***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Rucking_Fetard

Is their not an allowance per adult??

When is that gombeen regulator releasing the charges??

rameire

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

Is their not an allowance per adult??

When is that gombeen regulator releasing the charges??

one adult allowance once it is your only private residence,
and the charges are to be announced this week.

p_o_s_t_y

I won't be paying the water charge or giving them any details,why pay for something that you already pay for,it's about time the people rise up and tell the government where to stick this 'charge'

Funnyonion79

My husband got the Irish water pack in the post the other day. He actually received two - one of them is for another property we own however they both came to the property we actually live in. Does anyone know if my tenants would've also received this pack or is it my responsibility to send it onto them and request that they fill out the forms..?

I'm going to contact them anyway to find out but was wondering if anyone on here knew...

dxhound2005

Fr. Ned wrote: »

That's not the point, there is no contract because there is nobody to have a contract with.

Answer my question though, would you enter a contract with a company for a service when you haven't been told how much that service will cost you?

A yes or no will do.


Meantime, I'd suggest that you brush up on contract law.

What do you mean there was nobody to have a contract with. What about your local authority who had charge of water supply before?

This place is full of legal experts. I have no training in the law myself. Using your knowledge of contract law, can you cast your eyes over this little lot. Am I right in thinking that interest of 4.5% will be added each month on amounts outstanding to Irish Water?

http://www.water.ie/docs/General-Conditions-for-a-Water-and-Wastewater-connection.pdf

1.12 Payment: Payment of the Connection Charge and any
other amounts agreed between Irish Water and the
Customer shall be made on the due date for payment. Any
overdue accounts shall be subject to an interest payment at
the rate of 4.5% per month or part thereof until payment.


Also have a look at this one. Am I right in thinking that the regulator has authorised Irish Water to restrict the supply to a customer, once all reasonable steps have been taken to force them to pay and they have not complied?

http://www.cer.ie/docs/000956/CER14364%20Irish%20Water%20Customer%20Handbook.pdf

7.10 Reduction in supply if persistent refusal to pay arrears
7.10.1 Irish Water must operate their business to ensure that an account holder’s water supply is reduced only as a measure of last resort when all other methods of arrears repayment have been exhausted.
7.10.2 The reduction of supply shall entail a reduction of supply only to a level that allows an account holder to meet basic domestic needs, but there shall be no time restrictions to this water supply reduction (that is, 24 hours supply will continue). Basic domestic needs shall be defined by Irish Water, and approved by the CER.
7.10.3 Irish Water may reduce water supply to a domestic property where an account holder has;
 accumulated arrears, and
 has not reached an agreement on a payment plan with Irish Water, despite attempts by Irish Water on more than one occasion, or
 failed on more than one occasion to make the required payments on an agreed payment plan.
7.10.4 As a minimum, Irish Water is required to make the following contact in advance of reducing supply to a household customer:
a) At least two attempts to contact the account holder by direct notice in writing (this includes at least one contact in addition to the notice of supply reduction and must be in addition to any communication made through the account holder’s normal bill)
b) At least two additional attempts to contact the account holder, this could be by telephone, email, text message or another format used by Irish Water
c) Each attempt to contact the account holder should take place no less than three working days apart

I realise that all of this is of only academic interest to you as a non customer of Irish Water and with no contract. But just in case they do decide to pursue you what is your informed legal advice on how to counter their approach?

Fr_Dougal

Received the 'application pack'. Eh no thanks, I'm not going to 'apply' to pay another bill!

generalmental

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Many aspects of Irish water dont add up but the one bugging me just now is the estimated bills for homes they havent yet metered. If you are paying for a consumable product and by quantity consumed how is it fair that they estimate your consumption just cos they havent got their act together.?
Can Tesco just start letting you out of the store without paying and then send you bill based on a guess?
My home isnt metered and being a bit of an auld hippy i have been conserving water for years. Im well below the calculated average but will end up paying for what i dont use based on their guess.
Arse i say!!!!!:mad:

They won't just guess. This is one of the reasons they want your PPS numbers. If you live in property with 2adults and 2kids they will check the other properties in your area with same amount of people in them and they will charge you the average rate of what they use.. You should hope they don't like showeriin those properties.

Infoanon

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What do you mean there was nobody to have a contract with. What about your local authority who had charge of water supply before?

This place is full of legal experts. I have no training in the law myself. Using your knowledge of contract law, can you cast your eyes over this little lot. Am I right in thinking that interest of 4.5% will be added each month on amounts outstanding to Irish Water?

http://www.water.ie/docs/General-Conditions-for-a-Water-and-Wastewater-connection.pdf

1.12 Payment: Payment of the Connection Charge and any
other amounts agreed between Irish Water and the
Customer shall be made on the due date for payment. Any
overdue accounts shall be subject to an interest payment at
the rate of 4.5% per month or part thereof until payment.
[/Ich?

First time I have heard mention of the interest penalty - it is a very penal rate of 4.5% per month, thus if you owe €100,that shall become 104.50 by the end of the first month, 109.20 the following month etc, so circa 170 by the end of the year !

So a true annual rate of 70% - that will make people think twice about not paying.

generalmental

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

This is true,

What do people do though when a court judgement is taken against them for non payment? How many will look forward to a future where getting a mortgage, car loan or even a credit card will be difficult because of the judgements against?

The majority of the people who can't afford to pay for it already have a bad credit rating due to the recession. .so it won't really affect them if they can't get a credit card.

Smidge

Infoanon wrote: »

First time I have heard mention of the interest penalty - it is a very penal rate of 4.5% per month, thus if you owe €100,that shall become 104.50 by the end of the first month, 109.20 the following month etc, so circa 170 by the end of the year !

So a true annual rate of 70% - that will make people think twice about not paying.

If this bit of info about interest doesn't make people question IW I don't know what will.
No other utility companies charge interest like this on arrears etc.

Son Of A Vidic

Barely There wrote: »

The 'I'm not paying' brigade will fold faster than Superman on Laundry Day.

Usual keyboard warrior fighting talk that's been seen in the HHC and property Tax threads, but the reality is that the vast majority of them lack any kind of moral fibre (as evidenced by their willingness to try to parasite off the rest of society) and they soon fall into line.

Apt username.

Heroditas

Smidge wrote: »

No other utility companies charge interest like this on arrears etc.

Other utilities have the ability to completely disconnect your supply though.
Irish Water only have the ability to restrict it.

Timberrrrrrrr

mikeym wrote: »

Big Phil also said that Irish Water can cut down the pressure to a trickle if the bill payer doesnt pay up.

But what he said was unconstitutional because the UN have declared water a human right meaning that you wont get cut off.

Thats Big Phil for you and now he has a cushy job in Brussels.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10797988

And you will have water, enough water to live on but not enough to waste. Nothing illegal or unconstitutional about that.

fred funk }{

Correct me if I'm wrong, the only way of restricting the water pressure/flow into your house is from the shore outside?

If they turn it down isn't it extremely easy to turn it back on?

Banjo String

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, the only way of restricting the water pressure/flow into your house is from the shore outside?

If they turn it down isn't it extremely easy to turn it back on?

That's what I imagine also.

Difficult only of you've no arms.

Fr. Ned

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What do you mean there was nobody to have a contract with. What about your local authority who had charge of water supply before?

This place is full of legal experts. I have no training in the law myself. Using your knowledge of contract law, can you cast your eyes over this little lot. Am I right in thinking that interest of 4.5% will be added each month on amounts outstanding to Irish Water?

http://www.water.ie/docs/General-Conditions-for-a-Water-and-Wastewater-connection.pdf

1.12 Payment: Payment of the Connection Charge and any
other amounts agreed between Irish Water and the
Customer shall be made on the due date for payment. Any
overdue accounts shall be subject to an interest payment at
the rate of 4.5% per month or part thereof until payment.


Also have a look at this one. Am I right in thinking that the regulator has authorised Irish Water to restrict the supply to a customer, once all reasonable steps have been taken to force them to pay and they have not complied?

http://www.cer.ie/docs/000956/CER14364%20Irish%20Water%20Customer%20Handbook.pdf

7.10 Reduction in supply if persistent refusal to pay arrears
7.10.1 Irish Water must operate their business to ensure that an account holder’s water supply is reduced only as a measure of last resort when all other methods of arrears repayment have been exhausted.
7.10.2 The reduction of supply shall entail a reduction of supply only to a level that allows an account holder to meet basic domestic needs, but there shall be no time restrictions to this water supply reduction (that is, 24 hours supply will continue). Basic domestic needs shall be defined by Irish Water, and approved by the CER.
7.10.3 Irish Water may reduce water supply to a domestic property where an account holder has;
 accumulated arrears, and
 has not reached an agreement on a payment plan with Irish Water, despite attempts by Irish Water on more than one occasion, or
 failed on more than one occasion to make the required payments on an agreed payment plan.
7.10.4 As a minimum, Irish Water is required to make the following contact in advance of reducing supply to a household customer:
a) At least two attempts to contact the account holder by direct notice in writing (this includes at least one contact in addition to the notice of supply reduction and must be in addition to any communication made through the account holder’s normal bill)
b) At least two additional attempts to contact the account holder, this could be by telephone, email, text message or another format used by Irish Water
c) Each attempt to contact the account holder should take place no less than three working days apart

I realise that all of this is of only academic interest to you as a non customer of Irish Water and with no contract. But just in case they do decide to pursue you what is your informed legal advice on how to counter their approach?

Look, you go your way and I'll go mine.
People who are employed by state/semi-state companies or in the PS will obviously encourage others to pay and scold those who refuse to.

It's in their interest to keep the trough topped up.

rameire

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, the only way of restricting the water pressure/flow into your house is from the shore outside?

If they turn it down isn't it extremely easy to turn it back on?

I have been told that they can restrict the water supply by placing a restricting Nut on the pipe work.
I would thing this would mean some manual work on the pipes or meter pipework.
it maybe easy to do, I doubt they will dig up the path to imput the restrictor.

The restrictor reduces the hole to which water flows through thus reducing the flow to a trickle.

Ogham

generalmental wrote: »

They won't just guess. This is one of the reasons they want your PPS numbers. If you live in property with 2adults and 2kids they will check the other properties in your area with same amount of people in them and they will charge you the average rate of what they use.. You should hope they don't like showeriin those properties.

That's not how the unmetered charges are going to work. It's just 5 different flat rates based on how many adults you tell them are living in your home.
See proposed figures here http://www.moneyguideireland.com/unmetered-water-charges-how-will-it-work.html
(Starts at €176 and rises by €102 per adult)

Fr. Ned

rameire wrote: »

I have been told that they can restrict the water supply by placing a restricting Nut on the pipe work.
I would thing this would mean some manual work on the pipes or meter pipework.
it maybe easy to do, I doubt they will dig up the path to imput the restrictor.

The restrictor reduces the hole to which water flows through thus reducing the flow to a trickle.

That's not going to happen. they'll turn down the stopcock and once they've left you can turn it back up.

BTW, I'm in the trade and I know of fitters for siteserv who are 'fixing' the meters so they'll only show the bare minimum of usage on the dial.

€50 well spent by all accounts, cash of course........

shedweller

Fr. Ned wrote: »

That's not going to happen. they'll turn down the stopcock and once they've left you can turn it back up.

BTW, I'm in the trade and I know of fitters for siteserv who are 'fixing' the meters so they'll only show the bare minimum of usage on the dial.

€50 well spent by all accounts, cash of course........

Excellent!!

geeksauce

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, the only way of restricting the water pressure/flow into your house is from the shore outside?

If they turn it down isn't it extremely easy to turn it back on?

I am sure it would be extremely easy to turn back on, however when they have a note on their system saying your supply is restricted and then the readings are showing no apparent drop in consumption they wouldn't have to be rocket scientists to figure that the restrictor has been tampered with.

They will know full well how much water could flow through a restrictor, any more than that going through and they will be well aware of it. Then you are opening yourself up to possible legal proceedings for tampering with the meter etc.

Banjo String

geeksauce wrote: »

I am sure it would be extremely easy to turn back on, however when they have a note on their system saying your supply is restricted and then the readings are showing no apparent drop in consumption they wouldn't have to be rocket scientists to figure that the restrictor has been tampered with.

They will know full well how much water could flow through a restrictor, any more than that going through and they will be well aware of it. Then you are opening yourself up to possible legal proceedings for tampering with the meter etc.

In an unmetered house?

As Kevin Bridges would say "How"

Timberrrrrrrr

Banjo String wrote: »

In an unmetered house?

As Kevin Bridges would say "How"

If a house is unmetered then they will charge a flat rate, If you refuse to pay this flat rate then you will be taken to court and a judgement will be made against you to pay. If you still refuse to pay then the sheriff will come a knocking and take possessions to the value of the money owed.

Larbre34

My house will be going from metered to unmetered after an industrious few hours next Saturday afternoon.

aidan24326

Banjo String wrote: »

My 'information pack' arrived on Friday.

It had my full name (including middle name) and address. I'm curious as to where Irish Water got my details from tbh. I know some folk have said theirs was addressed to 'the occupier/home owner' etc.

Seems there's been some data sharing going on already.

I haven't read the 'application pack' yet, but Gene Kerrigan writing in The Sunday Indo mentioned a section where the contract you enter into allows them to share your personal information (and pps is linked to just about everything) with unspecified third parties. Meaning just about anyone, as they please. He suggested that they're looking to use your personal details as a 'commercial asset'.

Anyone come across that bit in the application?

iguana

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I got the application form on friday, I'll fill it and return but I'm not too happy that I will be billed from January when a meter hasn't even been installed yet.

You won't be billed from January. You (and all of us) will be billed from October 1st, ie next week. The bills will just be sent out in January. It's a sneaky way to make those on meters miss out on the chance to be vigilant about conserving water for the first 3 months.

Ogham

iguana wrote: »

You won't be billed from January. You (and all of us) will be billed from October 1st, ie next week. The bills will just be sent out in January. It's a sneaky way to make those on meters miss out on the chance to be vigilant about conserving water for the first 3 months.

All metered bills are capped for 6 months at the assesed charge.
Also - I don't think those first bills will be out until mid to late Jan or maybe even Feb

iguana

They could still be capped above what some people will use once they know they are being charged. And they start charging from October 1st, which nobody I've spoken to seems to be aware of. Everyone seems to be focused on the fact that bills will be coming in January and not realising that means that the metering/billing starts from next week.

Daith

Ogham wrote: »

All metered bills are capped for 6 months at the assesed charge.

Huh? So there's no point conserving water if you are on a meter for the first six months?

Mrs Garth Brooks

Infoanon wrote: »

First time I have heard mention of the interest penalty - it is a very penal rate of 4.5% per month, thus if you owe €100,that shall become 104.50 by the end of the first month, 109.20 the following month etc, so circa 170 by the end of the year !

So a true annual rate of 70% - that will make people think twice about not paying.

So the interest rate is the only charge they're giving people for now. Not the cost per unit of water.

Sign away guys, it'll be €1.50 per litre because that's what the shops charge for it.