***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

This whole hullabaloo about irish water is the greatest example of what happens when you elect a bunch of independents . I don't see them whipping up hysteria or putting the same energy into giving up the €12000 that they all get for turning up for work or the thousands of euro they pocket for unvouched'expenses'. These are things that they could resolve at the stroke of a pen next week if they wanted to, but that won't happen.

So when is Mick Wallace,Claire Daly, Boyd-Barrett, or any of them going to give up the obscence perks?
You got it,never. Much easier whip up hysteria about 'free' water. Same old story the workers will pay through the nose and the pyjama and tracksuit brigade will lie in bed and wait for the welfare cheques to come through the letterbox.

Banjo String

realdanbreen wrote: »

So when is Mick Wallace,Claire Daly, Boyd-Barrett, or any of them going to give up the obscence perks?
You got it,never. Much easier whip up hysteria about 'free' water. Same old story the workers will pay through the nose and the pyjama and tracksuit brigade will lie in bed and wait for the welfare cheques to come through the letterbox.

I didn't make the protest today due to being out of the country with work. However I seen many, many pics of various protests from various parts of the island.

Didn't see anyone in a pair of pjs though.

Fred Swanson

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Iwasfrozen

The_Valeyard wrote: »

City centre was around or less than 10K

Ok, so about 1/7th of the number who marched last time. Good to know.

oppenheimer1

shamrock2004 wrote: »

Can people still not see that this is a tax which in no way benefits the ordinary citizens?! Kenny has confirmed what Hogan said yesterday. This is about broadening the tax base and unduly plugging a financial defecit under the pretext of improving water facilities. what absolute horse ****. Since their tenure, FG have done nothing to fix the inordinate expenditure of this country.

Nothing? I guess the budget cutbacks were all imaginary so.

Tony EH

There is no way that just 10,000 marched today.

Iwasfrozen

Tony EH wrote: »

There is no way that just 10,000 marched today.

It wasn't any more. This protest was much smaller than the last. The next one will probably be smaller again.

wandatowell

Christ. Enda Kenny's Government is very frustrating.

Its hard to comprehend how as a country we have gotten through the mess that was the recession, things seem to be on the up yet this Government is so inconsistant people are getting more and more disillusioned every day.

It goes from PR disaster to PR disaster.

deco nate

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It wasn't any more. This protest was much smaller than the last. The next one will probably be smaller again.

The last one people came from all over Ireland to protest.
This time there were protests in towns and city's all over Ireland. 100,000 at the last one, this time over a 120,000.
Thats not getting smaller, it's growing.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Iwasfrozen

deco nate wrote: »

The last one people came from all over Ireland to protest.
This time there were protests in towns and city's all over Ireland. 100,000 at the last one, this time over a 120,000.
Thats not getting smaller, it's growing.

The last time around 70k people protested, most of these were from Dublin this time it was less than 10k.

The regional protests were an idiotic idea. Large protests in the capital draw media attention, regional protests only serve to draw people away from the Dublin protest and reduce its overall impact.

This protest was smaller than the last, the next one on Dec 13th will be smaller again, IW is here to stay the protesters have lost, this wont be another shoe tax.

Fred Swanson

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Streetwalker

Obvious now IW are on the way out from the numbers on yesterday's march. All classes of people coming together to let their thoughts be known on the FG/labour axis of corruption setting up the water scam for their buddies. This will bring down the government yet mark my words.

deco nate

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The last time around 70k people protested, most of these were from Dublin this time it was less than 10k.

The regional protests were an idiotic idea. Large protests in the capital draw media attention, regional protests only serve to draw people away from the Dublin protest and reduce its overall impact.

This protest was smaller than the last, the next one on Dec 13th will be smaller again, IW is here to stay the protesters have lost, this wont be another shoe tax.

You really don't get it!
In dublin today city centre was about 10 k, that was just one of many going on thru out the city. Also all over Ireland, a lot of people cannot afford to go to Dublin to protest, ego protests all over the country, higher turn outs. Saying only 10 k turned out is bull ****!

Edit:also it was more like 100,000(the first protest) , and saying most of them were from Dublin is also bs. People travelled from all over Ireland to attend it

Rightwing

Rightwing wrote: »

The Government need to go back to the drawing board, paying many salaries of €100K+ for this quango is outrageous.

We are not paying for water, we are paying for a quango.

this is the whole point.

most of us would be happy to pay for decent clean water. What we dont want to pay for is salaries of 100K (to begin with in Year 1 of Irish Water), bonuses when not one bill has even been paid yet and most houses dont have a meter and nobody answers the phone at IW. We dont want to pay for inefficiencies and quangos. Those days are gone. Does Enda Kenny think we're stupid? This is what got us into such a mess in the first place - and why the Troika were here.

I'm broke from all these charges - bins, TV Licence, Property tax - but I would pay for water as it is a valuable commodity. I wont pay for all of the above ****e that goes with it (in this country)!!!!! :mad:

Fred Swanson

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

........only because Revenue Commissioners were collecting it - big difference.

Iwasfrozen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It wasn't any more. This protest was much smaller than the last. The next one will probably be smaller again.

I'd say you're really pissed off that this march was actually waaaay bigger than the last and got huge coverage on the RTE News last night - and have a look at the papers this morning if you're still unsure how "small" it was.
Sorry to burst your bubble

Banjo String

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Oh no. :eek:

If only this very subject, and why they cannot deduct at source or refuse TCC to self employed etc wasn't already covered about a thousand times at this stage in the thread.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The regional protests were an idiotic idea. Large protests in the capital draw media attention , regional protests only serve to draw people away from the Dublin protest and reduce its overall impact.

Yeah, funnily enough it was like a media blackout yesterday regarding the protests.....
With Just aboutevery single newspaper having the protests as front page news, every radio station having it as the news slot headline, and every tv news coverage devoting significant airtime to it.

You post some silly guff at times, half time I reckon you're on the troll tbh.

Irish Water is already dead in the water before it issues a bill, Kenny threatening non payers yesterday was the sign of a leader who has clearly lost it, a man so out of touch, and completely holding his electorate in contempt.

On the same day hundreds of thousands of ordinary decent people protesting on the countries streets, a poll reveals that Sinn Fein have now overtaken fine Gael as the most popular party in the country by a massive four points.

The writings on the wall for Kenny and for Irish Water. If their isn't isn't a political, internal coup from within to oust him, he could potentially make the party implode.

Panic stations all around. I think it's gas.

The arrogance and sneering, the dividing and conquering has all backfired, the Govt are about to reap what they sowed.

Irish Steve

Irish Steve wrote: »

The problem with that is there's no incentive to be economic, and no incentive to fix broken or leaking taps or other problems within the consumer's own premises.

There's also then the problem that it makes finding leaks harder, if an area is metered, then the water into the area should match the usage, and if it doesn't, there's a leak issue to be found and fixed.

The best system is metering, in that it means that those that use the water pay for it, which might make people think about the cost of watering the grass, or washing the car with a hose every week, or filling a fish pond or swimming pool from the mains supply ( and yes, my fish pond will cost me over €50 to fill from the mains if I were to be so stupid). The only way to have a fair charging system is to have a similar system to that used for gas and electricity, which is metering on the source of supply.

It might be more appropriate to have a standing charge for each property, and then the usage charge on top, so that the overall cost is shared across all users, but that seems to have been discounted, though I'm not sure why.

It's the same for motor fuel, or heating oil, or for pretty much any other variable use product, the consumer pays for what they use, and I don't hear complaints about any of them, as it is the best system for recovering the cost of supply of the product.

The problem for most people is that the IW concept is likely to result in significantly higher charges for supply that have very little to do with the cost of providing the water, or supporting the network, and everything to do with the snout in trough culture that has permeated the state services sector, and I can't trust that the regulator will control the spend at IW acceptably,

I've seen semi states at work first hand, and it wasn't a pretty sight, and the most sickening aspect was the "entitled" mentality of the people that were abusing the system.

one of the best article on this thread and I agree completely! The concept of paying is right and its not whats annoying most of us. Its the idea of this huge quango with huge running costs that we're going to have to pay for from now on..... bonuses despite poor performance, gyms etc etc. The bills and costs will rise year on year.... in every budget ..... wait and see!! Irish Water is not a Google or Facebook company - but its acting like it is! If the Revenue Commissioners collected this charge as they did with the property tax we would be happier because they are not some fat quango brought in and paid huge salaries to implement another charge. Thats what most people are upset about.

Banjo String

Banjo String wrote: »

Oh no. :eek:

If only this very subject, and why they cannot deduct at source or refuse TCC to self employed etc wasn't already covered about a thousand times at this stage in the thread.



Yeah, funnily enough it was like a media blackout yesterday regarding the protests.....
With Just aboutevery single newspaper having the protests as front page news, every radio station having it as the news slot headline, and every tv news coverage devoting significant airtime to it.

You post some silly guff at times, half time I reckon you're on the troll tbh.

Irish Water is already dead in the water before it issues a bill, Kenny threatening non payers yesterday was the sign of a leader who has clearly lost it, a man so out of touch, and completely holding his electorate in contempt.

On the same day hundreds of thousands of ordinary decent people protesting on the countries streets, a poll reveals that Sinn Fein have now overtaken fine Gael as the most popular party in the country by a massive four points.

The writings on the wall for Kenny and for Irish Water. If their isn't isn't a political, internal coup from within to oust him, he could potentially make the party implode.

Panic stations all around. I think it's gas.

The arrogance and sneering, the dividing and conquering has all backfired, the Govt are about to reap what they sowed.

what the arrogant Phil Hogan sowed!!! His contempt for the people of this country was staggering - where is he now? ...........on his fat ass in Europe laughing at us all and laughing at the mess this is.

Barely There

Tiny turnout in my town.

Slowly the realisation is starting to dawn on people that the choice is not between paying and not paying, it's between paying through income tax or paying through a direct charge.

It suits most of the hardcore protestors to keep the current model, as many of them have never worked and would prefer that the rest of us continue to fund their water consumption.

Banjo String

Barely There wrote: »

Tiny turnout in my town.

Slowly the realisation is starting to dawn on people that the choice is not between paying and not paying, it's between paying through income tax or paying through a direct charge.

It suits most of the hardcore protestors to keep the current model, as many of them have never worked and would prefer that the rest of us continue to fund their water consumption .

Lol, yeah they're all dole heads on yesterday's marches. Jesus.

Tullamore

Thousands of anti water charge protesters carried a coffin through the streets of Tullamore in Co Offaly this afternoon.

Despite intermittent and at times heavy downpours, gardai said some 2,000 attended the protest. Marchers carried a coffin to symbolise the death of Irish water.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/tens-of-thousands-protest-against-water-charges-1.1985010?page=2

twowheelsgood

Banjo String wrote: »

The writings on the wall for Kenny and for Irish Water. If their isn't isn't a political, internal coup from within to oust him, he could potentially make the party implode.

Yes, their could be moves to oust him - I expect there will be before the next general election.

But how might make the party implode? (whatever that means)

And more importantly, how will this bring an end to the government?

Banjo String

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Yes, their could be moves to oust him - I expect there will be before the next general election.

But how might make the party implode? (whatever that means)

http://bit.ly/1qk9cdr

twowheelsgood wrote: »

And more importantly, how will this bring an end to the government?

Google vat on children's shoes.

twowheelsgood

Banjo String wrote: »

Google vat on children's shoes.

Don't need to. I remember 'aul Jim.

If the current government were depending on the support of an independent socialist they would have fallen a long time ago.

But they are not. They have a sizable majority and a serious number of either FG or Lab TDs will need to in effect commit political suicide to bring about the end you desire. Do you think that that will happen?

20Cent

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Don't need to. I remember 'aul Jim.

If the current government were depending on the support of an independent socialist they would have fallen a long time ago.

But they are not. They have a sizable majority and a serious number of either FG or Lab TDs will need to in effect commit political suicide to bring about the end you desire. Do you think that that will happen?

They are currently behind Sinn Fein in the polls, Sinn Fein in the middle of a sex abuse scandal. It doesn't get much worse than that for a party.

twowheelsgood

20Cent wrote: »

They are currently behind Sinn Fein in the polls, Sinn Fein in the middle of a sex abuse scandal. It doesn't get much worse than that for a party.

Well Sinn Fein are pretty immune to scandals. :pac:

But in any case, the question remains. How will the government fall?

Banjo String

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Don't need to. I remember 'aul Jim.

If the current government were depending on the support of an independent socialist they would have fallen a long time ago.

But they are not. They have a sizable majority and a serious number of either FG or Lab TDs will need to in effect commit political suicide to bring about the end you desire. Do you think that that will happen?

What I reckon could happen, with the latest polls showing only 2 out of five (40%) intending to pay any water charges.

According to the poll, only two in five people will pay the water charges and over half resent Irish Water's demand to divulge their PPS numbers.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/water/nations-reaction/open-revolt-shock-poll-reveals-coalition-in-meltdown-30710576.html
There isn't a snowballs chance in hell that Irish Water can continue in its current form, without revenues coming in, it will have to fall.

If that happens, and with all the cash wasted on its creation, expect a serious backlash from within FG and Labour.

Enda revealed yesterday what we all knew.


Irish Water was never about improving water quality, infrastructure, or conserving water.

With his "raise income tax by 4%" threat, he showed his true colours. The Govt want another Revenue stream. Pure and simple.

gladrags

"Up to 150,000 people were out on streets up and down the country in protest against water charges.
The organisers of more than 100 protests expressed delight at the massive turnout, claiming that well over 150,000 people attended, despite torrential rain.
The Right2Water campaign said: "Despite torrential rain, our expectations have been massively exceeded, with well over 150,000 people coming out in every neighbourhood, town and village to send a clear message to the Government: water is a human right, and we demand the abolition of domestic water charges.

The group said details of a major rally outside the Dáil on December 10 - International Human Rights Day - will be announced in the coming days."

[url]Http://www.broadsheet.ie[/url] for paper headlines.

A bit dissapointed, thought it was well in excess of 150,000.

Roll on Dec 10th

lightspeed

Apologies if it has already been commented on but rte news states today that our beloved leader, Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said that if water rates were abolished, it would mean a 4% increase in income tax.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1101/656296-water-reaction/

Considering we just had a budget were they reduced income tax by 1%, it really exposes how much he government have underestimated probably both the budget needed and how politically suicidal these water charges are for them.

The government was previously making the argument that people would be better off after this recent budget in spite of water charge.

But clearly, if the reductions given in income tax & USC changes resulted in savings of little more than 1% and the water charges equate to an increase of 4%, it clearly indicates that government are a completely and utter fraud. Completely lacking in competence or credibility when it come to financial matters.

I personally dont oppose taxes designed to prevent over usage of water but it is all the other waste and indirect taxes that are a joke. The €160 tv license fee which is to be changed to a broadcasting fee to cover people who watch tv on smartphones etc. That along with such high road tolls and car tax, transport costs. It is the wrong time for these charges and I think the government have pushed their luck.