***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Tony EH

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So the political spectrum in the country has a huge problem, but its only with FF voters, yeah?

That's not what I meant.

The problem lies with people voting for parties that their families have always voted for, without actually trying to find out what the actual policies are.

Rubber_Soul

Tony EH wrote: »

Of course it fücking did. IW have laid down a price and plumbers will follow suit.

The householder, before, could ignore a leak if it wasn't affecting their day to day lives. Now, they won't be able to do that and will be forced to either go with IW or a plumber.

And you don't think that plumbers will see that and won't up their prices?

That's a level of naivety that's staggering TBPH.

They may not match IW's gouging, but you can damn sure their prices will increase to take advantage of the rock and a hard place the punter finds themselves in.

As I said before they'd be stupid not to.

Ok you have a fair point there, I'll admit that metering initially may change what the market deems a fair price and as a result plumbers may change their pricing to take advantage. I still don't think it'll effect the pricing to the extent you seem to think it will though as market forces still apply and it''ll quickly revert back to more familiar pricing levels once the initial rush to fix leaks is over. The IW price is deliberately high in order to avoid becoming involved in the domestic plumbing market, it's not designed to be competitive. Any plumbers that attempt to match it will quickly find that out.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

If you think that anyone on this thread cares what you or your FG/IW commrades think, you're deluding yourself.

YOU obviously do.

deco nate

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Its private in the same way as Irish Rail, among others, is. You know that though.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/who-owns-irish-water.html

There are many arguments for and against Water Charges - but we try and remain neutral and report the facts where possible.

One of the many arguments used against Irish Water is that it is a “Private Company ” and that it should not be allowed to get information such as PPS numbers or household details .
The fact that Irish Water announces on the bottom of all their web pages that they are a “Private Company Limited by Shares” doesn’t really help ! It is confusing and it is understandable why the public are mistaken.
Most people when they see “Private Company” - think of privatisation , profit making, capitalists , shareholders and fat cats.

Irish Water is not owned by private individuals or corporations.
The truth is, that (for the time being) – Irish Water is a fully state owned company . It is a subsidiary of Ervia (which was formerly known as Bord Gais Eireann) . (If you missed it – more about Ervia here). Ervia itself is a state owned statutory body.

When a company is registered it can be set up as a Private Limited Company or a Public Limited Company. A public company’s shares can be bought by the public – a private company’s cannot. The only shares in Irish Water are 50% owned by Bord Gais (Ervia) and 50% owned by the state. Bord Gais (Ervia) itself is 97% state owned. (About 3% is owned by employees) .

Irish Water is set up in a very similar way to An Post , Bus Eireann, Bord na Mona , Coiltte, ESB, Ervia and Irish Rail (to name but a few).
The Irish Water setup is the exact opposite of what most people think of when they hear “private company” … it is a nationalised, state owned water utility that has been registered as a private company.
See registration details here for other well known state owned companies that are set up as private companies limited by shares:
ESB Networks
Bus Eireann
An Post
Irish Rail

(Maybe someone in Irish Water might want to think about changing the company description on the bottom of all their web pages to avoid any confusion?)

Irish Water is sometimes described as a “semi state” company – which seems to give some people the fairly reasonable idea that it must be only half owned by the state and half owned by someone else. The term semi-state is a misleading one which is often used to describe companies or bodies that are actually fully owned by the state.
Yes – Irish Water do use a lot of private companies to do some of the work – but so did the Councils and many government departments.
Yes – they do use a company connected to Denis O’Brien to install some of the water meters – but (for now) he doesn’t own any part Irish Water.

Thanks for that, but why did the Irish government pump over 350 million into a company before they even got the Contract,a company that was up to its eyeballs in depth? Mm and was this the same guy that started a mobile phone company a long time ago, also who were his friends that helped him.
And does he still have the friends now to help him out now?!

Lucy and Harry

lanos wrote: »

Ok fair enough

That day I realised she was an idiot. But I wasn't with her for her brains.;)

I miss you too and your little man.:D

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

YOU obviously do.

Once again, you're mistaken.

dxhound2005

Most political observers reject the claim by the protestors that IW will be sold off. They say it is a lie.

Little CuChulainn

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Ok you have a fair point there, I'll admit that metering may change what the market deems a fair price and as a result plumbers may change their pricing to take advantage. I still don't think it'll effect the pricing to the extent you seem to think it will though as market forces still apply. The IW price is deliberately high in order to avoid becoming involved in the domestic plumbing market, it's not designed to be competitive. Any plumbers that attempt to match it will quickly find that out.

The claim that it will change the market is based on the flawed assumption that a service demand that doesn't now exist will suddenly exist to a degree that it controls the whole plumber market.

twowheelsgood

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Most political observers reject the claim by the protestors that IW will be sold off. They say it is a lie.

Given that the state resisted attempts to sell of the ESB when we had far less leverage it is curious that so many would see it as all but given that we will sell off IW?

Guy:Incognito

Tony EH wrote: »

That's not what I meant.

The problem lies with people voting for parties that their families have always voted for, without actually trying to find out what the actual policies are.

Your using it as a stick to beat certain parties with though.
Do you know how widespread it is (I don't) or if t makes a blind bit of difference in the grand scheme?

People always go on about elections not being on weekends to stop things like student groups voting out the established parties etc, but sure if so many of them are doing what their parents say , it would be beneficial to get as many voting as possible, no?

I couldn't tell you who my parents voted for over the years. I think I remember my mother voting for one of the local FG candidates recently but it was for a very local reason (and her a German and all).

Guy:Incognito

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Given that the state resisted attempts to sell of the ESB when we had far less leverage it is curious that so many would see it as all but given that we will sell off IW?

Maybe its the opposite. They own a good chunk of the banks now. Looks like theres less and less in private hands. Does Enda have a hammer and sickle tattoo on his shoulder?:pac:

deco nate

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What are you on about?

Your not limited to a certain amount of words so feel free to explain yourself.

Read your own post, it's water we are dealing with, IW and they have already denied that they have caused problems on the owners side by installing metres. Dont be a dick, you can read my previous posts.
Yet you want me to type it all over again just for you!?
Dl;Dr.... IW will not kill you, gas can... Yet you try to Put down my posts about being ripped off, and yes in the future they will have to be affiliated, ego more money.

Also IW will be sold off

Tony EH

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Your using it as a stick to beat certain parties with though.

No, I'm pointing out what's wrong and has been wrong for a long time with Ireland's voting habits.

Feel free to keep missing the point though and trying to derail the thread.

Guy:Incognito

Tony EH wrote: »

No, I'm pointing out what's wrong and has been wrong for a long time with Ireland's voting habits.

Feel free to keep missing the point though and trying to derail the thread.

How was the rest of my post, that you left out of the quote, anything to do with derailing the thread . It was very relevant.

Rubber_Soul

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The claim that it will change the market is based on the flawed assumption that a service demand that doesn't now exist will suddenly exist to a degree that it controls the whole plumber market.

It will likely change the market to some small degree in the short-term as households attempt to get property-side leaks fixed once metering begins. It would quickly normalize though.

deco nate

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Most political observers reject the claim by the protestors that IW will be sold off. They say it is a lie.

It will be sold off, for penny's to the pound /euro,
Anyone that thinks other wise is a fool.

Guy:Incognito

deco nate wrote: »

Read your own post, it's water we are dealing with, IW and they have already denied that they have caused problems on the owners side by installing metres. Dont be a dick, you can read my previous posts.
Yet you want me to type it all over again just for you!?
Dl;Dr.... IW will not kill you, gas can... Yet you try to Put down my posts about being ripped off, and yes in the future they will have to be affiliated, ego more money.

Also IW will be sold off

I only mentioned electricity and Gas because they are the ones that are likely to be brought up in a discussion about the parts of your post I can understand. You have to be RGI registered and have done your GIS and GID for good reason, because you can kill someone with bad workmanship on gas. How can having those safety measures be seen as a bad thing?

Now, back to water. What is there to suggest that there will be any changes to the system whereby you are responsible for your own pipework on your own property and your free to get a plumber of your own choosing to work on it, just like it always has been?

You can say IW will be sold but it's baseless and an opinion. Representing it as fact its just lieing.

cajonlardo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Most political observers reject the claim by the protestors that IW will be sold off. They say it is a lie.

Thanks for the laugh.

What Political Observers?

By definition they are the ones who were observing the politicians. Observing them accepting bribes,Observing them employing cronies, and observing them telling us umpteen lies in order to get elected.

In other words, Political Observers have no credibility or use to the ordinary person

gladrags

deco nate wrote: »

It will be sold off, for penny's to the pound /euro,
Anyone that thinks other wise is a fool.

Don't know if this was posted yet

Rte news

"Staff at Irish Water can benefit from an annual salary increase if it can be shown that pay has risen at rival or similar firms, as part of their controversial pay reward system, RTÉ's This Week has learned.

The 'Pay Progression' mechanism was agreed between management at Irish Water's parent company Ervia and unions last year.

The benchmarked pay increase mechanism is separate and additional to the payment of performance bonuses, which emerged last month. "

realdanbreen

The bottom line is because of rabble rousing by a buch of SF,Aaa,and 'whatvere your having yourself' independents, I and every other paye worker will end up forking out for someone elses bills as usual.I never voted FG but I would if they didn't cave in to this mob.

Banjo String

gladrags wrote: »

Don't know if this was posted yet

Rte news

"Staff at Irish Water can benefit from an annual salary increase if it can be shown that pay has risen at rival or similar firms, as part of their controversial pay reward system, RTÉ's This Week has learned.

The 'Pay Progression' mechanism was agreed between management at Irish Water's parent company Ervia and unions last year.

The benchmarked pay increase mechanism is separate and additional to the payment of performance bonuses, which emerged last month. "

When RTE are on your case........

You're bolloxed.

twowheelsgood

deco nate wrote: »

It will be sold off

So why wasn't / isn't the ESB sold off?

Pwindedd

Genuine question - if, as many here suggest that our government is useless and incompetent - then why is the privatisation of IW such a bad thing? Would it be full privatisation, whereby the assets (pipes and plants etc) are sold? Surely no company in their right mind would purchase them in their current condition, or would it be a lease type contract with the private company responsible for repairs and maintenance. The focus on the privatisation element I think is detracting from the real issue. The message has been so diluted I'm not even sure where I stand now.

I have registered. I am happy to pay for the water I use. I think water charges are a much fairer way of paying - everyone pays - I do however think the implementation has been a shambles. The information has not been very clear and I think a few quid spent on a decent PR campaign with full disclosure and clarity would have been preferable to all this gyms and bonuses nonsense.

I won't protest as there seems to be no clear directive from theses protests other than "we won't pay".

"We'll pay if it's done right and for the benefit of the nation", now if any protest had that message I'd be there supporting it.

Grandpa Hassan

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

we have always been paying for water through taxes.And now it will be double paying as this company wants cash now.Simple.Do you not understand that,.Do you think water falls from the sky lol :pac:

And our taxes are being reduced. Water should be paid for by all, like all utilities....and not fall overwhelmingly on the shoulder of the PAYE worker.

deco nate

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I only mentioned electricity and Gas because they are the ones that are likely to be brought up in a discussion about the parts of your post I can understand. You have to be RGI registered and have done your GIS and GID for good reason, because you can kill someone with bad workmanship on gas. How can having those safety measures be seen as a bad thing?

Now, back to water. What is there to suggest that there will be any changes to the system whereby you are responsible for your own pipework on your own property and your free to get a plumber of your own choosing to work on it, just like it always has been?

You can say IW will be sold but it's baseless and an opinion. Representing it as fact its just lieing.

Do you really think that IW will not be sold off? Fair enough on your points I called you on them and you made a great reply. However I stand by my other points, more so that IW is being built up to be sold off
For pounds/euro to the penny,
Way after we have pumped well over 350 million (minimum) into a what was a bankrupt company, that is my problem with this. Yet now they have a jym and all the mod cons+bonus. Can't you see why so many people have a problem with this?

Beaner1

F12 This is what they allow to police our streets: http://youtu.be/LdbbxmxuOQE

deco nate

twowheelsgood wrote: »

So why wasn't / isn't the ESB sold off?

Old school /embed in Irish social minds.. IW is, in most minds a new thing, easy to get rid of. Very easy to see when you have seen things happen abroad.

Little CuChulainn

Beaner1 wrote: »

F12 This is what they allow to police our streets: http://youtu.be/LdbbxmxuOQE

Fair play to him for taking all that abuse from some toerag without rising to it. Another credit to the force.

deco nate

realdanbreen wrote: »

Hey! They have a 'jym' lets take to the streets!
Ffs, you wouldn' see it in the simpsons!

Grow up!

Edit :care to add to the debate or are you just here to try to belittle me? Seeing as I have not seen a post by you?
Yea, that's what I thought....

gladrags

gladrags wrote: »

Don't know if this was posted yet

Rte news

"Staff at Irish Water can benefit from an annual salary increase if it can be shown that pay has risen at rival or similar firms, as part of their controversial pay reward system, RTÉ's This Week has learned.

The 'Pay Progression' mechanism was agreed between management at Irish Water's parent company Ervia and unions last year.

The benchmarked pay increase mechanism is separate and additional to the payment of performance bonuses, which emerged last month. "

But there will be no rival or similar firm. Who will they be making a comparison with?