***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

BoJack Horseman

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

reports suggest we were effectively blackmailed into it by our "friends" in Europe, ie: "take the bailout or we'll cut your support now!"

We know that's exactly what happened.

Fra, Get & even Tim Geitner in the Obama administration were hammering FF to bail out the banks.

Ireland's imminent default was the quid-pro-quo

listermint

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I said regarding the primary deficit.

What the far-left chose to forget is that the day-to-day deficit in the running of the state has cost nearly as much as the banking crisis.

Apparently every single cut & tax is about "bondholders".... Which isn't the case.

No but we could have borrowed the day to day running fairly readily if we hadnt let Europe tie the unsecure bonds to our raft.


But you already know that.

_Kaiser_

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I said regarding the primary deficit.

What the far-left chose to forget is that the day-to-day deficit in the running of the state has cost nearly as much as the banking crisis.

Apparently every single cut & tax is about "bondholders".... Which isn't the case.

Every modern Western country runs a deficit - we're far from alone in this .. it's the way the current economic model coupled with politicians buying votes works.

Debt in itself is not a bad thing as long as it's sustainable and serviceable. Crippling the majority of the taxpayers with a host of charges, levies and taxes-by-another-name to benefit speculators who gambled and lost is where the problems began.

twowheelsgood

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

How about we never let Cowan take on the debt and put it onto our children and children's children.FF should not have bailed out banks.Should have set up a new government bank instead and let bondholders get stuffed for gambling on the wrong horse.

Even if we were not saddled with the banking debt we were still in an almighty hole. We had a defective of about 20b 5 years ago, about 7b now. And we pay I think 1.6b in interest on bank debts.

So an adjustment of 13 v 11.5?

BoJack Horseman

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Every modern Western country runs a deficit -

Except the government will have a primary surplus for this year. (0.3% of GDP)

As someone vehemently opposed to the government this must irk you.

The €7 billion borrowed will be to cover debt repayment.... Of which 1/4 is bondholder crap

listermint

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Except the government will have a primary surplus for this year.

As someone vehemently opposed to the government this must irk you.

The €7 billion borrowed will be to cover debt repayment.... Of which 1/4 is bondholder crap

If the surplus is so fabtastic, Why the need to get the Water Infrastructure off the books with a view to privatisation.

Afterall we are growing so well. Surely then it stands to reason its time to invest in 'real' growth. A Stimulus if you will.


I mean you are telling us everything is FabTastic and the brains in Leinster House corridors have achieved it all.

Lucy and Harry

Independents, Sinn Fein...Anyone bar the FFFGLAB Hogs at the Trough...Give others who have the peoples interests at heart, not the Hogs...The Times they are a changing...!!!I cant wait till we have a government without FG or FF for the first time in our history.

I really don't I just think they are the best of a bad bunch and again you are just incredibly naive about how short a memory Irish voters have

If you think FG and FF are different you are not seeing reality.If you continue to vote for the same old same old and get the same crap results every time surely voting for something different is the best thing to do.Doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same results is silly.The only way to change things is to give your vote not to FG or FF but to others who are not greedy corrupt jobs for the boys con men snake oil salesmen.
If we are so dumb as to vote for FF and FG for the rest of our lives then we get what we deserve.You get the leaders you deserve.Maybe we get pig ignorant uneducated leaders who only care about making cash off our backs because we settle for less and accept things.

tayto lover

What annoys me about the TD's who are trying to get us to buy into IW is that they are costing us 309,912 euro each per annum.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-cost-td-ministers-pension-811180-Mar2013/

What other section of our workforce gets paid to go to work or gets perks like this?
It's a disgrace.

BoJack Horseman

listermint wrote: »

If the surplus is so fabtastic, Why the need to get the Water Infrastructure off the books with a view to privatisation.

I'd hazard a guess that its cos it was an electoral process.

Plus, utilities borrowing their own money to fund investments is very normal & very preferable to government doing it.

Are you anti-surplus & pro-debt?

Odd.

Lucy and Harry

So if we do not pay we get a bill of 428 euro in January so what can they do then?Send Debt collectors or threaten Jail?What happened to the new jail they were building and spent millions more than the land was worth did they decide not to go ahead after all and just wasted the cash?Maybe they will have to actually go ahead and build it for the 1 million people who have not paid.You get free water in jail how Ironic and no house charge yay free food and education too.Jail is a better alternative to some who go hungry in this country.Thanks FG and FF.

Cuttlefish

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Yep! I do understand. And the money we had been paying that would have paid for water provision will no longer be used for this purpose and will be used for something else. So no, no double payment.

Do you have proof to back up this statement?

So you have agreed it is a double tax as we have already paid through central taxation and now that money will be used elsewhere???

listermint

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that its cos it was an electoral process.

Plus, utilities borrowing their own money to fund investments is very normal & very preferable to government doing it.

Are you anti-surplus & pro-debt?

Odd.

No I am Anti Cheering for people who have no responsibility for current growth patterns. And are seriously under represented in the bright ideas department.

Since you are are so Pro FG and quite clearly have some interest of the party.

( I voted for them btw)

Tell me what they have on the horizon in terms of Europes current stagnation. What will the prospect of Quantitive Easing have on Ireland Inc.

Or has Germany not gotten around to making that call to Kildare Street yet?


Making silly statements that arent black and white like are you pro debt is the kind of stupid deflection id expect from a FG shill. Sure its the same nonsense that they do in the Dail. Frankly bringing the house into disrepute and sullying my vote.

papu

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

So if we do not pay we get a bill of 428 euro in January so what can they do then?Send Debt collectors or threaten Jail?What happened to the new jail they were building and spent millions more than the land was worth did they decide not to go ahead after all and just wasted the cash?Maybe they will have to actually go ahead and build it for the 1 million people who have not paid.You get free water in jail how Ironic and no house charge yay free food and education too.Jail is a better alternative to some who go hungry in this country.Thanks FG and FF.

Hopefully they'll just bring in a way to cut off non payers.

smash

papu wrote: »

Hopefully they'll just bring in a way to cut off non payers.

Any deny people the rights to basic personal hygiene. Yea, I don't think so...

Grandpa Hassan

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

So if we do not pay we get a bill of 428 euro in January so what can they do then?Send Debt collectors or threaten Jail?What happened to the new jail they were building and spent millions more than the land was worth did they decide not to go ahead after all and just wasted the cash?Maybe they will have to actually go ahead and build it for the 1 million people who have not paid.You get free water in jail how Ironic and no house charge yay free food and education too.Jail is a better alternative to some who go hungry in this country.Thanks FG and FF.

No-one's going to jail. You'll just screw your credit rating. And I certainly wouldn't like to be in a position where I couldn't get a loan or credit card or buy a car or get any finance for a new sofa.

twowheelsgood

Cuttlefish wrote: »

Do you have proof to back up this statement?

It requires reasoning, not proof.

papu

smash wrote: »

Any deny people the rights to basic personal hygiene. Yea, I don't think so...

They do it in other countries , america for example. People would be free to collect rain.

Lucy and Harry

papu wrote: »

Hopefully they'll just bring in a way to cut off non payers.

Yeah more poverty is great isnt it.And if you lose your job tomoro and do not have the cash to pay do you want to not have showers or baths or flush toilets or drinking water?The haves and have nots.But remember the people have a vote and the MAJORITY will vote out FG if they try that CRAP.Would you like absentee landlords back too.Maybe kick people from their homes and into hedges to live.

People would be free to collect rain.

And people were free to eat grass during the famine as they watched food being shipped to the UK from Ireland the ''bread Basket'' of Britain.Maybe we should go back to eating potatos 3 times a day.Sure if we get another blight we can just let the serfs and peasants die off.

Cuttlefish

twowheelsgood wrote: »

It requires reasoning, not proof.

So the answer is... No

Curly Judge

listermint wrote: »

No I am Anti Cheering for people who have no responsibility for current growth patterns. And are seriously under represented in the bright ideas department.

Since you are are so Pro FG and quite clearly have some interest of the party.

( I voted for them btw)

Tell me what they have on the horizon in terms of Europes current stagnation. What will the prospect of Quantitive Easing have on Ireland Inc.

Or has Germany not gotten around to making that call to Kildare Street yet?


Making silly statements that arent black and white like are you pro debt is the kind of stupid deflection id expect from a FG shill. Sure its the same nonsense that they do in the Dail. Frankly bringing the house into disrepute and sullying my vote.

We already owe upwards of 200 billion!
Just how much more f**king Quantitative Easing would you suggest?

Lucy and Harry

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

No-one's going to jail. You'll just screw your credit rating. And I certainly wouldn't like to be in a position where I couldn't get a loan or credit card or buy a car or get any finance for a new sofa.

I have a job so I would still get one and I pay my car repayments back so I have a good rep.If no 1 pays the IW cant exist.And the Majority OF THE PEOPLE WINS.They can cut the water off and I do not have to pay.Why should I pay?If I do not use Gas I do not have to pay a bill.Why pay for water if they turn it off.

Banjo String

papu wrote: »

They do it in other countries , america for example. People would be free to collect rain.

America also executes prisoners, should we do that too?

BoJack Horseman

Banjo String wrote: »

America also executes prisoners, should we do that too?

Terrific counter- argument.

Norway loves to bury harpoons in whales, and pays for its water.

Ergo, we should hunt whales too.

Lucy and Harry

I would hunt the Bankers and Cowen and Bertie with a harpoon.I will pay my water charge if I am allowed put them up against a wall and punish them for selling us down the river and treason.

Banjo String

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Terrific argument.

If you want to argue the merits of something (deemed a human right) by the Un based on how Americans do something, then my point has 110% relevancy to the discussion.

FionnK86

Why can't we just form a good new party instead of voting for the same cronies every couple of decades....?

Lucy and Harry

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

So if we do not pay we get a bill of 428 euro in January so what can they do then?Send Debt collectors or threaten Jail?What happened to the new jail they were building and spent millions more than the land was worth did they decide not to go ahead after all and just wasted the cash?Maybe they will have to actually go ahead and build it for the 1 million people who have not paid.You get free water in jail how Ironic and no house charge yay free food and education too.Jail is a better alternative to some who go hungry in this country.Thanks FG and FF.

The majority will pay. It's even on the Poll on the top of this topic. No one WANTS to pay extra charges, but the majority will see the reasoning behind it and comply. (Though I really do worry for the wellbeing of the 25 deluded souls that think Kersplat is handsome)

Lucy and Harry

FionnK86 wrote: »

Why can't we just form a good new party instead of voting for the same cronies every couple of decades....?

Coz some people think voting for FG and FF and getting the same crap results over and over is a great idea.

listermint

Curly Judge wrote: »

We already owe upwards of 200 billion!
Just how much more f**king Quantitative Easing would you suggest?

You obviously didnt read my post.

Whatsoever.

Or dont have a crasp of the concept

knock yourself out and come back

http://online.wsj.com/articles/toxic-italy-is-the-crucial-test-for-qe-in-europe-1414963694

http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2014/oct/29/quantitative-easing-policy-stimulus-janet-yellen-ecb

Lucy and Harry

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

I would hunt the Bankers and Cowen and Bertie with a harpoon.I will pay my water charge if I am allowed put them up against a wall and punish them for selling us down the river and treason.

Oh, Dear. Whatever happened to peaceful protest?