***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

VinLieger

Part of Fine Gael's manifestos were the introduction of water charges of some kind, this is what people voted for simple as that, it's not FG fault if people didn't realise it while they were doing their anybody but FF tick of the boxes on election day

BoJack Horseman

listermint wrote: »

They have NOT gotten things moving, they put loans on long finger.

Only the promisory note monies is 'long figered'.... All the normal national debt is standard medium term bonds (3, 5 & 10yr)

They have done nothing to stimulate the Economy,

GNP growth of 3.5% - 4% this year says otherwise.

This was not FG doing, they tied a rope around the rudder and stood at the front claiming to be steering, Frankly they are ready to jump of at the beach when we hit some rocks.

I'd love to see the Shinners/Joe Higgins explain how their plan of wealth taxation, IFSC taxation, higher income taxation, higher employment taxation, higher taxation on profit making & capital gains will deliver faster growth than what is already continent leading numbers?

Rubberchikken

what a closed little shop.
this economic committee that decide the fate of IW/charges is made up os enda and three cronies. how is that even allowed?

where is the transparency?
i used to vote. i even voted for labour when they were of some use. i voted for the SF candidate in the local elections (best of a bad bunch). i'm starting to think i'll never vote again. after all, why bother? they're all the very same once they get their toe in the door of the dail and their signature on a very fat salary/pension.

FionnK86

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I dunno. The irony with FF is that you know exactly what you're getting, and I reckon most people knew Cowen was being thrown under the bus for Bertie's antics.

Kenny however promised reform, transparency, a new way of doing things.. but that all ended as soon as they got their feet under the desk - or as one of his coalition colleague put it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAS0c5AkiNg

Ahh no, Cowen was much worse now....

Barely There

Rubberchikken wrote: »

i voted for the SF candidate in the local elections (best of a bad bunch). i'm starting to think i'll never vote again.

That'd be great - thanks.

Lucy and Harry

Deleted User wrote: »

I think history will prove different. They took over a right shambles and despite going about things in a cack handed way,, they HAVE gotten things moving again, despite the best efforts of a vocal minority.

The people against water are not a minority.It is the other way around.1 million homes have not returned the water pack.And the ones that did most said not paying.An Post are full of non payment returns to Irish Water I know I work there.
I would also say it was not FG who sorted some of the FF made mess it was the IMF and our German masters and Troica.:P
It is the people who have had to suffer austerity that got us out of the crap.We are suffering and some cant heat their homes and put food on the table and now have another tax to go with the immoral house charge as Enda put it.It says it all that a terrorist party Shinn Fein is the leading party at the moment FG and FF and Labour are suffering in polls.Millions of tax payer funds have already gone to Irish Water who seem to be wasteful and already have made mistake after mistake in setting this company up.The majority of people in this country are AGAINST water charges and the way this company is set up.In a Democracy the leaders should respect the will of the people they serve but our leaders have no respect and will not listen to the MAJORITY.

gladrags

FG were a minority government.

The vast majority did not vote for them.

BoJack Horseman

gladrags wrote: »

The vast majority did not vote for them.

Ditto goes for the ruling parties ofany European nations.

So what?

Lucy and Harry

They will be voted out soon and never will get into power again.This was the big chance they had and they are blowing it.This tax was badly handled and is another jobs for the boys brown envelope Bertie Ahearn cronyism pig nose in the trough type politics FG said they would get rid of.We needed Germany and IMF to come in and show our ignorant leaders how to run a country.100 years a country and run like rubbish boom or bust through it all.We need new leaders we need a revolution.We need accountability.

VinLieger

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

They will be voted out soon and never will get into power again.This was the big chance they had and they are blowing it.This tax was badly handled and is another jobs for the boys brown envelope Bertie Ahearn cronyism pig nose in the trough type politics FG said they would get rid of.We needed Germany and IMF to come in and show our ignorant leaders how to run a country.100 years a country and run like rubbish boom or bust through it all.We need new leaders we need a revolution.We need accountability.

Just like FF will never get into power again? Yet their numbers are rising everyday? You are a bit naive at how short the memory of an Irish voter is and unrealistic in how many viable options we actually have when voting for a government

In Lonesome Dove

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's probably also why FG have never had 2 successive terms in government - they're even worse than FF (which is saying something!). All they are is even more blatant and arrogant about the cronyism and corruption.

Kenny will (rightly) go down as the most ineffective "leader" we've had in living memory, if not ever!

The news was on the other day and Michael Martin was yapping away and thought to myself and said it to my Mam as well - Michael Martin is coming across more sincere than Enda Kenny. My mam agreed with me too.

twowheelsgood

gladrags wrote: »

The so called recovery is at best minimal.

​Well lets see.
Deficit cut by about 8 billion.

Credit rating up and borrowing rate down

Fastest growth rate in the economy for 7 years

Employment rising

I am not sure what you are expecting from whatever government replaces the current lot but if you consider all of the above “minimal” I expect you will be disappointed.

gladrags wrote: »

Against this,the toll of taxes,cut backs on essential services ....it has left people reeling

Yes, it has left people reeling. Do you think there was or is a way out of the crisis that would not have left people reeling?​

VinLieger

twowheelsgood wrote: »

​
Yes, it has left people reeling. Do you think there was or is a way out of the crisis that would not have left people reeling?​

Sinn Feins money tree and magic wand obviously

Lucy and Harry

VinLieger wrote: »

Just like FF will never get into power again? Yet their numbers are rising everyday? You are a bit naive at how short the memory of an Irish voter is and unrealistic in how many viable options we actually have when voting for a government

I know you have a crush on FG and probably post leaflets for them around the election time but
FF are bad and FG are just as bad.2 peas in the same pod.Even the cracks are showing now in FG with people jumping ship.Labour are rubbish with Joan Phone Moan.If FG want to stay in power abolish this quango IW company now and listen to the people.Power to the people.We will rise up and protest.Cant pay wont pay.Our leaders have already paid millions of our cash to this IW to set them up and messed things up.If you think FG will be in power after the next elections good luck with that.It took many elections for FG to get into power and they blew it by being just another FF type party jobs for the boys and corrupt.

The Mayor of Drogheda has announced that he is to resign from Fine Gael in protest at the Government's handling of the water charges controversy.
He has also called on Fergus O'Dowd, who was Junior Minister at the Dept of the Environment when Irish Water was being established, to consider his position.
Kevin Callan says he will stay on as Mayor, but will become an independent member of Louth County Council.
His decision comes just 24 hours after mass protests up and down the country called for the charges to be scrapped.
"People in general have reached boiling point when it comes to water," he said.
"As Mayor of Drogheda, I'm aware of the fact that we had over 8,000 people, nearly a third of our entire town, on the streets protesting this.
"I think it's the weeks of bonuses, allowances - everything that's wrong with the system in this country.
"I am joining the people of my town to say that I've had enough of it, and I'm resigning from the Fine Gael party in protest, and becoming an independent."
Louth TD and Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams welcomed the decision, saying: "I commend the action of the Mayor of Drogheda, Kevin Callan in resigning from Fine Gael.
"He has clearly witnessed the people's anger over water charges and has recognised that the Fine Gael leadership is not listening.
"I would hope that others in Fine Gael and Labour follow Mr Callan's example and stand with the people rather than the Government on this issue."

listermint

VinLieger wrote: »

Part of Fine Gael's manifestos were the introduction of water charges of some kind, this is what people voted for simple as that, it's not FG fault if people didn't realise it while they were doing their anybody but FF tick of the boxes on election day

Oh right, I hadnt realised they were going to introduce them with all the intelligence of an unschooled 5 year old.

Treat the voters with Contempt in setup from start to finish.

Give jobs to their buddies, their back slappers and some to their party funders.

_Kaiser_

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

The news was on the other day and Michael Martin was yapping away and thought to myself and said it to my Mam as well - Michael Martin is coming across more sincere than Enda Kenny. My mam agreed with me too.

Michael Martin is another one that shouldn't see government again, but yes it's a sad state of affairs when the bunch that caused the mess in the first place come off as more credible than the current lot.

Kenny doesn't do sincere, he doesn't do debate and he certainly doesn't do questions. All Kenny can do is spout scripted drivel safely behind the camera and away from anyone who might ask him to discuss - just think back to him on TV lecturing us like schoolchildren about how we will pay our bills and so on.

Don't forget this guy was nearly overthrown before the last election - a good portion of even his own party has no faith in him

Lucy and Harry

twowheelsgood wrote: »

​Well lets see.
Deficit cut by about 8 billion.

Credit rating up and borrowing rate down

Fastest growth rate in the economy for 7 years

Employment rising
​

Thank Germany and IMF for that they run the country.Our budget goes to Germany before it goes to the Dail for approval.When in 100 years has this place been run properly??When John Gilligan cant say where he got his bag of cash from his cash is taken from him.When Bertie has brown envelopes he cant explain he keeps his cash and gets no jail time for corruption.Great leaders we seem to get in this country.:eek:

FF and FG are the same.Do not vote for them.They do not give a dam about people.

Caliden

twowheelsgood wrote: »

​Well lets see.
Deficit cut by about 8 billion.

Credit rating up and borrowing rate down

Fastest growth rate in the economy for 7 years

Employment rising

I am not sure what you are expecting from whatever government replaces the current lot but if you consider all of the above “minimal” I expect you will be disappointed.
Yes, it has left people reeling. Do you think there was or is a way out of the crisis that would not have left people reeling?​

You have to ask, how much of that was because of government intervention or would have it occurred naturally or even at a better rate with a different cabinet makeup

twowheelsgood

Caliden wrote: »

You have to ask, how much of that was because of government intervention or would have it occurred naturally or even at a better rate with a different cabinet makeup

Hard to say how much credit you give to the government for this - definitely more than 0 IMO.

But it is most certainly not minimal.

listermint

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Only the promisory note monies is 'long figered'.... All the normal national debt is standard medium term bonds (3, 5 & 10yr)



GNP growth of 3.5% - 4% this year says otherwise.



I'd love to see the Shinners/Joe Higgins explain how their plan of wealth taxation, IFSC taxation, higher income taxation, higher employment taxation, higher taxation on profit making & capital gains will deliver faster growth than what is already continent leading numbers?

Calling them Promissory Notes and stating their period of length is the same as what i said, Putting them on the long finger and not handling any write downs very well. These were FF policies, but i have stated that twice. You chose to ignore that twice.

The Growth has nothing to do with FG, they did nothing. They stimulated nothing, they did what Europe wanted 'NOTHING' let us wait and see. Let us not spend anything to stimulate let us just increase some taxes and call them charges. The only way we achieved growth was solely due to existing tax circumstances for Multinationals. FG again touched nothing. We just kept tipping along. Meanwhile Europe Stagnates and continues to Stagnate. Do you think our tipping along will continue if Europe Continues to Stagnate.

Enda is waiting to be told what to do next. FG have no real ideas, they have no intelligent thinkers in their party. They are keeping the status quo within all departments. And creating more qwangos to the list of ones they said they would get rid of.

My analogy of the rope around the rudder is sound. Europe is in turmoil. Germanys plan is doing nothing to help , its not evening helping germany they have achieved no gains in growth and are just trucking along on exports of the back of the rest of Europe.

What do FG have in their pocket to address this problem which is lurking in the background ?

The are ready to bail our the front of this boat and alot of them on 2-3 combined pensions.

Lucy and Harry

twowheelsgood wrote: »

​
. Do you think there was or is a way out of the crisis that would not have left people reeling?​

How about we never let Cowan take on the debt and put it onto our children and children's children.FF should not have bailed out banks.Should have set up a new government bank instead and let bondholders get stuffed for gambling on the wrong horse.

BoJack Horseman

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

FF should not have bailed out banks.Should have set up a new government bank instead and let bondholders get stuffed for gambling on the wrong horse.

That's easy.

What would you have done regarding the €50bn+ in debt accumulated between 2009 & 2014 just running the country (excluding bank chicanery)

VinLieger

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

I know you have a crush on FG and probably post leaflets for them around the election time but
FF are bad and FG are just as bad.2 peas in the same pod.Even the cracks are showing now in FG with people jumping ship.Labour are rubbish with Joan Phone Moan.If FG want to stay in power abolish this quango IW company now and listen to the people.Power to the people.We will rise up and protest.Cant pay wont pay.

I really don't I just think they are the best of a bad bunch and again you are just incredibly naive about how short a memory Irish voters have

Caliden

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

How about we never let Cowan take on the debt and put it onto our children and children's children.FF should not have bailed out banks.Should have set up a new government bank instead and let bondholders get stuffed for gambling on the wrong horse.

"Warning: If you invest in these funds you may lose some or all of the money you invest. (unless you're an Anglo bondholder, then it's guaranteed profit)

listermint

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

That's easy.

What would you have done regarding the €50bn+ in debt accumulated between 2009 & 2014 just running the country?

Not guaranteed unsecure bonds for one.

Why did we guarantee unsecured bonds ? It still to this day does not make sense.

_Kaiser_

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

How about we never let Cowan take on the debt and put it onto our children and children's children.FF should not have bailed out banks.Should have set up a new government bank instead and let bondholders get stuffed for gambling on the wrong horse.

The Triche letter to Lenihan will clear this up - reports suggest we were effectively blackmailed into it by our "friends" in Europe, ie: "take the bailout or we'll cut your support now!"

BoJack Horseman

listermint wrote: »

Not guaranteed unsecure bonds for one.

Why did we guarantee unsecured bonds ? It still to this day does not make sense.

I said regarding the primary deficit.

What the far-left chose to forget is that the day-to-day deficit in the running of the state has cost nearly as much as the banking crisis.

Apparently every single cut & tax is about "bondholders".... Which isn't the case.

listermint

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The Triche letter to Lenihan will clear this up - reports suggest we were effectively blackmailed into it by our "friends" in Europe, ie: "take the bailout or we'll cut your support now!"

And what support we got, given loans at far more interest than was friendly . Said loans are highly profitable. This is not the Europe of friends, in fact we were treated far more reasonably by the IMF. as they just wanted to get in and out. Europe were looking to tie up their problems on Ireland. And they successfully achieved it.

Stargate

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Michael Martin is another one that shouldn't see government again, but yes it's a sad state of affairs when the bunch that caused the mess in the first place come off as more credible than the current lot.

Kenny doesn't do sincere, he doesn't do debate and he certainly doesn't do questions. All Kenny can do is spout scripted drivel safely behind the camera and away from anyone who might ask him to discuss - just think back to him on TV lecturing us like schoolchildren about how we will pay our bills and so on.

Don't forget this guy was nearly overthrown before the last election - a good portion of even his own party has no faith in him

It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.
-Mark Twain-


http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2014/1024/20141024_rteradio1-callanskicks-endasdiary_c20670804_20670812_232_.mp3

gladrags

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Ditto goes for the ruling parties ofany European nations.

So what?

Just a simple truth, they are not representative of the majority, because the majority did not vote for them.

Luckily enough.