***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Irish Steve

cruais wrote: »

Its a joke...or do we run the risk of paying a humour tax now?

Don't even joke about it.

There was a time when some "thinking" politician decided that there would be a tax on windows, and I wouldn't put it past some politicians to try and tax sunlight, or humour.

If they did, I think that the best response would be a complete and total sense of humour failure.

Red Pepper

I got talking to someone who's private company provided consultancy on the setup of Irish Water. He said they made the same mistakes as the Health Boards and HSE - when they amalgamated the health boards there should have been "efficiency layoffs" but the unions won out and the HSE was left with a bloated bureaucracy. This in turn led to hugely complicated systems and processes with zero value add roles being created to keep back office people "busy". The same has happened in Irish Water with too many people transferred from local authorities to Irish Water creating a logistical and bureaucratic mess for a newly setup utility. He also said the people transferred often had the wrong skillsets and were a little "shy of hard work". They wanted and needed good project managers, asset managers, engineers, PR people and environmental science types but that did not materialise initially. He said they are now scrambling to hire sufficiently qualified people from private industry.

Caliden

The bribery intensifies.

Now trying to get families to stop protesting by threatening the children allowance while offering the alternative of an increased cap.


It's clear as day that they know of the **** storm ahead. I just hope that any families protesting aren't short sighted and think of their children's future.

geeksauce

nm wrote: »

Is everyone watching Primetime? 24hr vigilante style surveillance going on in some areas against and blocking Irish Water installations.

The workers are claiming they've been spat at, shouted at, intimated, driven at, blocked in, etc.

Saw it for a couple of minutes last night about 11, who was your one on it in the studio. The lady with the short red hair who was anti water charges, I thought she was completely useless, great at dodging questions yes but completely and utterly useless at answering any questions directed to her.

The couple of minutes I saw of it she was asked 'the price of providing water per year is €1billion, you want to scrap water charges so how do you intend to fund the provision of the water services'

Her answer was something along the lines of 'well at the last by-election the AAA did quite well' Seriously though how in the hell does anyone listen to the likes of her and think she talks sense, wants to abolish water charges yet cant explain how the provision of water services will be funded once the charges are abolished, ridiculous.

The other chap on it then makes a point of saying that it is intended to invest €1billion per year for 10 years on repairing and upgrading the water system. She interrupts him and says 'sure you spent €500 million on installing water meters, so why didn't you use that money to fix the broken infrastructure'.............

Why you fcuking idiot? Well because it is going to cost €10billion to fix it so using that money still leaves it short by about €9.5billion, but of course there is no point asking you how this will be funded as you will no doubt start talking about some recent by-election.

yipeeeee

geeksauce wrote: »

Saw it for a couple of minutes last night about 11, who was your one on it in the studio. The lady with the short red hair who was anti water charges, I thought she was completely useless, great at dodging questions yes but completely and utterly useless at answering any questions directed to her.

The couple of minutes I saw of it she was asked 'the price of providing water per year is €1billion, you want to scrap water charges so how do you intend to fund the provision of the water services'

Her answer was something along the lines of 'well at the last by-election the AAA did quite well' Seriously though how in the hell does anyone listen to the likes of her and think she talks sense, wants to abolish water charges yet cant explain how the provision of water services will be funded once the charges are abolished, ridiculous.

The other chap on it then makes a point of saying that it is intended to invest €1billion per year for 10 years on repairing and upgrading the water system. She interrupts him and says 'sure you spent €500 million on installing water meters, so why didn't you use that money to fix the broken infrastructure'.............

Why you fcuking idiot? Well because it is going to cost €10billion to fix it so using that money still leaves it short by about €9.5billion, but of course there is no point asking you how this will be funded as you will no doubt start talking about some recent by-election.

Her answer and just like sinn feins answer was, tax the wealthy rabble rabble.

Which just means middle income get hit again and pick up the burden.

Exactly what sinn fein will do if they get in.

Populist bull****.

Of course a load of people will swallow it.

geeksauce

yipeeeee wrote: »

Her answer and just like sinn feins answer was, tax the wealthy rabble rabble.

Which just means middle income get hit again and pick up the burden.

Exactly what sinn fein will do if they get in.

Populist bull****.

Of course a load of people will swallow it.

That is it exactly, populist bull**** is spot on, people seem to genuinely believe whatever the opposition politicians tell them and then continue to act surprised when they don't live up to their pre-election promises.

The whole aim of a politician (any politician) is to get elected, so the easiest way to do that is to see what item the public are passionate about, i.e. water charges at the minute and side with the majority in order to get elected.

I would have loved to hear how exactly she intended to fund the provision of water services as well as repairing the system in place at the minute, unfortunately her knowledge of the subject didn't seem to extend beyond, 'the public think water charges are bad, so if I say water charges are bad they will elect me'

Little CuChulainn

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Kenny always goes missing at times like this.. his handlers are no doubt terrified of what he might come out with when not safely behind a closed door or hurling childish barbs at the opposition in the playground we call our national parliament.

FG won't see a 2nd term though - by the looks of it this mess will drag on into the first half of 2015, FG/LAB will stage a real giveaway budget in October, and they'll be relying on people getting euphoric over that and the 2016 celebrations to carry them but I can't see it. The much vaunted "recovery" has yet to be felt by most people and the Germans are under pressure now in their own domestic economy which has led to a wider EU recovery petering out already.

We'll be back to where we were in 2011 with an "anyone but the current shower" mindset - EXCEPT with anger against FF still very real (and deservedly so), the question will be where electorate goes next...

If there's one thing I think everyone can agree on it's that Enda is the weakest leader our country has ever had, with the possible exception of the time he stuck it to the church in a speech.

Red Pepper

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If there's one thing I think everyone can agree on it's that Enda is the weakest leader our country has ever had, with the possible exception of the time he stuck it to the church in a speech.

+1...it was a great speech and exactly what the church needed but he has done nothing else and his leadership has been dire.

Larbre34

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If there's one thing I think everyone can agree on it's that Enda is the weakest leader our country has ever had, with the possible exception of the time he stuck it to the church in a speech.

No, in fairness, Cowen turned out to be the weakest by a distance, couldn't cope at all.

Kenny is not a stupid person, and is by all accounts a hard worker and was very astute and savage around the events of the heave against him. I just don't think he is particularly savvy, spontaneous or reactive and rewarding goons like Phil Hogan and James Reilly for loyalty and seeing the results of the calamities they brought about have permanently scarred him. What he says domestically carries no influence.

yipeeeee

Property tax letters have started arriving through doors.

This should be good!!

oceanman

Even leaving apart the 'farce' that is irish water, Enda has been embroiled in one controversy after another in recent times, how long will it be before his own party members starts to see him as a liability ?

Banjo String

yipeeeee wrote: »

Property tax letters have started arriving through doors.

This should be good!!

Ah but you see the Govt didn't envisage this shıtstorm. They thought paddy would meekly roll over.

Barely There

geeksauce wrote: »

I would have loved to hear how exactly she intended to fund the provision of water services as well as repairing the system in place at the minute, unfortunately her knowledge of the subject didn't seem to extend beyond, 'the public think water charges are bad, so if I say water charges are bad they will elect me'

And it works.
For evidence see Murphy, Paul TD - a complete economically illiterate lunatic who has won a seat just by being anti- water charges.

A politician who was actually honest about the policies they would adopt once elected would most likely get destroyed at the polls.

We end up with the politicians we deserve.

fxotoole

Red Pepper wrote: »

I got talking to someone who's private company provided consultancy on the setup of Irish Water. He said they made the same mistakes as the Health Boards and HSE - when they amalgamated the health boards there should have been "efficiency layoffs" but the unions won out and the HSE was left with a bloated bureaucracy. This in turn led to hugely complicated systems and processes with zero value add roles being created to keep back office people "busy". The same has happened in Irish Water with too many people transferred from local authorities to Irish Water creating a logistical and bureaucratic mess for a newly setup utility. He also said the people transferred often had the wrong skillsets and were a little "shy of hard work". They wanted and needed good project managers, asset managers, engineers, PR people and environmental science types but that did not materialise initially. He said they are now scrambling to hire sufficiently qualified people from private industry.

Sure if it was privatised from the get-go it would have been much more efficient, but then the anti-water charges brigade would have been moaning about privatisation, profiteering, and the government selling off the family jewels to capitalists. Can't have it both ways, lads.

_Kaiser_

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If there's one thing I think everyone can agree on it's that Enda is the weakest leader our country has ever had, with the possible exception of the time he stuck it to the church in a speech.

Red Pepper wrote: »

+1...it was a great speech and exactly what the church needed but he has done nothing else and his leadership has been dire.

But did the Church not tell them to feck off when it came to the compensation for the victims in the end?

In other words, Kenny talked a good game but failed to deliver - where have we seen that before!

_Kaiser_

Larbre34 wrote: »

No, in fairness, Cowen turned out to be the weakest by a distance, couldn't cope at all.

I dunno. Cowen was useless yes, but he was thrown under the bus to save Bertie when the economy fell apart. That's not to excuse such outrageous carry-on as going on radio "tired and emotional", but Kenny came in fresh promising reform, transparency and a new approach to the crisis - which were promptly forgotten about as soon as he got into power and his government have continued the same policies as their predecessors - with added arrogance and cronyism.

To me that makes him worse (which is no mean feat considering what went before) - especially as 3 years later he is still blaming FF

Kenny is not a stupid person, and is by all accounts a hard worker and was very astute and savage around the events of the heave against him. I just don't think he is particularly savvy, spontaneous or reactive and rewarding goons like Phil Hogan and James Reilly for loyalty and seeing the results of the calamities they brought about have permanently scarred him. What he says domestically carries no influence.

I've no idea whether Kenny is stupid or not as I've never met the man so all I can do is go on his record and in my opinion he's achieved nothing of note since getting into power except become the EU's poster boy for austerity.

Domestically he's been a disaster.. refusing to debate or answer questions in the arrogant belief that he doesn't have to perhaps - or maybe because his handlers don't trust him unscripted. Either way I reckon it cost him his pet Seanad abolition referendum by sending Bruton out instead. Coming on TV and lecturing us like schoolchildren about how (paraphrasing) "it's not your fault but you will pay your bills" while he and his cohorts continue to piss OUR money away and help themselves hasn't helped his case either.

Rather than reform, he and his government have been as bad if not worse than FF. Reilly barely had his feet under the desk before meddling with Primary Care locations to add his own constituency, we all know about the Shatter/Callinan debacle, and Hogan.. well, Hogan doesn't seem to be able to open his mouth without causing a mess.

And to bring this back on topic, let's not forget that rather than abolishing quangos as was promised, he's in fact created another HSE in IW.

Lucy and Harry

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If there's one thing I think everyone can agree on it's that Enda is the weakest leader our country has ever had, with the possible exception of the time he stuck it to the church in a speech.

1 st post you have made I agree with.:p


Why do some people here have such hatred for protesters?Only 25% agree with this tax according to our little internet poll at the top.I would assume not many agree with the house charge Kenny himself said would be ''immoral'' yet did it anyway.So if we all agree that we have had lots of cash taken from us to pay back banks etc and people have suffered in this country then why is this last straw that broke the peoples backs of IW not supported by every body here.Yes we all have to do our bit to pay back the banks after Cowen said we would but why are we the people turning on each other in this thread??People have a right to protest if they do not have the cash!!People have left this country as they could not get work!!People have to pay for bins to be collected even though our tax used to do that..House charges and water charges and bin charges and less take home pay and the cost of living is so high people are struggling.I have empathy for these people.And when I see people saying our fellow citizens should drink rain water etc it is disgusting to see.I do however think it is wrong to block meter workers and fight with Gardai etc and I do not like people who abuse the system but I feel most protesters are good peoploe many have jobs and some are retired.From all walks of life who are sick of recession and the fact our leaders have not got much better and still we have no leaders we can trust who are accountable for their actions.

Cuttlefish

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If there's one thing I think everyone can agree on it's that Enda is the weakest leader our country has ever had, with the possible exception of the time he stuck it to the church in a speech.

I think you can include the previous leader as well... whose name escapes me

Lucy and Harry

I actually voted for Kenny.lol when he said he would bring transparency and accountability after FF I believed him.
I even liked Burton when she was kicking ass in opposition but when they get into power they change.Guess its easy to be the party not in power slagging off things.That is why the Shinners are doing well in Polls.But I still think they and independents deserve a shot at things.Shinners would keep FG on their toes if they shared power as Labour who I believed would do that job have not.

And to bring this back on topic, let's not forget that rather than abolishing quangos as was promised, he's in fact created another HSE in IW.

Agreed.IW has been a disaster so far.

allibastor

Prime time was funny last night.

The Lad from the government was such a rubbish choice to put on the show it wasn't funny, he even said himself we are getting taxed twice for this service!!1

yipeeeee

yipeeeee wrote: »

Property tax letters have started arriving through doors.

This should be good!!

got mine last week - sick and stressed since.
I used to have a job and struggled then to pay bills. Now we have more bills and taxes than ever and less money - I'm now on a CE Scheme earning 208euro a week - I don't know where I'm meant to get the money

Cuttlefish

geeksauce wrote: »

That is it exactly, populist bull**** is spot on, people seem to genuinely believe whatever the opposition politicians tell them and then continue to act surprised when they don't live up to their pre-election promises.

The whole aim of a politician (any politician) is to get elected, so the easiest way to do that is to see what item the public are passionate about, i.e. water charges at the minute and side with the majority in order to get elected.

I would have loved to hear how exactly she intended to fund the provision of water services as well as repairing the system in place at the minute, unfortunately her knowledge of the subject didn't seem to extend beyond, 'the public think water charges are bad, so if I say water charges are bad they will elect me'

If you watched Prime Time last night you would have heard what people are saying and it is quite simple....

Enough is enough

Is that very hard to comprehend?

USC - crippling
LPT - Hitting people hard

Water Charges - the final straw for most people


You agree in your statement above that promises were broken by FG and Lab and I am talking in general terms here not about Water charges in particular.

You can say the same about labour and their election chant.... "Labours way or Frankfurts ways"

Barely There

Cuttlefish wrote: »

If you watched Prime Time last night you would have heard what people are saying and it is quite simple....

Enough is enough

Is that very hard to comprehend?

Apparently if you shout 'Enough is Enough' really, really loudly, it substantially reduces our budget deficit, increases capital spending on infrastructure and reduces taxes and charges on workers.

Not really sure why we haven't been trying this policy before now.

Stupid politicians again I suppose.

Lucy and Harry

A citizen being raped by the IMF and IW and FG has a right to shout 'enough is enough and no' or do you think we should all lie down and think of England.

Barely There

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

A citizen being raped by the IMF and IW and FG has a right to shout 'enough is enough and no' or do you think we should all lie down and think of England.

Some people are just more comfortable dealing in soundbite politics and solutions to pretty complex issues.
So please, shout out whatever makes you happy - you have that right, and it helps the rest of us easily identify those worth listening to and those worth ignoring.

geeksauce

Cuttlefish wrote: »

If you watched Prime Time last night you would have heard what people are saying and it is quite simple....

Enough is enough

Is that very hard to comprehend?

USC - crippling
LPT - Hitting people hard

Water Charges - the final straw for most people


You agree in your statement above that promises were broken by FG and Lab and I am talking in general terms here not about Water charges in particular.

You can say the same about labour and their election chant.... "Labours way or Frankfurts ways"

Yes all politicians lie, its how they get elected, yet the electorate seem to think that things will be different if we elect a different politician next time.

The couple of minutes I saw of Prime Time were when your one with the red hair, probably a member of the AAA or PBP was dodging questions. It's all well and good saying the goal is to abolish water charges yet having absolutely no idea about how you will fund the provision of water services as well as repair the existing infrastructure doesn't really cut it imo.

Lucy and Harry

Barely There wrote: »

Some people are just more comfortable dealing in soundbite politics and solutions to pretty complex issues.
So please, shout out whatever makes you happy - you have that right, and it helps the rest of us easily identify those worth listening to and those worth ignoring.

You are saying only people that agree with you are worth listening to.How arrogant.You do know most people are anti IW and this tax don't you or have you not been listening.Over 70 % have not returned water application forms.You are the minority we the majority.Deal with it.
Most people do not want this tax as we cant take the burden.We will vote this out.FG and IW will go by the power of the democratic voting process.
1PM Dec 10th is the next protest.Power to the people.

cletus van damme

geeksauce wrote: »

Yes all politicians lie, its how they get elected, yet the electorate seem to think that things will be different if we elect a different politician next time.

The couple of minutes I saw of Prime Time were when your one with the red hair, probably a member of the AAA or PBP was dodging questions. It's all well and good saying the goal is to abolish water charges yet having absolutely no idea about how you will fund the provision of water services as well as repair the existing infrastructure doesn't really cut it imo.

you seem to think this is the only way.

how about they stop taxing and allow people to spend?
This will lead to more tax take and probably more jobs meaning less welfare.

noonan admitted he needed more money and just threw 2% onto the VAT to get the magic number.
It's such a thick arsed way to go about things.

Why not be brave and slash it to 15% ?
We already see the benefit of VAT reduction in the hospitality sector.

This government is taxing us to the hilt and we are seeing nothing in return.
This tax is to pay for the banks and a bloated public sector - the irony is that we get little service for this - the only really competant department is the revenue....:rolleyes:
as for the banks , we all know the craic with that and how the irish citizens carried that can .
This is the breaking point and enough is enough


I'm against water charges for moral reasons but i'm also pragmatic . If I saw service I'd happily pay for it. But this is not about water it's about more tax for the government.

But how do we know any water charges will pay for the upkeep of the water system? we were told the LPT was to be spent on local services and how did that pan out?
yeah.

Barely There

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

You are saying only people that agree with you are worth listening to.

No, I'm saying that you aren't worth listening to.

Cantona's Collars

I was listening to one of the experts on our economics yesterday evening on Matt Cooper,we actually don't need IW & will get along just fine without collecting money to pay for it.The figures don't add up,it seems like the setting up of IW is just another revenue raising exercise disguised as the provision of a service.
The water departments in the LA's could be simply divided into regions instead of counties,have about 10 regions divided up for the country instead of IW subcontracting the work to the existing ones.As it is,we have the case of The Emperors New Clothes,IW is the figurehead yet the old way of doing things goes on in the background.