countrywide ?
Have the government' s sweeteners worked or have their little comments and speeches only enflamed the situation.

Will 100K + (only an average of just over 1 K per march) be deemed a success ? or do the organisers need even more to march ??

Want figure would Irish Water /Government be happy to see so they can claim some sort of PR victory .?

partyguinness

hju6 wrote: »

Just like the ones who have run away
And then comment on what they have ran away from

LMAO.....yes because anyone Irish living abroad has 'run away'. What an ignorant little comment.

I love it.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Michael Noonan saying that the marches and protests are just the "dying kick" of those who don't want to pay.
He will learn soon enough that's it's the "knockout punch" of the electorate for his breed. He has feasted at the trough for far too long and is as arrogant as Hogan and Kenny.
Let's hope he lives long enough to regret that statement.

He is so out of touch with the mood of the population. There are many people who believe paying for usage is the correct way. It's the paying for incompetent managers, bonuses, gyms, and all the other perks they have felt were the important issues to deal with first.

To all those who have concerns about attending a protest as you don't want to be aligned with the "won't pay" group, I think you should go regardless, for your own reasons and make it known why you are there. This inner circle, jobs for the boys, spend as much money on yourselves as you like way of governance has to stop. This could be your only chance to make these feelings known on an large scale.

shamrock2004

Beaner1 wrote: »

You're not being gouged by those in power. You are being gouged by yourselves. You bankrupted the country with Ahern's bought "socialist" elections and property ponzi schemes. You all got what you deserved.

And guess what? The worst has still to come, trust me.

I'm sorry but that's a sweeping statement. I never lived beyond my means. I was only out of uni when the economy crumbled. Yet i'm being punished, and I deserve it?

Ghost Buster

partyguinness wrote: »

LMAO.....yes because anyone Irish living abroad has 'run away'. What an ignorant little comment.

I love it.

Living abroad seems to be all it takes to give you and beaner a smug superiority complex. Get over it. Its not 1970 anymore. Lots of people do it. I have but It doesn't make me arrogantly throw about insulting generalisations

shamrock2004

partyguinness wrote: »

LMAO.....yes because anyone Irish living abroad has 'run away'. What an ignorant little comment.

I love it.

Well that's akin to you and your mate beaner's sweeping statements earlier on.

Beaner1

shamrock2004 wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's a sweeping statement. I never lived beyond my means. I was only out of uni when the economy crumbled. Yet i'm being punished, and I deserve it?

No, there were plenty of innocents like myself. But most of the water protestors were deep in the property/welfare bubble for years.

Irish Steve

I hope that the following suggestion covers the feelings of enough people that it might represent the start of a petition campaign that needs to be sent to every TD and minister in the country. If enough of us send it, there is a chance that they might start to listen, as it's clear that some of them are disregarding the planned marches today, and those marches don't represent what I want to happen, as water charges as such, properly managed and structured are appropriate for the future of a secure water system in Ireland.

Yes, it's long, and detailed, so that they get the message clearly. If you agree with the sentiment I've outlined, please send a copy to your local TDs, or ministers as appropriate. If enough people send it, maybe, just maybe, things will be changed going forward.

We can but hope.

---

Dear Minister. (OR TD as appropriate)

I wish to place on record my dissatisfaction and concern that the systems being put in place for charging for water have been set up with a considerable lack of public consultation and acceptance, and with less than adequate political debate and engagement in the process.

At the outset, I need to state clearly that I accept that is is necessary to take water and waste water services out of the control and inappropriate influence of stroke politics.

I also need to be clear that I also accept that the metering of water use is appropriate, and needed to ensure that water is not wasted, and that charges made for water reflect the usage of the resources.

The introduction of a new management body for water and waste services is appropriate and necessary, as it is clear that there has been significant and inappropriate political manipulation of the management of water services for nearly 3 decades, and a crippling lack of appropriate investment in the infrastructure of water and waste water as a result.

However, that is where I must now disagree with the method that the Government has been using to deal with the problem of charging for water.

Irish Water has been created as a super quango that is a new management structure that will be in addition to the already significant and in some cases ineffective structure that has been in place within the local authorities and local councils that have been providing the services over the last period of time.

In specific terms, I have the following problems with the Irish Water structure, management and operational plans.

The present CEO, Mr Tierney has a considerably less than spectacular record as a senior manager in a semi state organisation, and his appointment to the role at IW is inappropriate, and offensive to many tax payers.

The entire structure of the previous water service providers has been moved to Irish Water with no review or reduction in the numbers of people moved across, regardless of skills, experience, suitability or duplication of roles. The ESRI has stated on the record that the number employed by Irish Water is excessive, by probably as many as 2000 people. Significant numbers of new management personnel have also been recruited directly into Irish Water, with many of them coming from semi state backgrounds, and at significantly inflated payment scales.

We were promised significant change in public service by the Government when they were elected, one of those changes being the need to make State services fit for purpose, and employing over 2000 extra people in Irish Water is a failure to make Irish Water an acceptable and appropriate body to deal with the transition to non political control of Water services.

The "old" state concept of entitlement, and permanent lifetime job positions regardless of skills and experience is inappropriate to a company that will be changing significantly and rapidly over the next 10 years, Irish Water needs to be primarily customer focussed, and the track record of semi state bodies in this area is less than encouraging. The perceived public emphasis on revenue, and registration has not been balanced with any information on the plans of Irish Water to deal with the huge backlog of network issues that are resulting in the loss of over 40% of treated water. Spending significant sums on things like Staff Gyms is inappropriate to the work that Irish Water has to fulfil, and gives a completely wrong impression of the focus and emphasis of the work of Irish Water.

Irish Water needs to be completely accountable to the political systems of the country, and open to examination of operations by the committees of the Government.

Irish Water needs to be structured in such a way that it cannot be privatised or otherwise sold to the private sector without the specific and constitutional approval of the people of the country.

The "bonus" culture and perks concept as presently being revealed is offensive to most tax payers, and inappropriate at this stage of the development of a new company.

The management of Irish Water needs to engage with its customers in accordance with the terms that were outlined on their web site. At present, this is manifestly not happening.

Where water is supplied that is not of an acceptable quality, recognition of this must be made in the level of charges.

Where water is supplied that is potable, but causes significant and expensive damage to the fittings and services of the consumer (as a result of excessive hardness for example) this needs to be recognised in the charging structure, and if local treatment such as softening is required to prevent damage, the allowances given need to recognise this extra requirement and usage.

We are repeatedly being told that the recovery is happening. At present, it is not all embracing, and there are many sections of the community that are not participating in that recovery, and they do not have the resources to be able to make new extra contributions to the national pot, and will not benefit from the recent tax reductions, as their circumstances are such that they are not paying income tax, as they have no income, or are on very much reduced income due to the changed circumstances they found themselves in.

There is a massive problem with an increasing disconnect between the "political structure", and the people serving that structure, and the rest of the community. We have seen corruption, cronyism, inappropriate payments being made out of charitable funding, inflated and inappropriate allowances and expense claims, and many other issues that have demonstrated that "the system" is no longer serving the people,. but is serving as a vehicle that allows the select few to benefit in ways that are not open or accessible to the majority. We were promised that this was going to change, but it has not, in some areas, it has become worse. That is no longer acceptable, as the people who are paying directly for these abuses have no control or influence over how that money is being spent.

I look forward to hearing from you

Yours sincerely.

Little CuChulainn

ROCKMAN wrote: »

So honestly what type of figures are people expecting to see today countrywide ?
Have the government' s sweeteners worked or have their little comments and speeches only enflamed the situation.

Will 100K + (only an average of just over 1 K per march) be deemed a success ? or do the organisers need even more to march ??

Want figure would Irish Water /Government be happy to see so they can claim some sort of PR victory .?

It's really irrelevant. There will be no reliable figures available just like last time.

Ghost Buster

Beaner1 wrote: »

No, there were plenty of innocents like myself. But most of the water protestors were deep in the property/welfare bubble for years.

Wow. You have me rumbled. No really, that's me.















actuallt no. You're wrong. As usual

VinLieger

Just saw this article in the journal about all the fires that the fire brigade had to put out last night

http://www.thejournal.ie/halloween-dublin-fire-brigade-calls-1756967-Nov2014/?utm_source=facebook_short

It got me thinking I wonder how many of the people involved with setting those fires will also be out protesting paying for water today after being involved in wasting god knows how many litres last night

Streetwalker

ROCKMAN wrote: »

So honestly what type of figures are people expecting to see today countrywide ?
Have the government' s sweeteners worked or have their little comments and speeches only enflamed the situation.

Will 100K + (only an average of just over 1 K per march) be deemed a success ? or do the organisers need even more to march ??

Want figure would Irish Water /Government be happy to see so they can claim some sort of PR victory .?

The numbers protesting aren't the numbers the government are worried about it's the numbers who are refusing to even send back the water scam forms that are the real stats. Even if a 1/4 of all those people who are expected to pay don't then it's game over for IW. At present you are looking at 2/3rd's who haven't sent back the form and of the 1/3 returned many are incomplete or spoilt.:)

shamrock2004

Beaner1 wrote: »

No, there were plenty of innocents like myself. But most of the water protestors were deep in the property/welfare bubble for years.

How do you know? You haven't been on any of the marches please elaborate...

partyguinness

zerks wrote: »

So the fault is with the masses who are sick to the teeth of being gouged by those in power?
FG were elected on the promise of change from the brown envelope,cute hoorism and let's call a spade a spade-criminality of the last government.As soon as they got into power,all talk of change & fairness disappeared.IW was even being drawn up before the Troika came into play,also the HHC was being planned but of course FG lied about that too & blamed Europe before imposing it & using the money in the set up of this new quango.
It's about time there's a campaign to nip this in the bud before we see it in years to come as a subject of another tribunal.

...and you believed it? Shame on you.

What will the slow learners realise that the politicians do not run the country and (I hate to use this expression) they are all the same. Interested in two things- 1. getting elected and 2. staying elected.

It's not going to change until people with real proven abilities are elected. Instead we just have a rabble of former teachers, lawyers with huge egos, a local wheeler dealers.

Let's put this in context, nearly 50% of German politicians have Phds. In other words experienced highly educated people are running the country...and very well by all accounts.

In lot of places on Ireland, that sort of experience or education would actually be your death knell. You have 'notions' or some sort of elitist lefty hairy liberal. So we stick to local two bit auctioneer/farmer/ 'business man'/ tool hire guy- non threatening

People that can barely write their own name but sure they're sound out and didn't they get a massive grant for the local GAA pitch?

That's the problem. We elect 'politicians' for the national parliament based on local concerns. Never going to work.

Streetwalker

VinLieger wrote: »

Just saw this article in the journal about all the fires that the fire brigade had to put out last night

http://www.thejournal.ie/halloween-dublin-fire-brigade-calls-1756967-Nov2014/?utm_source=facebook_short

It got me thinking I wonder how many of the people involved with setting those fires will also be out protesting paying for water today after being involved in wasting god knows how many litres last night

More than likely not many. Most of the scumbags who light bonfires in housing estates etc.. are to lazy to make an effort at protesting. It's the working,middle and coping classes that will be making their voices heard today.

ROCKMAN

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's really irrelevant. There will be no reliable figures available just like last time.

While I agree with you about the figures from the last march ,I actually think that the figures from today will be a lot easier to get accurate and finally give a true gauge on the nation's feelings not just a biased slant from one side or the other.

tayto lover

VinLieger wrote: »

Just saw this article in the journal about all the fires that the fire brigade had to put out last night

http://www.thejournal.ie/halloween-dublin-fire-brigade-calls-1756967-Nov2014/?utm_source=facebook_short

It got me thinking I wonder how many of the people involved with setting those fires will also be out protesting paying for water today after being involved in wasting god knows how many litres last night

Jesus. You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. Pathetic actually.

Little CuChulainn

ROCKMAN wrote: »

While I agree with you about the figures from the last march ,I actually think that the figures from today will be a lot easier to get accurate and finally give a true gauge on the nation's feelings not just a biased slant from one side or the other.

With so many sporadic marches who will give the figures other than the organisers?

partyguinness

Streetwalker wrote: »

More than likely not many. Most of the scumbags who light bonfires in housing estates etc.. are to lazy to make an effort at protesting. It's the working,middle and coping classes that will be making their voices heard today.

On a slightly similar vein, I can never understand politicians obsession with the tabloids. A recent study showed that 70% of red top tabloid readers have never voted but yet the papers are pandered to as if they matter...