***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

twowheelsgood

Banjo String wrote: »

What I reckon could happen, with the latest polls showing only 2 out of five (40%) intending to pay any water charges. .

It could be 0%. You still need a serious number of government TDs to vote themselves out of a job. It could happen - this is in effect what the Greens did - but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Banjo String wrote: »

Irish Water was never about improving water quality, infrastructure, or conserving water.

With his "raise income tax by 4%" threat, he showed his true colours. The Govt want another Revenue stream. Pure and simple.

Personally I always it was primarily about another revenue stream. And it’s not for the government, it’s for the state.

As for the “threat”. Well if IW does fall as you expect then we will have to close the deficit in some other way and a tax rise is one such way.

Perhaps you feel, given how unpopular water charges are, that the government should pay it and not go looking for more taxes from the people to do so?

lightspeed

lightspeed wrote: »

Apologies if it has already been commented on but rte news states today that our beloved leader, Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said that if water rates were abolished, it would mean a 4% increase in income tax.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1101/656296-water-reaction/

Considering we just had a budget were they reduced income tax by 1%, it really exposes how much he government have underestimated probably both the budget needed and how politically suicidal these water charges are for them.

The government was previously making the argument that people would be better off after this recent budget in spite of water charge.

But clearly, if the reductions given in income tax & USC changes resulted in savings of little more than 1% and the water charges equate to an increase of 4%, it clearly indicates that government are a completely and utter fraud. Completely lacking in competence or credibility when it come to financial matters.

There was a good piece on the radio one of the mornings during the week and essentially it said that it costs a lot more to fund something through taxation than through a direct charge and (before Enda kenny even mentioned that above) people would have to pay a lot more through taxation to make up for the water charge and on top of that those who pay tax have to cover those who don't so that pushes it up again.

People really need to cop themselves on. After paying water charges I'll be a few hundred euro better off next year than this year due to reductions taxation in the budget. We are much better off with the direct water charge than increased taxes and all this protesting is basically protesting in favour of increased taxes.

HIB

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Yes, their could be moves to oust him - I expect there will be before the next general election.

But how might make the party implode? (whatever that means)

And more importantly, how will this bring an end to the government?

Polls in the independent today suggest huge appetite for a new pargy to be formed.
Some fg and labour TDs might decide to desert the sinking ship.
This would definitely bring down the government.
On the whole though, I can't see it happening. They'll all rally together against the 'evils' of sinn fein and pledge to keep the government running come hell, high water, or adverse public opinion.

seligehgit

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They have been very fair with me so far. I got an acknowledgement for my application. The application pack was very clear and informative. The meter installers were nothing but polite and helpful.

I pay no heed to tabloid shock horror stories about gyms and bonuses and all that other nonsense. Water supply and waste water treatment have suffered from not having direct charges. I will judge them on their performance once they have been given a chance to get up and running.

Got nothing re an acknowledgement of my return of application form?

lightspeed

twowheelsgood wrote: »

It could be 0%. You still need a serious number of government TDs to vote themselves out of a job. It could happen - this is in effect what the Greens did - but I wouldn’t hold my breath.



Personally I always it was primarily about another revenue stream. And it’s not for the government, it’s for the state.

As for the “threat”. Well if IW does fall as you expect then we will have to close the deficit in some other way and a tax rise is one such way.

Perhaps you feel, given how unpopular water charges are, that the government should pay it and not go looking for more taxes from the people to do so?

There are a lot of real reforms the government could do if they could actually follow through on their stated goals.

They could over more tax credits for mothers returning to work and offer subsidised childcare instead the child benefit for all regardless of income. Child benefit along with rent relief for single mothers only design was for Fianna Fail to buy elections which they dont on the back of a booming economy from a house of cards that has since collapsed.


Throughout the past 20 years, we have had government's buying elections by offering welfare were they can and offsetting the cost onto the working class who are paying 51% income tax a big load of other indirect taxes.

Why are struggling families having to pay €160 for tv license to subsidise people like Ryan Tubridy or Pat Kenny to earn hundreds of thousands each year working only a few hours a week?

How about the radio stations that are not getting enough ratings to survive get shut down and tv license reduced.

Another government quango = not the answer

twowheelsgood

HIB wrote: »

Polls in the independent today suggest huge appetite for a new pargy to be formed.
Some fg and labour TDs might decide to desert the sinking ship.
This would definitely bring down the government.

And the same TDs would then be rejected by the voters who would see their moves as being wholly cynical and self-serving.

It could happen but I doubt it.

pc7

If an election was held tomorrow FG would likely still be in power imo, in some sort of coalition form. If not them the mix would probably be FF, SF & independents, would anything be different?
Listening to des o'malley the other day he said they way parties are funded now would make it next to impossible to start a new party (not sure how right:wrong that is).
At the time of the troika etc I was told by someone involved in politics that they were told 1k per house (be it property tax or water) they didn't care what it was but that was the figure. Don't know how true that is but it seems fairly close to the end goal we are facing

lightspeed

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1101/656305-poll-politics/

"When asked about party leaders, Enda Kenny is the least popular with 67% saying they are "Dissatisfied" with him as Taoiseach, Fianna Fáil's Micheál Martin the most popular with 54% saying they are "Dissatisfied" with the way he is doing his job.

Both Labour's Joan Burton and Sinn Féin's Gerry Adams scored 56% dissatisfaction".

Really shows the poor state of politics in Ireland. Micheál Martin is the most popular partly leader with disapproval rating of 54%.

twowheelsgood

lightspeed wrote: »

Really shows the poor state of politics in Ireland. Micheál Martin is the most popular partly leader with disapproval rating of 54%.

Hardly. The government leaders are attempting to implement an unpopular measure and Gerry has a few problems following him around at present to MM is top of the heap by default. 54% disapproval is pretty bad for him in the circumstances.

HIB

twowheelsgood wrote: »

And the same TDs would then be rejected by the voters who would see their moves as being wholly cynical and self-serving.

It could happen but I doubt it.

Doubt they'd be rejected actually. Most politics is still quite local. At least in rural areas I reckon they'd be seen in a good light. Something aloing the lines of:
'Fair play to Jim. His family were always fine Gael, but he left them after that Enda Kenny clown took over. He's high up in that new party now. Jim's a grand fella. Sorted out xxxxx for me last year.'

Heard a good deal of comments re fianna fail tds in the last few years. The ones who stayed with the party have been blackened. People tell them, 'I'd vote for you if you were independent but I can't while you're still with that crowd'

Ghost Buster

seligehgit wrote: »

Got nothing re an acknowledgement of my return of application form?

Over a month ago now, when I was willing to pay I attempted via all means to register, (even twitter) and could get no where. Then a week of scandals came to light, Boy was I glad of IW s incompetence.

Frigga_92

How are the protestors going to feel if the water charges are abolished (which I don't see happening) and in it's place everyone (including people with their own water and sewage systems, who have always paid for their own water supply, and people who were happy to pay water charges) ends up with an increase in other taxes in the next budget?

26sdrawkcab

26sdrawkcab wrote: »

How are the protestors going to feel if the water charges are abolished (which I don't see happening) and in it's place everyone (including people with their own water and sewage systems, who have always paid for their own water supply, and people who were happy to pay water charges) ends up with an increase in other taxes in the next budget?

Shur, they'll be happy out. Only WORKERS will have to pay.

Ghost Buster

Possibly a question which could be in its own thread with its own poll, but...
If whatever party was in power actually totally reformed the system and truly ended 'schleeveen' politics, the corruption, the obscene expenses, pensions, brown envelopes et al
would you be willing to pay more tax?
I would.

Ghost Buster

26sdrawkcab wrote: »

How are the protestors going to feel if the water charges are abolished (which I don't see happening) and in it's place everyone (including people with their own water and sewage systems, who have always paid for their own water supply, and people who were happy to pay water charges) ends up with an increase in other taxes in the next budget?

Thats how all our other taxes work. Im not elderly and live in the sticks yet my tax contributes to care for the elderly and street lighting.

pc7

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Possibly a question which could be in its own thread with its own poll, but...
If whatever party was in power actually totally reformed the system and truly ended 'schleeveen' politics, the corruption, the obscene expenses, pensions, brown envelopes et al
would you be willing to pay more tax?
I would.

If the quangos and waste were addressed along with the above we wouldn't need to pay more.

Satriale

Deleted User wrote: »

Shur, they'll be happy out. Only WORKERS will have to pay.

My pleasure, whether i'm paying for the protestors or paying for your "free allowance" doesnt make a helluva lot of difference to me.

You are both welcome!

VinLieger

pc7 wrote: »

If the quangos and waste were addressed along with the above we wouldn't need to pay more.

Keep living in your fantasy world, water cost's a lot more than you think and is something we need to pay more for to keep investing in the system.

Highflyer13

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Possibly a question which could be in its own thread with its own poll, but...
If whatever party was in power actually totally reformed the system and truly ended 'schleeveen' politics, the corruption, the obscene expenses, pensions, brown envelopes et al
would you be willing to pay more tax?
I would.

Yes I would be willing to pay more tax. If the tax was going to fund a good health system, good public transport, good education system and good water/local services. I would also like to see accountability and transparency for everything revenue funded up on public websites. Be it politicians expenses or capital expenditure projects.

We have a great country here which I have no doubt can be fixed. I believe most peoples grudge who moan about Ireland is really at the political establishment. Eradicate all the sleeveen politics will be better for all and I sense a turning point here.

deco nate

VinLieger wrote: »

Keep living in your fantasy world, water cost's a lot more than you think and is something we need to pay more for to keep investing in the system.

He/she is saying it's gonna cost us a lot more because of the insane Wages that are being paid to IW. At least twice the cost of the UK equivalent of the same size of Ireland, are you OK with paying for that?!

Lucy and Harry

All this cash goes to paying back banks.How can 200 people be happy paying for that!!White cloudy things are floating around my water what the hell would I pay double for that ****..

water cost's a lot more than you think and is something we need to pay more for to keep investing in the system.

No one is investing in a system and fixing any pipes are they it is the Troika that is making our government do this.It like the house charge that Enda said was a ''immoral tax'' are just to pay for banking big shots mistakes...We are not even being asked to save water we use as you do not get rewarded for that as the foreign company we have sold our national resource of water too will raise cost as they want to make a profit off our asses..This foreign company does not care about Ireland and just wants to milk us dry.Our taxes already have been paying for water years who else has been paying for it.Wait till you are paying cash for them to fix pipes and leaks that we get Xmas and add that to the bill.We will end up paying 800 euro a year soon.Food costs more here than anywhere in Europe.Clothes are double here than most places in Europe.We have a double bin tax now as we have to pay a 2nd time for bins to be collected.Alcohol costs more here than most places in Europe and ciggarettes too.Go to Spain and buy food cheaper and alcohol and cigs.We are a rip of banana republic with **** weather and **** politicians that do not recognise the will of the people and do not represent their wishes.In a democracy how can most of the people of this place be ignored by these ''leaders'' over the water charge.Most people do not want this charge so why are we still getting it..Threatening to cut water to a trickle so we cant shower and wash dishes in a dish washer and use a washing machine to have clean clothes.Are they trying to bring back Strumpet City poverty.

brooke 2

seligehgit wrote: »

Got nothing re an acknowledgement of my return of application form?

Have not even received my application form yet!
Trying to contact IW is a joke!!

Ghost Buster

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Possibly a question which could be in its own thread with its own poll, but...
If whatever party was in power actually totally reformed the system and truly ended 'schleeveen' politics, the corruption, the obscene expenses, pensions, brown envelopes et al
would you be willing to pay more tax?
I would.

No way, I'd rather things the way they are and lower tax.

All the above are part and parcel of politics in all countries people just need to accept that.

shamrock2004

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

All this cash goes to paying back banks.How can 200 people be happy paying for that!!White cloudy things are floating around my water what the hell would I pay double for that ****..


No one is investing in a system and fixing any pipes are they it is the Troika that is making our government do this.It like the house charge that Enda said was a ''immoral tax'' are just to pay for banking big shots mistakes...We are not even being asked to save water we use as you do not get rewarded for that as the foreign company we have sold our national resource of water too will raise cost as they want to make a profit off our asses..This foreign company does not care about Ireland and just wants to milk us dry.Our taxes already have been paying for water years who else has been paying for it.Wait till you are paying cash for them to fix pipes and leaks that we get Xmas and add that to the bill.We will end up paying 800 euro a year soon.Food costs more here than anywhere in Europe.Clothes are double here than most places in Europe.We have a double bin tax now as we have to pay a 2nd time for bins to be collected.Alcohol costs more here than most places in Europe and ciggarettes too.Go to Spain and buy food cheaper and alcohol and cigs.We are a rip of banana republic with **** weather and **** politicians that do not recognise the will of the people and do not represent their wishes.In a democracy how can most of the people of this place be ignored by these ''leaders'' over the water charge.Most people do not want this charge so why are we still getting it..Threatening to cut water to a trickle so we cant shower and wash dishes in a dish washer and use a washing machine to have clean clothes.Are they trying to bring back Strumpet City poverty.

I agree 100% yet the number of people drinking the kool aid with regards to the government spin on this is shocking really.

Lucy and Harry

I threw my pack in the bin as I will not be handing over pps and other private info to this company when they cant seem to do anything right.
It has been f-up after f-up.


So what happens now do they send out threats now mentioning water trickles and jail and fines etc??

Augmerson

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

I threw my pack in the bin as I will not be handing over pps and other private info to this company when they cant seem to do anything right.
It has been f-up after f-up.


So what happens now do they send out threats now mentioning water trickles and jail and fines etc??

They'll have to hire a third party to turn your water down. Apparently the councils won't do it.

Satriale

I went to Limerick yesterday, great atmosphere despite the rain lashing down.
FG, when you see people going out in weather like that, you are in big fcukin trouble.

Everybody seemed to be respectable, well mannered /dressed. Nobody drinking flagons of cider/ abusing the Gardai.
I asked a few people to come two did (both working) two didnt (both on the dole, "Waste of time" and "Er, no thanks")


My only issue was a couple of Fwords that slipped out in the speeches, there were kids present, but i dont think they did any permanent damage!

FWIW, I measured the area in Bedford Row on Bing and worked out that there were between 3000-3500 people in the crowd.

Cant wait for the next one!!

shamrock2004

Augmerson wrote: »

They'll have to hire a third party to turn your water down. Apparently the councils won't do it.

If youre on a shared water system (such as in an apartment) they can't do it. I'd like to see them try and turn down my water pressure.

brooke 2

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Over a month ago now, when I was willing to pay I attempted via all means to register, (even twitter) and could get no where. Then a week of scandals came to light, Boy was I glad of IW s incompetence.

How many more people like us are out there? Just listening to an ad for IW on the
radio, asking people to ring the 1890 number (cost if which is outrageous!).

Whenever I tried to do so, I was subjected to an automated message instructing
me to go online to register. When I tried to do this, I was asked for my PIN, which
of course I did not have, as I did not get the pack! At the bottom of the page, I
was told to ring the aforementioned 1890 number if I had not already received
the blessed pack!! Talk about going around in circles!!! Gggrrr!!!!

I wonder how much the clever clogs who are responsible for the IT system are
paid? Did someone say millions???

Streetwalker

Augmerson wrote: »

They'll have to hire a third party to turn your water down. Apparently the councils won't do it.

And it's a 30 second job to turn it back up. :pac: