***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

ninebeanrows

It would be sad now to see this government fall over a issue like water charges.

Water charges have been imposed throughout Europe for decades.

The FineGael/Lab coalition have brought stability to Ireland since the destruction of our state headed by Bertie Ahern, Charlie McCreevy and Bertie Ahern. Let's not down this government and lead us to a future where Sinn Fein has any say in the future of this country. It would be a sad sad point in Irish history. Our grandparents would turn in their graves if they thought Gerry Adams would lead this nation.

Iwasfrozen

Smidge wrote: »

What the hell does that mean? Peculiar turn of phrase

Anyway, a debate works two ways....

I gave information, you give counter information. Then discuss.

I have given you counter information, you say the charge is €4.88 euro per litre. This is €4.88 per litre beyond the free allowance of 30,000 litres a year.

So a single adult living alone uses 52,000 litres of water per year, source

He pays ((52,000 - 30,000)/1,000)*(4.88) = 107.36

107.36/52 = 2.06 euro per 1,000 litres.

Factor in tax relief at 20%:

(107.36 / 100)*20 = 21.472

107.36 - 21.472 = 85.93

85.93/52 = 1.65 euro per 1,000 litres.

Smidge

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Before I do that could you find out what those charges for the cities you listed include. Are they for the supply of water only or the supply of water and the treatment of waste water? That is a very important factor. If a house in Ireland gets mains water but has their own septic tank they pay half. And if they use the public sewers but have their own well or are on a local group supply they pay half.

I can tell you one thing for sure
I have a house in Spain(not the cities mentioned but still obviously relative to the discussion as, well, its Spain)

There are NO allowances.
Not for kids.
Not for dogs.
Not for alligators or even aardvarks.

And its boiling hot for the vast majority of the year(its glorious there at the minute for november and between last Mar and Aug there were FOUR days with rain).

You, dear dx, like so many others are steadfast in your own opinion and instead prefer to play at semantics and silly buggers than to actually see the wood for the trees.

mikom

Smidge wrote: »

I can tell you one thing for sure
I have a house in Spain(not the cities mentioned but still obviously relative to the discussion as, well, its Spain)

There are NO allowances.
Not for kids.
Not for dogs.
Not for alligators or even aardvarks.

And its boiling hot for the vast majority of the year(its glorious there at the minute for november and between last Mar and Aug there were FOUR days with rain).

You, dear dx, like so many others are steadfast in your own opinion and instead prefer to play at semantics and silly buggers than to actually see the wood for the trees.

What's the postal service like?

Smidge

mikom wrote: »

What's the postal service like?

Shyte

dxhound2005

Smidge wrote: »

I can tell you one thing for sure
I have a house in Spain(not the cities mentioned but still obviously relative to the discussion as, well, its Spain)

There are NO allowances.
Not for kids.
Not for dogs.
Not for alligators or even aardvarks.

And its boiling hot for the vast majority of the year(its glorious there at the minute for november and between last Mar and Aug there were FOUR days with rain).

You, dear dx, like so many others are steadfast in your own opinion and instead prefer to play at semantics and silly buggers than to actually see the wood for the trees.

Nothing semantic about it. You threw up a few numbers which you thought would get a cheer from the audience. Water charging is a complex subject. But it should be simple enough for you to find out if any or all of your list is a charge for water supply only or water supply and waste water disposal.

Micky Dolenz

mikom wrote: »

What's the postal service like?

Mod

Do this again and be permabanned from AH.

It's creepy.

Cop on.

Smidge

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Nothing semantic about it. You threw up a few numbers which you thought would get a cheer from the audience. Water charging is a complex subject. But it should be simple enough for you to find out if any or all of your list is a charge for water supply only or water supply and waste water disposal.

I dont want a cheer from the crowd. I'm not that needy

Tbh I was going to reply to IWF post re the costs, I will tomorrow because well at this hour of the night I don't feel sufficiently bothered to do so as its the same old circle jerk here the whole damn time(and I can't be bothered pointing out so many damn holes in it either).

I guess it just boils down to that.

My name is URL

Weathercheck wrote: »

Our grandparents would turn in their graves if they thought Gerry Adams would lead this nation.

After the **** that most of them turned a blind eye to and supported in their day they can burrow their way to Mexico for all I care about how they'd feel. They're probably half way there already.

Iwasfrozen

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Mod

Do this again and be permabanned from AH.

It's creepy.

Cop on.

What did he do?

Irish Steve

Smidge wrote: »

Dont know if anyone posted this yet but......

Water charges:

Milan €0.40 / 1000 litres

Athens €0.78 / 1000 litres

Madrid €0.99 / 1000 litres

Irish Water €4.88 / 1000 litres

Pre IW, Meath CC, who are not the cheapest, were putting water out at under €2 per 1000 Litres. €1.42 per 1000 plus a standing charge of €46.50 per six months. There is an additional charge for waste water disposal of €1.23 per 1000 Litres, so a combined rate of 2.65 per 1000 Litres,

On that basis, the "old" charge for the household allowance of 30.000 Litres would have been €3.32 per week. 60,000 per annum would have cost 4.86 per week from Mcc, and 60,000 will cost 2.91 per week from IW after the free allowance, or €5.63 per week if there is no allowance. The estimate for a personal use is around 120 L per day, which works out at 87,000 litres a year for 2 people, a charge of €5.35 per week from IW, it would have been €6.22 under the old MCC rates. The Old MCC figures relate to non residential property, ie, the commercial rate.

Now we get a much clearer picture of the IW position when compared to part of Europe. It would be fair to point out there are parts of Europe that pay a higher rate than those quoted above, but they are not as high as IW's rates, which we already know are not the full cost recovery rates.

Yes, they want to upgrade the network, but on what we've seen so far, their priorities and ethos are completely wrong, they're more worried about their perks and bonuses than they are about dealing with their customers.

To be specific, I wrote to IW on October 8th, I got a case number on Oct 20th, and the "local representative" is supposed to be contacting me. I'm still waiting, nearly a month later. That's not customer service, not even close.

I just hope that FG are listening to the increasing roars of protest, and are planning to do something fundamental about the mess they've created.

I'm not going to hold my breath, I'm not sure they actually know what to do, they are so far up their own delusions and embedded so deep in the corruption and sleeveen culture, finding their way back out and making real change is a concept that seems to be totally foreign to their culture.

Micky Dolenz

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What did he do?

Ask him.

Lets get back on topic please.

Guy:Incognito

Irish Steve wrote: »

Wrong, if you are connected to a main sewer, there is a charge for waste water disposal, and if you're not taking mains water, I am guessing that you will pay a flat fee for the use of the waste water service.

Get yourself a septic tank.

It was implied to disconnect on both ends :-)

Guy:Incognito

DamagedTrax wrote: »

3 out of 4 of those countries arent known for excessive wetness.

They are known for excessive financial ruin though.:-)

gladrags

Irish Steve wrote: »

I just hope that FG are listening to the increasing roars of protest, and are planning to do something fundamental about the mess they've created

Judging by the comments of Kenny,
Noonan and Hogan,over the last few days,they are beyond listening.

The FG mask has dropped.Labour have lost their way.

gladrags

Curly Judge wrote: »

Have you run that one past the ECB, they might have a passing interest in your proposal.

We are an independent state,we should be managing our own affairs.

Given the financial turmoil in the EU zone, I think a passing interest is apt.

gladrags

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Out of curiosity, do you give any credit to the government for our economic recovery since they came to power? Or do you even acknowledge that there even has been a recovery?

The so called recovery is at best minimal.
Against this,the toll of taxes,cut backs on essential services,the escalating housing crisis,and the various charges across the board.Have left people reeling.

Throw in the corruption and cronyism,and there you have it.

Smidge

Smidge wrote: »

Oh dx, dx, dx


London €1.63 / 1000 litres

Paris €2.16 / 1000 litres

Munich €2.26 / 1000 litres

3 of the MOST expensive cities in Europe to live in.

Would you like some blood to go with that?

Do they have a free allowance? I'm not sure you're comparing like with like.

mynameismud

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Taking the nominal value per litre without factoring in things like free allowance is being intellectually dishonest.

No such thing as free allowances

Phoebas wrote: »

The PPS number came into play when it was decided to give 'free' allowances. These allowances are actually paid for by the state who will pay the money to Irish Water. Irish Water will use the PPS number to verify with the Department of Social Protection that you are entitled to an allowance.

_Kaiser_

I'm sure this was mentioned, but I was away over the weekend so only catching up now:

According to reports in this morning's Sunday Times newspaper, the Commission for Energy Regulation will allow the company to levy a fee of just under €425 on people who don't register for their free household and child allowances.

So, let me get this straight. The whole notion that these Application Packs and PPS number requests were for you to claim your "free" allowances .. is actually just so they can ensure they can bill you after all and nothing at all to do with your "entitlements" (as I and many others have been saying!)

And now, if you don't claim these "freebies", we'll just hit you with a levy instead?? (which proves the point above)

I see reports as well that the Government is considering bring in the Revenue to enforce payment as well .. I said that at the start and it was even more obvious when they moved the whole IW setup to Finance during the cabinet reshuffle.

Let's see the pro-IW posters spin that one.

Banjo String

Deleted User wrote: »

Do they have a free allowance? I'm not sure you're comparing like with like.

Its not a free allowance.

It's to be allocated from the central pot. So already paid for by you, me and others.

DamagedTrax

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They are known for excessive financial ruin though.:-)

like ourselves then.

listermint

gladrags wrote: »

The so called recovery is at best minimal.
Against this,the toll of taxes,cut backs on essential services,the escalating housing crisis,and the various charges across the board.Have left people reeling.

Throw in the corruption and cronyism,and there you have it.

FG flag wavers dont want to see all the complete and utter contemptuous sleevin nonsense that has gone on the last 4 years. They keep pointing to FF policies that FG carried on as some sort of steering the ship in the right direction steadying they course and all the other crap that is spouted.

Facts are FG have done NOTHING they were not told to do by Germany and other EU leading countries. They have no policies of their own. There was nothing dynamic or ground breaking about the wait and see austerity policies that they have carried on and they had f all to do with the recovery of which has not yet and does not appear to be occurring in Europe.

All they did was wait and see, they put all the loans on the long finger and have had no impact or have not even attempted to look at some write down or write off of the bailout that was not ours to take on in the first place. And we have Noonan out soundbiting again about on going talks on a write down. Noonan is out of his depth.

And they failed to address any of their mandates for change which they heralded in the run up to the election.

I hate that people think they actually did anything of note with their current term, facts are they didnt. There is no bright sparks in that box of bulbs.

_Kaiser_

listermint wrote: »

FG flag wavers dont want to see all the complete and utter contemptuous sleevin nonsense that has gone on the last 4 years. They keep pointing to FF policies that FG carried on as some sort of steering the ship in the right direction steadying they course and all the other crap that is spouted.

Facts are FG have done NOTHING they were not told to do by Germany and other EU leading countries. They have no policies of their own. There was nothing dynamic or ground breaking about the wait and see austerity policies that they have carried on and they had f all to do with the recovery of which has not yet and does not appear to be occurring in Europe.

All they did was wait and see, they put all the loans on the long finger and have had no impact or have not even attempted to look at some write down or write off of the bailout that was not ours to take on in the first place. And we have Noonan out soundbiting again about on going talks on a write down. Noonan is out of his depth.

And they failed to address any of their mandates for change which they heralded in the run up to the election.

I hate that people think they actually did anything of note with their current term, facts are they didnt. There is no bright sparks in that box of bulbs.

It's probably also why FG have never had 2 successive terms in government - they're even worse than FF (which is saying something!). All they are is even more blatant and arrogant about the cronyism and corruption.

Kenny will (rightly) go down as the most ineffective "leader" we've had in living memory, if not ever!

FionnK86

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's probably also why FG have never had 2 successive terms in government - they're even worse than FF (which is saying something!). All they are is even more blatant and arrogant about the cronyism and corruption.

Kenny will (rightly) go down as the most ineffective "leader" we've had in living memory, if not ever!

Ahh c'mon now Cowen was worse...

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's probably also why FG have never had 2 successive terms in government - they're even worse than FF (which is saying something!). All they are is even more blatant and arrogant about the cronyism and corruption.

Kenny will (rightly) go down as the most ineffective "leader" we've had in living memory, if not ever!

I think history will prove different. They took over a right shambles and despite going about things in a cack handed way,, they HAVE gotten things moving again, despite the best efforts of a vocal minority.

_Kaiser_

FionnK86 wrote: »

Ahh c'mon now Cowen was worse...

I dunno. The irony with FF is that you know exactly what you're getting, and I reckon most people knew Cowen was being thrown under the bus for Bertie's antics.

Kenny however promised reform, transparency, a new way of doing things.. but that all ended as soon as they got their feet under the desk - or as one of his coalition colleague put it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAS0c5AkiNg

DamagedTrax

Deleted User wrote: »

I think history will prove different. They took over a right shambles and despite going about things in a cack handed way,, they HAVE gotten things moving again, despite the best efforts of a vocal minority.

shifting numbers around is not 'getting things moving'. you take a walk thru any working class area in dublin and you'll see the reality that FG like to ignore.

listermint

Deleted User wrote: »

I think history will prove different. They took over a right shambles and despite going about things in a cack handed way,, they HAVE gotten things moving again, despite the best efforts of a vocal minority.

They took over things that were in bits, and also took the FF handbook and continued to run with it.

They have NOT gotten things moving, they put loans on long finger. They have done nothing to stimulate the Economy, It is out of sheer luck and some multinational influx of tax monies with Tax Breaks that were still in place from years ago successive governments that managed to get Just Ireland tipping along.

This was not FG doing, they tied a rope around the rudder and stood at the front claiming to be steering, Frankly they are ready to jump of at the beach when we hit some rocks.

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

I think history will prove different. They took over a right shambles and despite going about things in a cack handed way,, they HAVE gotten things moving again, despite the best efforts of a vocal minority.

I think you'll find (as Listermint pointed out above) that all Kenny and Co have done is adopt a "wait and see" approach while squeezing the public for every cent they can so he can get his hair ruffled by Sarkozy and Merkel now and then for being such a "Good European" (or indeed the European of the Year 2012)

Any "recovery" under their stewardship is purely coincidental and thanks to external factors and private enterprise - all they've done is harp on (even now) about what they inherited from FF and introduce and extend humiliating slave labour programmes for those that they haven't managed to push out of the country, or back to Mammy and Daddy