***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Micky Dolenz

Deleted User wrote: »

Aw, Jazus, LCC, don't be talking sense. They don't want to hear how to live within their means. Rather come on internet forums and gripe about supposed charges. As a homeowner/renter of almost 40 years, I can only remember ONCE having to get someone in to fix a leak.

As a side point, once people are metered, underground leaks on mains pipe will become apparent. Many people will be losing water under their homes and until this point didn't know or care.

Little CuChulainn

66ad wrote: »

His post didn't even make sense.

You don't have to hire the person your utility provider recommends. You can shop around.

VinLieger

66ad wrote: »

His post didn't even make sense.

Yeah it did it's called an analogy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy

Banjo String

VinLieger wrote: »

If IW was not so quangoesque the protester's would have nothing beyond "I dont wanna pay for the water I use and want everyone else to foot the bill"

Thats not entirely true, I think its more a case of a good portion of the protesters , protesting about it being so "Quangoesque".

They havent even got the ball rolling completley yet, and already theres a bonus system (including for those that need improvement) private gyms, and 420k Car allowances.

Then we have that sliveen Kenny sabre rattling yesterday that income tax may have to be increased by 4% if water charges are scrapped.

I would like to know how Enda arrived at those precise figures of 4% , did he provide any breakdown of this proposed figure

He has had Irish water planned since 2009, a full two years before getting into govt, so the fact that he seems to want to continue on regardless is quite telling.

Dennis has already chewed the balls of him over breakfast this morning, the cunning plan is unravelling around their ears.

Tony EH

VinLieger wrote: »

I also don't approve of IW either I just think that we need to pay for water on a by use basis which is the fairest way to do it for everyone involved.

FFS.

That's the point.

You won't be.

You'll be paying way over the odds to put money into John Tierney's bank account and pension and private gym and bonuses...

Unbelievable. :rolleyes:

Rubber_Soul

Tony EH wrote: »

The salient point was your first sentence and I agree, people WILL take advantage.

Eventually, the prices will even out.

Frankly, plumbers would be STUPID not to take advantage of the opportunity that IW has presented.

But nothing has changed, the same market forces are still at play here. Nothing was stopping plumbers from upping their prices before but ultimately they had to charge what the market deemed fair. Some plumbers may decide to up their price but the market will quickly force them down.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If I want to get my broadband connection moved to another part of the house my ISP will charge me €100 to drill a new hole and move the wire. I got a local electrician to do it for €30.

deco nate

VinLieger wrote: »

Actually they can't they need permission from the energy regulator to approve any charges or fees

Sorry, I edited my post before you replied, please read

twowheelsgood

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

What investment I see nothing.And you can reread my post I owned your post with a answer.We are already paying for water and have done for years and now that cash is going to our debt and we are double paying for water

I am not sure why you make the widespread and erroneous claim that we are double paying for water when your own post shows that you understand that we are not?

Little CuChulainn

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

What investment I see nothing.k.

If you'd bothered to read the post I was responding to you would see we were dicussing the prospect of future borrowing for infrastructure repair.

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

And you can reread my post I owned your post with a answer.We are already paying for water and have done for years and now that cash is going to our debt and we are double paying for water and this company is getting to make profits off selling us our our national water.k.

Like I said before, water money is the most likely of all our taxes and charges to go to what it is supposed to as we don't have a hypothecated tax system in place. It has been partly offset by changes in the budget and will be fully offset by next years changes.

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

This 40 % crap wasting water is true and our governments have always wasted and mismanaged water and everything else but no plan has been mentioned to fix this by IW.The government is bleeding this country dry to pay back banking mistakes.House charges is a immoral tax to pay back bondholders.Have you not been here for austerity.Do you not know we are being raped of our wealth and our grandchildren will be paying this back.

Do you know we were already paying for the borrowing done by previous generations? Ireland was always in debt.

VinLieger

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

What investment I see nothing.

There ya go

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-water-to-spend-1-7bn-on-infrastructure-projects-1.1792697

shamrock2004

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

This is it. I saw these water charges for day one for what it was - a money raising exercise to bridge the deficit. The country has a deficit as in there's not enough money between income and expenditure. In the not so recent past we saw cutbacks like for example in the HSE to which theatres closed as a result, for one example. Yet, the government were able to find millions of euro to set up this IW company. At a time when we saw social welfare dropped for youngsters. Working schemes set up for the unemployed with nany people doing a full working week for their 100, 140, 188 euro dole, topped up by 50. We saw that the government were able to find 100s of thousands to pay out in the form of pay packs and bonuses.

I would have been able for a flat fee from the council rather than seeing the IW company which is a smack in the face for so many people taking us all for mugs and making an absolute mockery out from us.

Not to mention the millions spent on the poolbeg incinerator without a brick being laid - who was at the helm?... john tierney.

Guy:Incognito

What is wrong with a company having a gym for employees? Is this not the way a lot of companies are going, either having one or paying for staff as a perk? If it wasn't IW would anyone care?


Whats the break down of the car allowance? Again, is this not a cost that most companies have?

66ad

66ad wrote: »

His post didn't even make sense.

He gave an example of how to he spends his money wisely. As the old saying goes "Waste not, Want not"

Cantona's Collars

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What is wrong with a company having a gym for employees? Is this not the way a lot of companies are going, either having one or paying for staff as a perk? If it wasn't IW would anyone care?

Have you seen the age profile of the staff? It's just a white elephant and a result of the waste money mentality of this company.

Lucy and Harry

twowheelsgood wrote: »

I am not sure why you make the widespread and erroneous claim that we are double paying for water when your own post shows that you understand that we are not?

we have always been paying for water through taxes.And now it will be double paying as this company wants cash now.Simple.Do you not understand that,.Do you think water falls from the sky lol :pac:

Tony EH

StarshipPooper wrote: »

But nothing has changed, the same market forces are still at play here. Nothing was stopping plumbers from upping their prices before

Of course it fücking did. IW have laid down a price and plumbers will follow suit.

The householder, before, could ignore a leak if it wasn't affecting their day to day lives. Now, they won't be able to do that and will be forced to either go with IW or a plumber.

And you don't think that plumbers will see that and won't up their prices?

That's a level of naivety that's staggering TBPH.

They may not match IW's gouging, but you can damn sure their prices will increase to take advantage of the rock and a hard place the punter finds themselves in.

As I said before they'd be stupid not to.

deco nate

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I only meant to quote the one line about people affording it tbh.

What has Iw's saying X amount got to do with anything? Their call out charge can be €1000 if they want , if you just use a different plumber, what does it matter?

Whats the plumber laughing about

Wait till IW is sold off and
They have can set who can
Be affiliated, set prices.

Ghost Buster

VinLieger wrote: »

I don't love FG I just think they are the best of a bad bunch who have slowly pulled us out of what FF got us into.

I also don't approve of IW either I just think that we need to pay for water on a by use basis which is the fairest way to do it for everyone involved.

I totally agree, absolutely, 100% but whilst its a boys club of Fg supporters, donors and mates on huge salaries and travel expenses they can **** off for them selves.

shamrock2004

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Like I said before, water money is the most likely of all our taxes and charges to go to what it is supposed to as we don't have a hypothecated tax system in place.

Yeh right. Please show us the proof? Oh wait... you can't because there is no proof. Have you not being reading the papers? Hogan said it's a directive of the troika. It is a tax to pay back debt. Not a tax to invest in water infrastructure. I have 0% confidence in the government or any other quasi-governmental organisation to take more of my hard earned pay to invest in something which will benefit me. Enough is enough.

Little CuChulainn

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

we have always been paying for water through taxes.And now it will be double paying as this company wants cash now.Simple.Do you not understand that,.Do you think water falls from the sky lol :pac:

And our taxes are being reduced to compensate. Do you not understand that? If water is so easy to come by then why do you need it piped to your home?

Tony EH

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What is wrong with a company having a gym for employees? Is this not the way a lot of companies are going, either having one or paying for staff as a perk? If it wasn't IW would anyone care?

Whats the break down of the car allowance? Again, is this not a cost that most companies have?

And you'll be happy with YOUR money paying for that.

You FG/IW guys are funny.

Irish Steve

This thread is becoming depressing.

There are so many misinformations, and blatant lies, on both sides of the argument about IW, and so many people who are being either deliberately obtuse, or just plain ignorant, the original purpose of the thread is being lost, and diluted.

I'm coming to the reluctant conclusion that we might have been better to have let the IMF/Troika come in and dismantle the entire state structure, and put it back together again in a manner that would have been fit for purpose, as it's becoming increasingly clear that

(A) The State services as currently structured, operated and financed are not fit for purpose, IW being just the latest and most blatant creation of this monstrosity.

(B) The politicians and their senior civil servants have a clear vested interest in keeping things the way they are.

(C) Many of the people of Ireland are not prepared to really engage with the political system

(D) The Party system has been structured to ensure that "the system" can't be easily or quickly changed to become fit for purpose.

(E) The Irish people are still living with and accepting the concept that politicians are the "masters" rather than the servants of the state, a throw back to colonial government of the past.

I had hoped that there might be some chance of things being changed with the removal of FF at the last election, and the promises made by FG/Labour, but it's become increasingly evident that they have no intention of making the sort of changes that were promised, and those changes were and are essential to the future success of Ireland.

It's also clear that none of the other parties (and I include SF in this) have any intention of bringing about the real changes that are needed to make politics truly accountable and answerable to the people that elected them, they are all very comfortable with the concept that politics is somehow "special" and above the reach and influence of the people that they are (in theory) there to serve.

They are all too comfortable with their platinum plated inflation proofed pensions, obscene allowances for just doing the job, regardless of how well they do it, and all manner of unvouched expenses, and all the other things that they now deem as "entitlements", and on top of that, we've seen many of them take bribes, or other corrupt payments to either influence things, or change them, or just simply to make them happen, and that's only the thin end of a very substantial wedge that's been partly revealed by the interminable and massively expensive tribunals that have been sitting for so long, most people have lost interest, which was the plan all along.

What's also clear is that despite the protests of people in recent weeks about IW, those same politicians are not prepared to really engage with the people, or to change their attitude or direction, and there is a large group of people that see nothing wrong with that attitude, and they are unwilling or unable to stand up and demand that politics become accountable to the people that are paying the bills for their mistakes.

Even more depressing is the increasing realisation that "the system" has been so well set up by those politicians and Civil Servants, changing it will take something close to a revolution, as the people running the system are so well entrenched and embedded in their positions, and a revolution of that magnitude is unlikely to happen easily, it would need a leader with vision and clarity of purpose, and I don't see anyone even close to being capable of filling that role at present.

depressing, VERY depressing.

Beaner1

shamrock2004 wrote: »

Yeh right. Please show us the proof? Oh wait... you can't because there is no proof. Have you not being reading the papers? Hogan said it's a directive of the troika. It is a tax to pay back debt. Not a tax to invest in water infrastructure. I have 0% confidence in the government or any other quasi-governmental organisation to take more of my hard earned pay to invest in something which will benefit me. Enough is enough.

Who cares if any of you don't like it. It's to a pay back a debt that you ran up. Tough ****.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

Of course it fücking did. IW have laid down a price and plumbers will follow suit.

The householder, before, could ignore a leak if it wasn't affecting their day to day lives. Now, they won't be able to do that and will be forced to either go with IW or a plumber.

And you don't think that plumbers will see that and won't up their prices?

That's a level of naivety that's staggering TBPH.

They may not match IW's gouging, but you can damn sure their prices will increase to take advantage of the rock and a hard place the punter finds themselves in.

As I said before they'd be stupid not to.

How many times in the past year / 5 years / 10 years did you have to call a plumber out to fix a leak?

Ghost Buster

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What is wrong with a company having a gym for employees? Is this not the way a lot of companies are going, either having one or paying for staff as a perk? If it wasn't IW would anyone care?


Whats the break down of the car allowance? Again, is this not a cost that most companies have?

seeing as the country is massively in debt and these companys are depending on ordinary Joes to fund them perhaps they should stop this crap?
Just saying.

Little CuChulainn

shamrock2004 wrote: »

Yeh right. Please show us the proof? Oh wait... you can't because there is no proof. Have you not being reading the papers? Hogan said it's a directive of the troika. It is a tax to pay back debt. Not a tax to invest in water infrastructure. I have 0% confidence in the government or any other quasi-governmental organisation to take more of my hard earned pay to invest in something which will benefit me. Enough is enough.

It's a private company so revenue generated remains within the company books. It can't just be taken by the government. All other taxes and charges you pay go into a central government fund and can be spent anywhere.

twowheelsgood

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

we have always been paying for water through taxes.And now it will be double paying as this company wants cash now.Simple.Do you not understand that.

Yep! I do understand. And the money we had been paying that would have paid for water provision will no longer be used for this purpose and will be used for something else. So no, no double payment.

And you understand this too because you said as much! :pac: (You suggested it will go to paying off our debts - I would say it will to to reduce our deficit, but it won't be going to paying for water)

Guy:Incognito

Tony EH wrote: »

The householder, before, could ignore a leak if it wasn't affecting their day to day lives..

Your making a good case for people being metered and paying there....

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

How many times in the past year / 5 years / 10 years did you have to call a plumber out to fix a leak?

That's not even the bloody point.

:rolleyes:

lanos

Tony EH wrote: »

That's what SHOULD have been done, with the accrual ringfenced, like USC and put directly to use fixing the leaks in the system. When that was complete, the tax could be repealed.

Instead, they set up a quango for their buddies, with bill money (which will only rise and rise) going into their pockets, pensions, private gyms, ad nauseum.

How ANYONE could think that that's a better idea is beyond me.

What a great post. Sums it up perfectly

Tony EH wrote: »

Don't worry, not all Fine Gaelers are the same type that's on here.

I was marching with a whole family of lifetime FG voters on Saturday.

Then you fcukin ruin it all by admitting to having blind loyalty to the blueshirts for a lifetime :mad: