***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

That's not even the bloody point.

:rolleyes:

No? Then why are you getting so hot and bothered about something that may never happen?

deco nate

The biggest thing that really gets my goat is all this talk about ff/FG... They are two sides of the same coin!
Why vote any of them in next
Time? Better voting in all the independents, you really think they can do more harm at this stage?!

Little CuChulainn

deco nate wrote: »

The biggest thing that really gets my goat is all this talk about ff/FG... They are two sides of the same coin!
Why vote any of them in next
Time? Better voting in all the independents, you really think they can do more harm at this stage?!

What change can an independent make? They have no power in the Dáil other than swing votes. A government made up of Independents would collapse because it has no combined direction.

Tony EH

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Your making a good case for people being metered and paying there....

I wouldn't have had any problem with JUST a metering system being set up and people paying JUST for what they use in an effort to conserve water.

The problem is, that the IW "solution" is NOTHING to do with that.

It's a for profit money making excercise based on lies and you and your 5 mates in here are actively supporting that, whether by design or by simple naivety.

Banjo String

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's a private company so revenue generated remains within the company books. It can't just be taken by the government. All other taxes and charges you pay go into a central government fund and can be spent anywhere.

Oh so it is a private company?

HAve to say you lot are confused on this issue, you seem to change your mind as often as the wind direction on this one.

Tony EH

lanos wrote: »

What a great post. Sums it up perfectly

Then you fcukin ruin it all by admitting to having blind loyalty to the blueshirts for a lifetime :mad:

Me?

No, I'm not an FG voter. I don't have allegiance to any party in this country. But I was marching with a family (not mine) who were FG voters.

Guy:Incognito

deco nate wrote: »

Wait till IW is sold off and
They have can set who can
Be affiliated, set prices.

You know you own the pipe once its on your property? You own it, your responsible for it.


Can you give an example of a similar case?

Gas and electricity require qualified and certified people to install and repair but I don't see how anyone could argue with things like that, your dealing with the potential to kill people. You still not required to us Board Gais to fit a new boiler though.

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

No? Then why are you getting so hot and bothered about something that may never happen?

Just because it may not happen to me, doesn't mean it won't happen to somebody else.

But, I guess I should ONLY worry about myself, yes.

:rolleyes:

Banjo String

lanos wrote: »

Then you fcukin ruin it all by admitting to having blind loyalty to the blueshirts for a lifetime :mad:

No, he said he was marching with a family, not his family.

Lucy and Harry

I think the whole house charge and water charge have been badly handled by the leaders of this country.Hard to tell exactly what we will be paying for and how much.Enda is in the paper today saying ''no backtracking on the tax'' and he has promised to provide ''certainty'' on payments.I would like certainty myself.He also said Irish Water would never become a private company.??Isnt it already private??

And the money we had been paying that would have paid for water provision will no longer be used for this purpose and will be used for something else. So no, no double payment.

Lol it is going to leave my pay cheque 2 times.I wont be able to upgrade my phone this year now.


I threw my water pack in the bin over the pps number thing I pay all my bills and even begrudgingly paid the house charge but this whole thing has been mishandled and 1 million homes cant be wrong.Now I suppose the debt collector or drip feeding water will be on the way.Exciting times.:eek:

Lucy and Harry

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Isnt it already private??

No

Guy:Incognito

Tony EH wrote: »

I wouldn't have had any problem with JUST a metering system being set up and people paying JUST for what they use in an effort to conserve water.

The problem is, that the IW "solution" is NOTHING to do with that.

It's a for profit money making excercise based on lies and you and your 5 mates in here are actively supporting that, whether by design or by simple naivety.

http://www.right2water.ie/about

I don't anything in their about section where theyd be happy to pay for water if it wasn't being given to them by IW.

Tony EH

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

http://www.right2water.ie/about

I don't anything in their about section where theyd be happy to pay for water if it wasn't being given to them by IW.

So what.

Irish Water has NOTHING to do with fair billing for fair usage.

It's a "for profit" enterprise designed to gouge as much money from the punter as possible.

deco nate

Banjo String wrote: »

Oh so it is a private company?

HAve to say you lot are confused on this issue, you seem to change your mind as often as the wind direction on this one.

It's not yet a private company, but it is being set up to be one. Funded by Irish people even before they were appointed the Irish people funded them by, I think it was 350 million, even before they got the contract?

Guy:Incognito

Tony EH wrote: »

And you'll be happy with YOUR money paying for that.

You FG/IW guys are funny.

Ive never voted FG in my life. I currently work in the motor industry and previously I was a plumber (private company). But feel free to make more assumptions.

As far as the subject of this thread goes it's irrelevant to me who makes up the government , I agreed that water should be paid for (through metering as much as possible)

Tony EH

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ive never voted FG in my life.

AS far as the subject of this thread goes it's irrelevant to me who makes up the government , I agreed that water should be paid for (through metering as much as possible)

You're still pro IW.

Guy:Incognito

Banjo String wrote: »

Oh so it is a private company?

HAve to say you lot are confused on this issue, you seem to change your mind as often as the wind direction on this one.

Its private in the same way as Irish Rail, among others, is. You know that though.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/who-owns-irish-water.html

There are many arguments for and against Water Charges - but we try and remain neutral and report the facts where possible.

One of the many arguments used against Irish Water is that it is a “Private Company ” and that it should not be allowed to get information such as PPS numbers or household details .
The fact that Irish Water announces on the bottom of all their web pages that they are a “Private Company Limited by Shares” doesn’t really help ! It is confusing and it is understandable why the public are mistaken.
Most people when they see “Private Company” - think of privatisation , profit making, capitalists , shareholders and fat cats.

Irish Water is not owned by private individuals or corporations.
The truth is, that (for the time being) – Irish Water is a fully state owned company . It is a subsidiary of Ervia (which was formerly known as Bord Gais Eireann) . (If you missed it – more about Ervia here). Ervia itself is a state owned statutory body.

When a company is registered it can be set up as a Private Limited Company or a Public Limited Company. A public company’s shares can be bought by the public – a private company’s cannot. The only shares in Irish Water are 50% owned by Bord Gais (Ervia) and 50% owned by the state. Bord Gais (Ervia) itself is 97% state owned. (About 3% is owned by employees) .

Irish Water is set up in a very similar way to An Post , Bus Eireann, Bord na Mona , Coiltte, ESB, Ervia and Irish Rail (to name but a few).
The Irish Water setup is the exact opposite of what most people think of when they hear “private company” … it is a nationalised, state owned water utility that has been registered as a private company.
See registration details here for other well known state owned companies that are set up as private companies limited by shares:
ESB Networks
Bus Eireann
An Post
Irish Rail

(Maybe someone in Irish Water might want to think about changing the company description on the bottom of all their web pages to avoid any confusion?)

Irish Water is sometimes described as a “semi state” company – which seems to give some people the fairly reasonable idea that it must be only half owned by the state and half owned by someone else. The term semi-state is a misleading one which is often used to describe companies or bodies that are actually fully owned by the state.
Yes – Irish Water do use a lot of private companies to do some of the work – but so did the Councils and many government departments.
Yes – they do use a company connected to Denis O’Brien to install some of the water meters – but (for now) he doesn’t own any part Irish Water.

deco nate

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You know you own the pipe once its on your property? You own it, your responsible for it.


Can you give an example of a similar case?

Gas and electricity require qualified and certified people to install and repair but I don't see how anyone could argue with things like that, your dealing with the potential to kill people. You still not required to us Board Gais to fit a new boiler though.

That's gas! Not water, but you are a gas man/woman!

Guy:Incognito

deco nate wrote: »

That's gas! Not water, but you are a gas man/woman!

What are you on about?

Your not limited to a certain amount of words so feel free to explain yourself.

Little CuChulainn

Irish Water is registered as a plc which is a private company limited by shares. However, the shares are owned completely by the state. There are a number of reasons to set a company up like this that have nothing to do with future selling of the company. Limited liability and freedom from public sector agreements are the main ones.

Guy:Incognito

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

I

I threw my water pack in the bin over the pps number thing I pay all my bills and even begrudgingly paid the house charge but this whole thing has been mishandled and 1 million homes cant be wrong.Now I suppose the debt collector or drip feeding water will be on the way.Exciting times.:eek:

Why didn't you just return it without a ppsn so and pay for every litre you use?

lanos

Tony EH wrote: »

Me?

No, I'm not an FG voter. I don't have allegiance to any party in this country. But I was marching with a family (not mine) who were FG voters.

Banjo String wrote: »

No, he said he was marching with a family, not his family.

Ok fair enough

I remember the day a GF of mine from Tipperary (dairy farmers daughter) told me she was voting FF. I asked her why, and she told me she was instructed by her father to always vote FF. I then asked who was getting her 3rd and subsequent preferences. She said that she was further instructed not to give any other votes to non-FF candidates. That day I realised she was an idiot. But I wasn't with her for her brains.;)

Tony EH

Most political observers see that the Irish Water quango has been set up to grease the wheels for future full privatisation.

It's simply disingenuous to ignore that factor.

Tony EH

lanos wrote: »

and she told me she was instructed by her father to always vote FF.

Which has been a huge, huge problem with the political spectrum in this country.

Rightwing

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And do you know are they operating in the same circumstances?

Does it cost the very same to run a company that's been going years as one that is just being set up? Are those companies faced with all the costs associated with a Victorian water system? Are they losing 40% of the water they clean and send out right from the get go which they now are tasked with sorting out?

I don't know what issues are facing the utility companies in the Uk. But that's why I don't make blanket comparisons with them....

Anyway , I thought the fact that most other countries charge for water is irrelevant to us? Funny how its ok to use other countries as part of arguments when it suits.

That's not my analysis. The comparison was drawn up by independent London-based consultancy Nera, which was particularly critical of staff spending issues.

The report says the decision to continue employing 4,300 council workers once Irish Water is set up may not be necessary and will effectively lead to some positions continuing despite being obsolete.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Here we pay massive salaries and still get them, could Tierney have done a worse job? :rolleyes:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/200k-salary-for-head-of-water-agency-gets-go-ahead-221119.html
The Government has approved a €200,000 salary for the head of the new agency to collect water charges from homeowners.
The appointment of John Tierney as managing director of Irish Water was signed off on by Cabinet yesterday.

dxhound2005

Tony EH wrote: »

Most political observers see that the Irish Water quango has been set up to grease the wheels for future full privatisation.

It's simply disingenuous to ignore that factor.

What is a political observer. A politician? A journalist? Something else? Name a couple of them and I will see if I think they are unbiased.

Tony EH

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What is a political observer. A politician? A journalist? Something else? Name a couple of them and I will see if I think they are unbiased.

If you think that anyone on this thread cares what you or your FG/IW commrades think, you're deluding yourself.

Guy:Incognito

Tony EH wrote: »

Which has been a huge, huge problem with the political spectrum in this country.

So the political spectrum in the country has a huge problem, but its only with FF voters, yeah? All the others keep out of the political affairs of their kids? Seems convenient..

Presumably all the kids on the marches have done their homework and decided off their own bat that they are opposed to water charges and went off to protest?

dxhound2005

Tony EH wrote: »

If you think that anyone on this thread cares what you or your FG/IW commrades think, you're deluding yourself.

Just two names will do from your list of most political observers.

Lucy and Harry

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why didn't you just return it without a ppsn so and pay for every litre you use?

I was sure I had to provide pps or it would not be assessed and I would have to do it again. There was also something in the papers about the info being sent to them not being securely kept.That was before they said they would give us 100 off too.
Raging now as it looks like this will not be reversed as the leaders do not listen to people in this country.Also who knows how much they will charge eventually and if I can afford it.So many new bills now since this austerity thing happened.:(