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***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

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    #9152
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    listermint wrote: »
    Do i need to get crayons to demonstrate how the term populist cannot be applied to politics. Politics is ALL ABOUT popularity.
    Crayons will be no help because populism most certainly does have a particular (pejorative) meaning in politics, though you appear to be genuinely unfamiliar with it.


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    #9153
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,975 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    I think you are right. Alas that is history. But I think these discussions show why populism is so, well, popular in Irish politics.

    And the turmoil of the last few years has shown, for those who look, how disastrous this can be.

    Populism is not the only bad thing in Irish politics.
    It goes hand in hand with cronyism. Equal and opposite.


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    #9154
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Populism is not the only bad thing in Irish politics.
    It goes hand in hand with cronyism. Equal and opposite.
    Cronyism probably annoys people more but populism has been far more destructive for us.


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    #9155
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,975 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    Cronyism probably annoys people more but populism has been far more destructive for us.

    It's debatable.


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    #9156
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    why did we accept such a bad deal?

    why did certain people get jobs in europe and why are certain people in line for them when their time in government here is up?

    im willing to bet the two are related.


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    #9157
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    tayto lover wrote: »
    It's debatable.
    I would say that our delightful debt of €200 billion is in great measure a consequence of a number of populist decision made by politicians over the years. It would take a far bit of cronyism to do that kind of damage.
    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    why did certain people get jobs in europe and why are certain people in line for them when their time in government here is up?
    im willing to bet the two are related.
    Ridiculous


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    #9158
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    twowheelsgood wrote: »


    Ridiculous

    how have you come to your beautifully succinct conclusion?

    you think hogan would have ever been even thought about, had he not done his euro masters' bidding? they wouldnt have let that bloated oaf shine their shoes unless he brought something to the table.


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    #9159
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    papu wrote: »
    Perhaps ask them ? They have a twitter

    You won't get a straight answer.


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    #9160
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,975 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    I would say that our delightful debt of €200 billion is in great measure a consequence of a number of populist decision made by politicians over the years. It would take a far bit of cronyism to do that kind of damage.

    I would think that cronyism has played a major part in the mistrust of the people towards this present Govt. After all they were the people who promised to stop cronyism after ousting FF. It has however increased alarmingly and is partly the reason why so many have taken to the streets. It could yet cause quite a lot of damage especially to FG.


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    #9161
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    how have you come to your beautifully succinct conclusion?

    you think hogan would have ever been even thought, about had he not done his euro masters' bidding? they wouldnt have let that bloated oaf shine their shoes unless he brought something to the table.
    You do realize that the Troika came to town under Fianna Fáil's watch. And that Hogan is in Fine Gael?


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    #9162
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I would think that cronyism has played a major part in the mistrust of the people towards this present Govt.
    I think people don't give a toss about cronyism if the economy is going well. It didn't bother us in the slightest what FF were getting up to while the tiger was roaring. We only got all troubled about ethics with the economy tanked.

    Same with FG. If there was no need to impose additional austere measures a lot of the stuff that is going on in their ranks would only attract criticism from a minority.


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    #9163
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    You do realize that the Troika came to town under Fianna Fáil's watch. And that Hogan is in Fine Gael?

    you do realise that the troika couldn't give a monkeys scrotum about what party anyone is from... as if it even matters.

    hogan did what he was told and got rewarded.


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    #9164
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,975 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    I think people don't give a toss about cronyism if the economy is going well. It didn't bother us in the slightest what FF were getting up to while the tiger was roaring. We only got all troubled about ethics with the economy tanked.

    Same with FG. If there was no need to impose additional austere measures a lot of the stuff that is going on in their ranks would only attract criticism from a minority.

    The views of many of the protesters I have marched with would tend to differ from that.


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    #9165
    Creative Juices
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Creative Juices


    http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php


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    #9166
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    you do realise that the troika couldn't give a monkeys scrotum about what party anyone is from... as if it even matters.

    hogan did what he was told and got rewarded.
    So the bad deal we got where we got saddled with the bank debts, was agreed by FF ... so that a political opponent in FG would get a nice job?

    Beyond ridiculous!


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    #9167
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,047 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/

    This one is very pretty

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/


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    #9168
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    So the bad deal we got where we got saddled with the bank debts, was agreed by FF ... so that a political opponent in FG would get a nice job?

    Beyond ridiculous!

    i think you misunderstood what i was saying..

    FF had nothing to do with the fact that enda will probably go to europe either. what i meant was that bad deals seem to go hand in hand with future european jobs. FF arent in power to reap the tailend benefits.. but the party that continue with the austerity program most certainly will.


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    #9169
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    tayto lover wrote: »
    The views of many of the protesters I have marched with would tend to differ from that.
    That's what they would say and I think that's what they genuinely believe.

    But riddle me this. Why was "blank cheque" Bertie Ahern of the early and mid nineties the most popular politician of his generation whereas "I won it on a horse" Bertie was a total hate figure.

    Simples. The economy roared in the first era and went down the toilet in the second.

    Our economy will recover (eventually). We still produce plenty of dodgy politicians (guaranteed) but you watch how little people care about their dodginess, as long as the economy is going well.

    For better or worse, it is, always was, always will be, the economy stupid.


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    #9170
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    i think you misunderstood what i was saying..

    FF had nothing to do with the fact that enda will probably go to europe either. what i meant was that bad deals seem to go hand in hand with future european jobs. FF arent in power to reap the tailend benefits.. but the party that continue with the austerity program most certainly will.

    The also went hand in hand with full moons. :rolleyes:

    Fianna Fail accepted a very bad deal from the Troika because there was no other on offer. Alas, it was no more conspiratorial than that.


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    #9171
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    Fianna Fail accepted a very bad deal from the Troika because there was no other on offer. Alas, it was no more conspiratorial than that.

    by definition a conspiracy is "an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons"

    it most definitely was a conspiracy as it adheres to at least 2 of the set standards.. but if you want to argue with the dictionary, you're more than welcome.


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    #9172
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    by definition a conspiracy is "an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons"

    it most definitely was a conspiracy as it adheres to at least 2 of the set standards.. but if you want to argue with the dictionary, you're more than welcome.

    Which two?


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    #9173
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    Which two?

    take your pick.


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    #9174
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,047 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    by definition a conspiracy is "an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons"

    it most definitely was a conspiracy as it adheres to at least 2 of the set standards.. but if you want to argue with the dictionary, you're more than welcome.

    Here's a couple of definitions for conspiracy theory.

    1.
    a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.

    2.
    the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.


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    #9175
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Here's a couple of definitions for conspiracy theory.

    1.
    a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.

    2.
    the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.

    thats nice. but i'll stick to the actual dictionary definition of what a conspiracy is.

    again, you're welcome to argue your point but i think ive got mr collins on my side on this one.


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    #9176
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,975 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Here's a couple of definitions for conspiracy theory.

    1.
    a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.

    2.
    the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.

    You didn't retract that post where you deemed the majority of protesters in Dundalk as belonging to a republican group and suggesting that they read a statement from the podium. Be a man now DX.


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    #9177
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    take your pick.
    Surreptitious? Maybe.

    The rest? Don't fit at all.


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    #9178
    Stargate
    Registered Users Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    tayto lover wrote: »
    You didn't retract that post where you deemed the majority of protesters in Dundalk as belonging to a republican group and suggesting that they read a statement from the podium. Be a man now DX.

    Been waiting on too , never going to happen i'd say .


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    #9179
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    Surreptitious? Maybe.

    The rest? Don't fit at all.

    evil? fair enough if you believe any of those idiots have your well being in mind. i personally dont, so evil works just fine for me.

    treacherous? most definitely. if you dont believe that the public on large feels fukced over then you need to pay a little more attention to whats happening.

    a plan formulated in secret by two or more persons? the 'letter' alone is proof of this.

    even if i give you 'evil', thats still 3 for 4.


  • Options
    #9180
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    so Irish Water have decided to send their staff on courses to help them deal with public anger. and whilst you cant blame the staff for the sham that is IW as they only doing a job its an indication that they along with the government are preparing to go to war with the people over this. if the powers that be decide to dig in and take the people on I can see one of two outcomes - they win and the charges obviously go through or they lose getting hammered in the process and it may well bring the government down. the way people are feeling right now Im not sure there is much middle ground if any. I think they are underestimating just where a large proportion of the people are right now either through arrogance or sheer pig headedness. or they just dont give a sh1t. when Irish people take to the streets in the numbers we have seen things tend to happen for better or worse. the government needs to thread very very carefully here.

    __________________________________________________________________________

    The CEO of Irish Water has defended paying for his staff to attend courses on stress management.
    John Tierney says his company has a responsibility to make sure staff are capable of doing their jobs.
    It was reported today that some staff are being sent on courses in "resilience training" to help them deal with the public anger about the charges.
    John Tierney says he has a duty to his employees: "Every organisation has a training programme in order to assist their staff and particularly in relation to issues around health and safety.
    "There’s an absolute obligation on us to be able to ensure that our staff have the capacity to deal with particular situations that may arise."
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/iw-staff-sent-on-courses-to-help-them-deal-with-public-anger-649643.html


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    #9181
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    WakeUp wrote: »
    so Irish Water have decided to send their staff on courses to help them deal with public anger. and whilst you cant blame the staff for the sham that is IW as they only doing a job its an indication that they along with the government are preparing to go to war with the people over this. if the powers that be decide to dig in and take the people on I can see one of two outcomes - they win and the charges obviously go through or they lose getting hammered in the process and it may well bring the government down. the way people are feeling right now Im not sure there is much middle ground if any. I think they are underestimating just where a large proportion of the people are right now either through arrogance or sheer pig headedness. or they just dont give a sh1t. when Irish people take to the streets in the numbers we have seen things tend to happen for better or worse. the government needs to thread very very carefully here.

    __________________________________________________________________________

    The CEO of Irish Water has defended paying for his staff to attend courses on stress management.
    John Tierney says his company has a responsibility to make sure staff are capable of doing their jobs.
    It was reported today that some staff are being sent on courses in "resilience training" to help them deal with the public anger about the charges.
    John Tierney says he has a duty to his employees: "Every organisation has a training programme in order to assist their staff and particularly in relation to issues around health and safety.
    "There’s an absolute obligation on us to be able to ensure that our staff have the capacity to deal with particular situations that may arise."
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/iw-staff-sent-on-courses-to-help-them-deal-with-public-anger-649643.html

    Is their customer service outsourced?


This discussion has been closed.
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