***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Irish Steve

Well, that was boring. Just spent way too long reading all of the entries for today, and there's so little real original thought or ideas here, it's even more depressing.

I suspect that very few will be prepared to accept that this might work, and in some ways, it's diverting from the very real issue which is that IW as presently structured cannot proceed, if it's sorted, then IW HAS to proceed, if for no other reason than to get the sleeveen politicians out of the direct loop in order to ensure that water and waste water is properly and adequately funded, rather than the funds being diverted to some local vote winning scheme that is visible and has a short term payback in terms of votes.

So , how do we start to sort the many and wider issues in the longer term.

Bring back the Troika/IMF, but instead of bailing out the bankers, and the multinationals, how about we address the massive budget deficit that's down to the profligate spending of the Governments of the last 25 or so years?

So, the first thing that needs to happen is that the IMF/Troika carry out an in depth review of the state and semi state services, in terms of what they are really doing, how they are doing it, and the resources they need to do it, and the validity of them continuing to do it.

Then having done that, they deal with the waste, and please, let's be honest here, while there has been some tinkering around the edges, there are still massive problems with the State sector, and the way it operates. Close down ALL the state and semi state services, (not all at the same time) and re employ the people that they need to run them, NOT all the present employees that are there regardless of if they are needed or not, or if they can actually do the job or not, and employ them on new contracts that don't have all the perks, special allowances and every other unacceptable practice that has been put into place over the last 30 years.

Oh, and by the way, the multiple platinum plated inflation proofed pensions that were never paid for or justified are also gone, especially for the people that were deepest into the trough, on the basis that there's no money there to pay for them any more, so the people that are freeloading at the very top might actually have to live on state pension, like the people they were (supposedly) representing. Harsh? Maybe, but in some cases, totally deserved in terms of the corruption, nepotism and cronyism that brought it about, None of us voted for it, why should we now be forced to pay for it?

The people that are not needed by the new state services either retire on "standard" pensions, or get Social Welfare, just like anyone else, It's no different to exactly what was forced on to huge numbers of people in the private sector by the errors and worse of the previous administrations. Huge numbers of people have lost their savings, their pensions, and their pension pot that was in the value of their property as a result of the actions of the political elite, so they now need to share in the pain that they have inflicted on the people they were representing so badly.


For the future, the differentiation between state services and private companies and the self employed all go, especially all the special PRSI rate variances, that's gone, as are all the other different rates of tax, and the like, and that includes agriculture in that. Pension schemes are reformed, to make them sustainable, and affordable, and there's no option, everyone has to be in some form of pension scheme, regardless of who they are employed by.

For PRSI, there are 2 rates, employer and employee, if you are employed, you pay, if you are an employer, you pay for every employee. The self employed pay the employers AND the employees rate, with the quid pro quo that they are entitled to EXACTLY the same benefits that are at present available to the PAYE sector, and at present denied to the self employed, including social welfare payments if their circumstances are such that they qualify, and other benefits like dental treatment and the like.

There will be no such thing as "special allowances", or similar pay enhancing fiddles that are only available to the select few, it's either available, or it's not, and if it's a benefit in kind, then it's taxable, regardless of the sector of employment.

Health. Way too much money is wasted keeping track of money spent in order to be able to reclaim it from private insurance companies, and there's way too much spent on promoting companies like VHI, and the other private insurers. Make Health free at the point of delivery, with a country wide scheme to fund it, which all have to participate in. The NEW heath service will have to have contracts that provide for 24/7 cover, and there will have to be rationalisations, in order to provide a better service to the people who need it. That may not mean closing some units, but it will mean changes in the services that some locations provide, and it will mean having things like air ambulance services to ensure that people from remote areas can be transported to the right major trauma centre when the need arises. We also need a national database for health services that's accessible to all health professionals that need access,

Many of the obscene number of quangos have to go, or be merged, and rationalised. We can't afford them, there are less than 5 million in this country, so we have to structure our services based on that figure, not have services that are beyond the requirement, or our ability to pay for them.

Constitutional changes are needed to protect essential state services, which are the electricity grid, and water grid, they have to have protection to ensure they cannot be privatised, or stealth privatised. Other semi states like CIE have to be fundamentally reformed, to bring them into line with modern practice.

Other constitutional issues. Politicians pay and any increase has to be approved at each election, as they have demonstrated that they can't be trusted to be responsible, and they are at present definitely NOT accountable to anyone other than themselves. Given the ways that they have abused the system, and the electorate, they have to accept that the people are the ones that have the final say.

We have to have a way to force the politicians to listen to specific issues, probably along the lines of having a requirement to hold a referendum on an issue that gets more than a defined percentage of support in a petition.

If we really want to get their attention, perhaps we should have another vote option on the ballot paper, which would be "none of the above", and if that figure is above a certain percentage nationwide, the whole election is void, and the parties have to put together a new manifesto until they get a valid poll

I'd really like to see a good and appropriate E-voting system that works, and is approved, to make it easy to deal with voting on referendum issues when they arise, and the voting stations could well be permanent stations that don't disrupt the schools and the like, so that they can be operated for the hours needed to allow as many as possible to vote. Online voting should also be possible, the technology to verify ID's is available, and this would make it far easier to get people to engage with the system. E-voting also has the advantage of getting rid of the grandstanding and expense of multiple counts, and all the other nonsense that goes on at too many counts. The Politicians will hate it, and some voters may not like the absolute speed and clinical finality without all the hype, but realistically, we do need to move on from pieces of paper and pencils, and all the other outdated systems around voting, and we definitely need to spend less on the process in future. E-Voting CAN be done, and can be secure, and can be put in place without massive costs, as long as it is done by people that know what they are doing, and with the right terms of reference in the first place. I've spent over 40 years working with IT, and I know what can, and cannot be done with the right people and equipment in place.

Dail reform. We still need an upper house, to act as a control and balance on the primary house, but that upper house has to be more representative, and not stuffed with cronies, or losers at the most recent election, or special interest groups like the university seats. It has to be more representative than how it is now.

Politicians. They have abused us and the system so badly, the whole expenses, allowances and other "special payments regime is gone, ended, and no longer appropriate. Things like special payments to losers of an election are an insult to every PAYE worker that's only received statutory redundancy when their company has closed or failed, especially when those closures or failures were as a direct result of government policy or mistakes. Giving failed politicians a special payment to reward failure is the worst insult possible to heap on top of all of the other insults that we've seen over the last few years.

Unvouched expenses are no longer acceptable and payments on top of salary for "attending" are not appropriate. That may mean that the basic salary needs to be looked at, but that does NOT mean hiking it into the stratosphere.

Party funding. It's the biggest obstacle to real change that we face, and it HAS to be reformed, and so does the insanity of sticking massive photographs of every candidate on every lamp post in the town every time there's an election. We need to make it easier for new parties to emerge and be recognised, and harder for the "old faithfuls" to dominate and manipulate the system in their favour.


Trade Unions. Not quite sure how to reform them, as my personal opinion is that too many of the people at the top of some of them can be tarred with exactly the same brush as the politicians and senior state service managers, they're in it for their own ends, and not the good of their electorate.

Controversial? You bet, in that if you're not controversial these days, no body pays any attention, and this is too big an issue to just let it slide.

Ireland belongs to the people, not to a local ruling class that have almost unseen and without protest taken over that position from the colonial rulers that used to be in control of the destiny of the country.

It's NOT theirs by right, or by default, and those same detached and isolated people need to be told in no uncertain fashion that their excesses, corruption, cronyism, and nepotism are no longer acceptable and will no longer be tolerated.

twowheelsgood

DamagedTrax wrote: »

evil? fair enough if you believe any of those idiots have your well being in mind. i personally dont, so evil works just fine for me.

They may not. But that is not what evil is.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

treacherous? most definitely. if you dont believe that the public on large feels fukced over then you need to pay a little more attention to whats happening.

And that is not what treachery is.


Can you clarify, do you think FF should have rejected the Troika deal?

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The RNU in Dundalk are the main organisers of water protests. Only people know what sort of characters they are and meter installation continues locally without interruption. They have an inflated senses of their own importance.

Even when the government offers the pensioners money to buy chickens and turkeys they are not happy.

http://www.republicanunity.org/rnu-congratulate-people-of-dundalk-on-mass-protest-against-water-taxes/

Their response was to continue to insult the intelligence of the Irish people, by throwing crumbs at us under the guise of the recent budget. Their belief that reinstating a poultry Christmas bonus for Social welfare recipients would outweigh the introduction of this unfair and unjust tax

tayto lover wrote: »

You didn't retract that post where you deemed the majority of protesters in Dundalk as belonging to a republican group and suggesting that they read a statement from the podium. Be a man now DX.

Read it again. You appear to have gotten the wrong end of the stick. My comment was about RNU activists interfering with meter installers. Nothing about who was on the march or who said what on the podium.

I did put up the link where RNU were very quick off the mark to congratulate the people of Dundalk for turning out to march. What is wrong with that?

mfceiling

twowheelsgood wrote: »

I think people don't give a toss about cronyism if the economy is going well. It didn't bother us in the slightest what FF were getting up to while the tiger was roaring. We only got all troubled about ethics with the economy tanked.

Same with FG. If there was no need to impose additional austere measures a lot of the stuff that is going on in their ranks would only attract criticism from a minority.

I did...and i used to have some fair old rows with co-workers about Bertie "i can't say no" Aherne when he was in power.

I voted FG in the last general election because i was sick to the teeth of FF and their nudge nudge wink wink politics and the culture of "get paddy a job, sure isn't he a friend of the party". I truly believed Enda Kenny when he said that cronyism wasn't for FG and he would stamp it out and get rid of poorly performing ministers.

Plus ca change...

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Read it again. You appear to have gotten the wrong end of the stick. My comment was about RNU activists interfering with meter installers. Nothing about who was on the march or who said what on the podium.

I did put up the link where RNU were very quick off the mark to congratulate the people of Dundalk for turning out to march. What is wrong with that?

Timing.
It was included in the posts at the time posters were discussing the turn-out after the protests on Saturday and was designed, in my opinion, to sully the Dundalk march, otherwise you would have clarified at the time. That's what was wrong with it. It took you a long time to come up with that post tonight.

DamagedTrax

twowheelsgood wrote: »

They may not. But that is not what evil is.

evil: profoundly immoral and wicked

if they're lining their own pockets with no care for the people (other than those that prop their lifestyles), then yes they are very much evil.

And that is not what treachery is.

a betrayal of trust? how have they not betrayed our trust to run our country in a way that is geared towards the safety of the citizen, and not towards the profit of business? thats what they've done, its treachery.

Can you clarify, do you think FF should have rejected the Troika deal?

because of the complete lack of transparency i could never answer that question truthfully. maybe 'the letter' will clear things up for me.

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

Timing.
It was included in the posts at the time posters were discussing the turn-out after the protests on Saturday and was designed, in my opinion, to sully the Dundalk march, otherwise you would have clarified at the time. That's what was wrong with it. It took you a long time to come up with that post tonight.

ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED POST HERE. I can't be held responsible if people choose to jump to conclusions. I couldn't be bothered answering you before because I knew you were completely on the wrong track, but you eventually badgered me into it.

In Lonesome Dove

Irish Steve wrote: »

Well, that was boring. Just spent way too long reading all of the entries for today, and there's so little real original thought or ideas here, it's even more depressing.

I suspect that very few will be prepared to accept that this might work, and in some ways, it's diverting from the very real issue which is that IW as presently structured cannot proceed, if it's sorted, then IW HAS to proceed, if for no other reason than to get the sleeveen politicians out of the direct loop in order to ensure that water and waste water is properly and adequately funded, rather than the funds being diverted to some local vote winning scheme that is visible and has a short term payback in terms of votes.

So , how do we start to sort the many and wider issues in the longer term.

Bring back the Troika/IMF, but instead of bailing out the bankers, and the multinationals, how about we address the massive budget deficit that's down to the profligate spending of the Governments of the last 25 or so years?

So, the first thing that needs to happen is that the IMF/Troika carry out an in depth review of the state and semi state services, in terms of what they are really doing, how they are doing it, and the resources they need to do it, and the validity of them continuing to do it.

Then having done that, they deal with the waste, and please, let's be honest here, while there has been some tinkering around the edges, there are still massive problems with the State sector, and the way it operates. Close down ALL the state and semi state services, (not all at the same time) and re employ the people that they need to run them, NOT all the present employees that are there regardless of if they are needed or not, or if they can actually do the job or not, and employ them on new contracts that don't have all the perks, special allowances and every other unacceptable practice that has been put into place over the last 30 years.

Oh, and by the way, the multiple platinum plated inflation proofed pensions that were never paid for or justified are also gone, especially for the people that were deepest into the trough, on the basis that there's no money there to pay for them any more, so the people that are freeloading at the very top might actually have to live on state pension, like the people they were (supposedly) representing. Harsh? Maybe, but in some cases, totally deserved in terms of the corruption, nepotism and cronyism that brought it about, None of us voted for it, why should we now be forced to pay for it?

The people that are not needed by the new state services either retire on "standard" pensions, or get Social Welfare, just like anyone else, It's no different to exactly what was forced on to huge numbers of people in the private sector by the errors and worse of the previous administrations. Huge numbers of people have lost their savings, their pensions, and their pension pot that was in the value of their property as a result of the actions of the political elite, so they now need to share in the pain that they have inflicted on the people they were representing so badly.


For the future, the differentiation between state services and private companies and the self employed all go, especially all the special PRSI rate variances, that's gone, as are all the other different rates of tax, and the like, and that includes agriculture in that. Pension schemes are reformed, to make them sustainable, and affordable, and there's no option, everyone has to be in some form of pension scheme, regardless of who they are employed by.

For PRSI, there are 2 rates, employer and employee, if you are employed, you pay, if you are an employer, you pay for every employee. The self employed pay the employers AND the employees rate, with the quid pro quo that they are entitled to EXACTLY the same benefits that are at present available to the PAYE sector, and at present denied to the self employed, including social welfare payments if their circumstances are such that they qualify, and other benefits like dental treatment and the like.

There will be no such thing as "special allowances", or similar pay enhancing fiddles that are only available to the select few, it's either available, or it's not, and if it's a benefit in kind, then it's taxable, regardless of the sector of employment.

Health. Way too much money is wasted keeping track of money spent in order to be able to reclaim it from private insurance companies, and there's way too much spent on promoting companies like VHI, and the other private insurers. Make Health free at the point of delivery, with a country wide scheme to fund it, which all have to participate in. The NEW heath service will have to have contracts that provide for 24/7 cover, and there will have to be rationalisations, in order to provide a better service to the people who need it. That may not mean closing some units, but it will mean changes in the services that some locations provide, and it will mean having things like air ambulance services to ensure that people from remote areas can be transported to the right major trauma centre when the need arises. We also need a national database for health services that's accessible to all health professionals that need access,

Many of the obscene number of quangos have to go, or be merged, and rationalised. We can't afford them, there are less than 5 million in this country, so we have to structure our services based on that figure, not have services that are beyond the requirement, or our ability to pay for them.

Constitutional changes are needed to protect essential state services, which are the electricity grid, and water grid, they have to have protection to ensure they cannot be privatised, or stealth privatised. Other semi states like CIE have to be fundamentally reformed, to bring them into line with modern practice.

Other constitutional issues. Politicians pay and any increase has to be approved at each election, as they have demonstrated that they can't be trusted to be responsible, and they are at present definitely NOT accountable to anyone other than themselves. Given the ways that they have abused the system, and the electorate, they have to accept that the people are the ones that have the final say.

We have to have a way to force the politicians to listen to specific issues, probably along the lines of having a requirement to hold a referendum on an issue that gets more than a defined percentage of support in a petition.

If we really want to get their attention, perhaps we should have another vote option on the ballot paper, which would be "none of the above", and if that figure is above a certain percentage nationwide, the whole election is void, and the parties have to put together a new manifesto until they get a valid poll

I'd really like to see a good and appropriate E-voting system that works, and is approved, to make it easy to deal with voting on referendum issues when they arise, and the voting stations could well be permanent stations that don't disrupt the schools and the like, so that they can be operated for the hours needed to allow as many as possible to vote. Online voting should also be possible, the technology to verify ID's is available, and this would make it far easier to get people to engage with the system. E-voting also has the advantage of getting rid of the grandstanding and expense of multiple counts, and all the other nonsense that goes on at too many counts. The Politicians will hate it, and some voters may not like the absolute speed and clinical finality without all the hype, but realistically, we do need to move on from pieces of paper and pencils, and all the other outdated systems around voting, and we definitely need to spend less on the process in future. E-Voting CAN be done, and can be secure, and can be put in place without massive costs, as long as it is done by people that know what they are doing, and with the right terms of reference in the first place. I've spent over 40 years working with IT, and I know what can, and cannot be done with the right people and equipment in place.

Dail reform. We still need an upper house, to act as a control and balance on the primary house, but that upper house has to be more representative, and not stuffed with cronies, or losers at the most recent election, or special interest groups like the university seats. It has to be more representative than how it is now.

Politicians. They have abused us and the system so badly, the whole expenses, allowances and other "special payments regime is gone, ended, and no longer appropriate. Things like special payments to losers of an election are an insult to every PAYE worker that's only received statutory redundancy when their company has closed or failed, especially when those closures or failures were as a direct result of government policy or mistakes. Giving failed politicians a special payment to reward failure is the worst insult possible to heap on top of all of the other insults that we've seen over the last few years.

Unvouched expenses are no longer acceptable and payments on top of salary for "attending" are not appropriate. That may mean that the basic salary needs to be looked at, but that does NOT mean hiking it into the stratosphere.

Party funding. It's the biggest obstacle to real change that we face, and it HAS to be reformed, and so does the insanity of sticking massive photographs of every candidate on every lamp post in the town every time there's an election. We need to make it easier for new parties to emerge and be recognised, and harder for the "old faithfuls" to dominate and manipulate the system in their favour.


Trade Unions. Not quite sure how to reform them, as my personal opinion is that too many of the people at the top of some of them can be tarred with exactly the same brush as the politicians and senior state service managers, they're in it for their own ends, and not the good of their electorate.

Controversial? You bet, in that if you're not controversial these days, no body pays any attention, and this is too big an issue to just let it slide.

Ireland belongs to the people, not to a local ruling class that have almost unseen and without protest taken over that position from the colonial rulers that used to be in control of the destiny of the country.

It's NOT theirs by right, or by default, and those same detached and isolated people need to be told in no uncertain fashion that their excesses, corruption, cronyism, and nepotism are no longer acceptable and will no longer be tolerated.

I would agree with much of this except for one that I would feel very strongly about that being the issue on pensions. I don't want to be old. I would much prefer euthanasia to be legalised and I will decide myself when I die. I don't want to be old and frail and weak and useless - ever. For that reason hell will freeze over before I pay into a pension pot. I'm never going to draw on one. I'll be dead by the time I'm 70.

gladrags

dxhound2005 wrote: »

ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED POST HERE. I can't be held responsible if people choose to jump to conclusions. I couldn't be bothered answering you before because I knew you were completely on the wrong track, but you eventually badgered me into it.

As if you don't badger and jump to conclusions.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED POST HERE. I can't be held responsible if people choose to jump to conclusions. I couldn't be bothered answering you before because I knew you were completely on the wrong track, but you eventually badgered me into it.

As I said timing. Took you a long time to think up an excuse.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Is everyone watching Primetime? 24hr vigilante style surveillance going on in some areas against and blocking Irish Water installations.

The workers are claiming they've been spat at, shouted at, intimated, driven at, blocked in, etc.

Creative Juices

nm wrote: »

Is everyone watching Primetime? 24hr vigilante style surveillance going on in some areas against and blocking Irish Water installations.

The workers are claiming they've been spat at, shouted at, intimated, driven at, blocked in, etc.

That is very wrong in anyone's book but I would well believe it.

the groutch

nm wrote: »

Is everyone watching Primetime? 24hr vigilante style surveillance going on in some areas against and blocking Irish Water installations.

The workers are claiming they've been spat at, shouted at, intimated, driven at, blocked in, etc.

most of those don't even live in or near the estates in question, and give the locals a bad name.

Irish Steve

wow, that was really inspiring and enlighteningNOT

The details about the protestors blocking meter installs was nothing new, and the 2 politicians they dragged into the studio didn't exactly add anything even remotely new or helpful to the argument, when they weren't trying to shout each other down, which doesn't make for interesting or helpful TV viewing.

The figures about water charges across Europe were actually helpful, in that I've been looking for up to date accurate information, and it's been hard to find any that's been recent. Having seen the figures, that's some help, but it doesn't address the underlying issues of the suitability of IW as an organisation to be responsible for the day to day running of Water and waste water.

RTE were asking "Where's Tierney"? The more important, and urgent questions, "Where's Enda"? He's very conspicuous by his absence from main line media, and by his silence, and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that if FG want have any chance of getting re elected, they have no choice other than to clean house before that election, and put some people into place that will be capable of commanding public respect for their policies.

Prime Time didn't do a lot to help the situation, given how serious it clearly is.

nxbyveromdwjpg

the groutch wrote: »

most of those don't even live in or near the estates in question, and give the locals a bad name.

If its accurate then they certainly do give the locals a bad name.

As for not living there, that was exactly what they said. If they see the IW vans coming into one area, they call the back up squads from the other areas over to join them so they can all have a go at them. That's the modus operandi, not something that's hidden.

If even half of that report is to be believed then it's no wonder the Gardai have to be there.

_Kaiser_

Irish Steve wrote: »

RTE were asking "Where's Tierney"? The more important, and urgent questions, "Where's Enda"? He's very conspicuous by his absence from main line media, and by his silence, and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that if FG want have any chance of getting re elected, they have no choice other than to clean house before that election, and put some people into place that will be capable of commanding public respect for their policies

Kenny always goes missing at times like this.. his handlers are no doubt terrified of what he might come out with when not safely behind a closed door or hurling childish barbs at the opposition in the playground we call our national parliament.

FG won't see a 2nd term though - by the looks of it this mess will drag on into the first half of 2015, FG/LAB will stage a real giveaway budget in October, and they'll be relying on people getting euphoric over that and the 2016 celebrations to carry them but I can't see it. The much vaunted "recovery" has yet to be felt by most people and the Germans are under pressure now in their own domestic economy which has led to a wider EU recovery petering out already.

We'll be back to where we were in 2011 with an "anyone but the current shower" mindset - EXCEPT with anger against FF still very real (and deservedly so), the question will be where electorate goes next...

tayto lover

nm wrote: »

If its accurate then they certainly do give the locals a bad name.

As for not living there, that was exactly what they said. If they see the IW vans coming into one area, they call the back up squads from the other areas over to join them so they can all have a go at them. That's the modus operandi, not something that's hidden.

If even half of that report is to be believed then it's no wonder the Gardai have to be there.

They have no need to do that at all.
Just don't pay and go on marches.
Violence never solves anything.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

_Kaiser_

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I agree.. and that's the real danger. Despite polls on sites like TheJournal, SF will get nowhere near enough at the ballot box as people remember that they'd be worse again/the history etc.

What does that leave.. lefty extremists, one-issue Independents, and "new" parties stuffed with FF/FG castoffs.

Irish "democracy" has a real problem looming and no-one seems to be talking about it.

Irish Steve

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I agree.. and that's the real danger. Despite polls on sites like TheJournal, SF will get nowhere near enough at the ballot box as people remember that they'd be worse again/the history etc.

What does that leave.. lefty extremists, one-issue Independents, and "new" parties stuffed with FF/FG castoffs.

Irish "democracy" has a real problem looming and no-one seems to be talking about it.

Indeed, I've tried a couple of times to raise exactly this issue in this thread but there's not many people wanting to get that engaged, the more I think about it, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that the majority of voters are happy to have an Irish "master" class running things, (and that they can then blame when things go wrong) that "master" class having replaced the "colonial" master class that was running things before independence.

Irish Steve

Irish Steve wrote: »

Indeed, I've tried a couple of times to raise exactly this issue in this thread but there's not many people wanting to get that engaged, the more I think about it, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that the majority of voters are happy to have an Irish "master" class running things, (and that they can then blame when things go wrong) that "master" class having replaced the "colonial" master class that was running things before independence.

I'm waiting for you to join the election campaign. I'll vote for ya!

gladrags

Irish Steve wrote: »

wow, that was really inspiring and enlighteningNOT

The details about the protestors blocking meter installs was nothing new, and the 2 politicians they dragged into the studio didn't exactly add anything even remotely new or helpful to the argument, when they weren't trying to shout each other down, which doesn't make for interesting or helpful TV viewing.

The figures about water charges across Europe were actually helpful, in that I've been looking for up to date accurate information, and it's been hard to find any that's been recent. Having seen the figures, that's some help, but it doesn't address the underlying issues of the suitability of IW as an organisation to be responsible for the day to day running of Water and waste water.

RTE were asking "Where's Tierney"? The more important, and urgent questions, "Where's Enda"? He's very conspicuous by his absence from main line media, and by his silence, and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that if FG want have any chance of getting re elected, they have no choice other than to clean house before that election, and put some people into place that will be capable of commanding public respect for their policies.

Prime Time didn't do a lot to help the situation, given how serious it clearly is.

Kenny won't go on TV,he rarely does for obvious reasons.

I have noticed that it is becoming inccreasingly difficult to make out who's who.

There are now so many options and resolutions proposed,by an increasing numbers by politicians,commentators,
members of the public,etc.

Communication overload.

Still, some of the comments on here are well informed.

If you are anti-water charge that is.

cruais

Enda, would you ask the Spanish to pay for sun?

Irish Steve

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I'm waiting for you to join the election campaign. I'll vote for ya!

I'm under no illusions that standing for election would be a forlorn option, given the strength and power of the existing parties, there's no way I could afford to put posters on our street, let along across half or more of the constituency, which seems to be one of the fundamental requirements to getting elected,

Bertie's shenanigans and the subsequent hit on the little work I had means that my reserves don't exist any more, and there's very little encouragement available for independents, and right now, there's not a party that I'd want to be associated with, FF are still toxic, FG are only FF in Blue, Labour are............well, I'm not sure what Labour are right now, and SF, No thanks. that's not my cup of tea, for any number of valid reasons.

The minor left wing parties would not be comfortable partners, which leaves me very much out in the cold and bereft of anywhere to hang my hat. a problem that I suspect may be common to a lot of other existing politicians unless things change pretty significantly over the next 12 months or so.

The other thing that would go against me is that at 64 next year, I'm the wrong demographic to appeal to most of the voters of Meath East, if recent elections are anything to go by.

Depressing really, Ireland could be so much better if the people running it were actually in tune with the electorate, and the majority was actually working together and in agreement..

suicide_circus

cruais wrote: »

Enda, would you ask the Spanish to pay for sun?

No because the Spanish government don't clean, store and pipe the sun into people's homes

Or are you referring to solar?

cruais

suicide_circus wrote: »

No because the Spanish government don't clean, store and pipe the sun into people's homes

Or are you referring to solar?

Its a joke...or do we run the risk of paying a humour tax now?

Iwasfrozen

cruais wrote: »

Its a joke...or do we run the risk of paying a humour tax now?

http://i.imgur.com/yRVPd.png

suicide_circus

cruais wrote: »

Its a joke...or do we run the risk of paying a humour tax now?

You would certainly be exempt

cruais

suicide_circus wrote: »

You would certainly be exempt

Thank goodness for that! Could do with the extra money in my hard earned pocket.