***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Lucy and Harry

Barely There wrote: »

No, I'm saying that you aren't worth listening to.

why

I think this is funny

Tarzana2

Errr, has anyone else not yet received their pack in the post yet? We have tried, but nothing yet!

geeksauce

cletus van damme wrote: »

you seem to think this is the only way.

how about they stop taxing and allow people to spend?
This will lead to more tax take and probably more jobs meaning less welfare.

noonan admitted he needed more money and just threw 2% onto the VAT to get the magic number.
It's such a thick arsed way to go about things.

Why not be brave and slash it to 15% ?
We already see the benefit of VAT reduction in the hospitality sector.

This government is taxing us to the hilt and we are seeing nothing in return.
This tax is to pay for the banks and a bloated public sector - the irony is that we get little service for this - the only really competant department is the revenue....:rolleyes:
as for the banks , we all know the craic with that and how the irish citizens carried that can .
This is the breaking point and enough is enough


I'm against water charges for moral reasons but i'm also pragmatic . If I saw service I'd happily pay for it. But this is not about water it's about more tax for the government.

But how do we know any water charges will pay for the upkeep of the water system? we were told the LPT was to be spent on local services and how did that pan out?
yeah.

The point I was making was that if the AAA and PBP and the other ridiculous parties want to abolish water charges and want me to listen to them then they need to have some sort of plan as to how the provision of water services and repair of the water system will be paid for. They don't seem to have thought beyond abolishing the charges and that is why I for one cant listen to a word they say without lmao.

Even when they are directly asked how it will be funded they start talking about the recent by-election, which has absolutely nothing to do with the funding of water services. Imagine if they were elected and on day one in power they were handed a bill of €1billion for water provision and they started talking about a by-election in 2014 instead of actually paying the bill, because from what I have seen they don't seem capable of coming up with an actual feasible plan for the funding of water services.

emo72

Barely There wrote: »

No, I'm saying that you aren't worth listening to.

Ah mate, that's just mean. I would never say that to anyone.

Lucy and Harry

Paying 600 million to put water meters in could have gone to help fix leaks instead.We are already paying and have always done for our water in our tax.The cash IW want for their bonuses would be saved if we said F off to IW.We are giving them cash and we do not need to.There is no proof IW will not go private either and we will be paying more and more and being sponged off.Too many mistakes so far by FG and IW or the people to have trust.
There is no guarantee IW will fix the 40% leaks there is no magic wand and no evidence that IW will magically fix every issue we have regarding leaks.And Irish people do not have the cash to pay IW anyhow as we have suffered enough already.You cant get blood from a stone.

papu

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Paying 600 million to put water meters in could have gone to help fix leaks instead.We are already paying and have always done for our water in our tax.The cash IW want for their bonuses would be saved if we said F off to IW.We are giving them cash and we do not need to.There is no proof IW will not go private either and we will be paying more and more and being sponged off.Too many mistakes so far by FG and IW or the people to have trust.
There is no guarantee IW will fix the 40% leaks there is no magic wand and no evidence that IW will magically fix every issue we have regarding leaks.And Irish people do not have the cash to pay IW anyhow as we have suffered enough already.You cant get blood from a stone.

You're selective vision is infuriating , you just keep re-arranging the same old stock lines.

geeksauce wrote: »

Saw it for a couple of minutes last night about 11, who was your one on it in the studio. The lady with the short red hair who was anti water charges, I thought she was completely useless, great at dodging questions yes but completely and utterly useless at answering any questions directed to her.

The couple of minutes I saw of it she was asked 'the price of providing water per year is €1billion, you want to scrap water charges so how do you intend to fund the provision of the water services'

Her answer was something along the lines of 'well at the last by-election the AAA did quite well' Seriously though how in the hell does anyone listen to the likes of her and think she talks sense, wants to abolish water charges yet cant explain how the provision of water services will be funded once the charges are abolished, ridiculous.

The other chap on it then makes a point of saying that it is intended to invest €1billion per year for 10 years on repairing and upgrading the water system. She interrupts him and says 'sure you spent €500 million on installing water meters, so why didn't you use that money to fix the broken infrastructure'.............

Why you fcuking idiot? Well because it is going to cost €10billion to fix it so using that money still leaves it short by about €9.5billion, but of course there is no point asking you how this will be funded as you will no doubt start talking about some recent by-election.

seamus

cletus van damme wrote: »

But how do we know any water charges will pay for the upkeep of the water system?

Where else would they go? The government is not collecting the water charges.

Lucy and Harry

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-water-asks-council-to-supply-names-and-addresses-of-council-tenants-649727.html oh no Irish Water are at it again.So much for the apology.Irish Water asks council to supply names and addresses of council tenants so much for Data protection.

Lucy and Harry

seamus wrote: »

Where else would they go? The government is not collecting the water charges.

they can go on big salaries bonuses and corrupt owners.

You're selective vision is infuriating

Please don't be infuriated or upset it is bad for you sir.Ad Hominem attacks are no use either and not helpful for honest debate.ARE YOU seriously denying the Irish tax payer has already paid for the set up of Irish Water.We have already paid out of the budget.Water meter installation costs wonga.They do not unlike water fall from the Sky

Ghost Buster

Barely There wrote: »

Apparently if you shout 'Enough is Enough' really, really loudly, it substantially reduces our budget deficit, increases capital spending on infrastructure and reduces taxes and charges on workers.

Not really sure why we haven't been trying this policy before now.

Stupid politicians again I suppose.

But the financial state of the country is obviously a lie. Were it true we wouldn't be setting up a utility which charges a cash strapped populace yet gives undiscretional bounses to its employees, gives highly paid positions to unqualified and previously discredited individuals, have proportionately more politicians employed than most similar countries, I could go on.
If oiur politicians would simply lead by example and give over with the 'do as I say not as I do' crap we might get some where...
Its a lie..WERE RICH!!!!

papu

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

they can go on big salaries bonuses and corrupt owners.


Please don't be infuriated or upset it is bad for you sir.Ad Hominem attacks are no use either and not helpful for honest debate.ARE YOU seriously denying the Irish tax payer has already paid for the set up of Irish Water.We have already paid out of the budget.Water meter installation costs wonga.They do not unlike water fall from the Sky

So where would the other 94% needed to fix the water supply come from?
if the 600million were spent fixing leaks?

Lucy and Harry

There are no poor people in Ireland we all have great phones and shop in Marks and Spencer for our food shopping.Eat caviar every night.
Can all afford holidays to Spain.We do not need to shop for clothes in Pennys and St Vincent De Paul does nothing.

Ghost Buster

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Errr, has anyone else not yet received their pack in the post yet? We have tried, but nothing yet!

At one point, before I copped on I spent about a week actively trying to get mine but kept hitting a wall. Ive kept copies and e mails of all my tweets and mails and recorded times and dates of the calls which constantly went to automated answers.

Lucy and Harry

papu wrote: »

So where would the other 94% needed to fix the water supply come from?
if the 600million were spent fixing leaks?

we cant afford to fix the leaks.That is the thing.600 million would be better off doing something though would it not.Instead of going to IW.They will not fix everything with a magic wand.They will not do it for free.We do not have the cash to fix all those leaks we are in poverty.Do you not get that?Do you not listen to people?They say they cant pay?They have too many bills coming through the door.Some people are losing their homes.People are committing suicide.RATES OF SUICIDE HAVE GONE UP do you not care?Is it a case of the typical Irish way of I am all right Jack fuuuu You have been told people have no blood to be sucked any more and yet still you demand we pay to fix leaks we cant afford to..IW have already made so many mistakes do you think they have the competence to fix water leaks.Really.Just because they come in and promise heaven you believe their lies.They are being set up to become a private company and then when things go up again and again for profit maybe someday you will see they lied and conned us.Our asset of water is being sold and no good will come of that.

Creative Juices

papu wrote: »

So where would the other 94% needed to fix the water supply come from?
if the 600million were spent fixing leaks?

I have visibility on public spending from one local authority and previously in a government department. There is still incredible waste within the public sector. Budgets get spent whether the spending is beneficial or not. Expense fraud and sick leave abuse is still widespread. It is certainly harder to abuse the system now but the culture is there and Irish people are clever. The government has failed to tackle that waste but seem intent on sustaining it at our expense. I don't think people mind paying taxes once they know their taxes aren't being wasted.

geeksauce

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

we cant afford to fix the leaks.That is the thing.600 million would be better off doing something though would it not.Instead of going to IW.They will not fix everything with a magic wand.They will not do it for free.We do not have the cash to fix all those leaks we are in poverty.Do you not get that?Do you not listen to people?They say they cant pay?They have too many bills coming through the door.Some people are losing their homes.People are committing suicide.RATES OF SUICIDE HAVE GONE UP do you not care?Is it a case of the typical Irish way of I am all right Jack fuuuu You have been told people have no blood to be sucked any more and yet still you demand we pay to fix leaks we cant afford to..IW have already made so many mistakes do you think they have the competence to fix water leaks.Really.Just because they come in and promise heaven you believe their lies.They are being set up to become a private company and then when things go up again and again for profit maybe someday you will see they lied and conned us.Our asset of water is being sold and no good will come of that.

Walls of text are incredibly annoying and difficult to read, but I am guessing from the first couple of lines of your post you are saying that the water should continue to be provided for free to people and that the 45 - 50% of water currently leaking through the old outdated infrastructure should continue that way too?

Your response to how are the leaks going to be fixed is to say they wont be fixed? Well that really just confirms the fact that you talk complete and utter rubbish.

Water charges will go a long way to repairing the leaking system so as someone who would like to see the shoddy infrastructure updated I will certainly listen to someone who has a plan on how to fix it before listening to someone who just says it cant be fixed. Not good enough, not good enough at all.

Streetwalker

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-water-asks-council-to-supply-names-and-addresses-of-council-tenants-649727.html oh no Irish Water are at it again.So much for the apology.Irish Water asks council to supply names and addresses of council tenants so much for Data protection.

Can't be done as far as im aware.

Lucy and Harry

Irish Water asks council to supply names and addresses of council tenants
15913


04/11/2014 - 12:10:57Back to Ireland Home
People Before Profit is calling on local authorities to reject attempts by Irish Water to secure the names and addresses of council tenants.
It comes after Wicklow County Council revealed that it has been asked to supply the information about Rental Accommodation Scheme tenants to the utility company.
The representative for People Before Profit in Greystones, Jacqui Johnston, says the latest attempt by Irish Water to secure personal details of local authority tenants will be seen as further evidence of the "desperate bullying attempts" to impose water charges.

very interesting this sounds illegal by IW

Can't be done as far as im aware.

I think you are right

Ghost Buster

sign_out wrote: »

i dont envy goverment

people cry about cutting waste but are also upset if relative of theirs are let go in areas of the public sector which are over staffed etc

Unemployment is generally upsetting. No excuse for waste and corruption in a screwed economy though

Irish Steve

Politicians lead by example? That'll be the day when I see pigs circling over Dublin Airport to land.

There is a more fundamental issue that's becoming clearer as this whole debacle winds tortuously on.

A significant number of the people of Ireland don't actually WANT real politicians, they're happy with the cute Hoor sleeveen crony favouring parish pump local issue corruption that passes as politics, because it means that those same people can still feel comfortable with their "feck ye and yer rules" attitude that was the standard approach to the colonial political masters that were in place before 1916, and that system hasn't changed since then, the only difference is that we've got local "masters", who are happy to ignore the people, and we've got a very good educations system that's been first class at turning out huge numbers of people who fit very comfortably into the State services mentality, and don't ask questions, or do anything that might rock the boat. We have very few whistle blowers or rebels, because the Catholic concept of the local "god", the priest, transfers very well to the political structure as well, and shore, you don't question or doubt God do you?

That's why we've had years of corruption, inappropriate activities, brown envelopes and cronyism, it goes alongside the total silence for years about paedophile priests, and the verbal physical and sexual abuse that went on for years in the highest levels of the church and religious organisations, but it was engrained almost from day 1, you don't question what you're told.

WELL............ Thank whatever deity you like, those times are at last going, and people are slowly and surely waking up the reality of life as it really is, and guess what, we've at last noticed, (or at least some of us have) that things are not well in the state of the state, and there are major and unacceptable issues at the top that are not being addressed by the people that we put there to do exactly that, with the latest bunch being the worst, as they specifically promised that they WOULD deal with the issues that are wrong with Politics.

The other aspect of the Feck ye attitude is that there are a lot of people that are then totally comfortable with getting someone in "to do a nixer", which then means that "the system" doesn't get things like the income tax and VAT that would help make the state finances better.

And yes, there are also some who haven't done an honest day's work in their lives, and have no intention of doing so unless they are forced to, and actually having to pay out something for a service that costs significantly is not on their radar, but this thread isn't about them, or it shouldn't be, the concept of a fair water charge system is inescapable.

The way our no longer fit for purpose political system and it's servants have structured that payment system, now that IS the subject of this thread, and as it stands, the IW concept is unacceptable, because times have changed, people are more aware than they used to be, and the "old" ways have been exposed for the sham and deception that they were, and an increasing number of people are now saying, NO MORE, we are NOT accepting this crony riddled quango as the best way forward for the future.

It won't be long before this thread hits the 10,000 post limit. I wonder how many posts and participants it will need before it really manages to get the attention of the people that are trying to pretend it doesn't exist at the moment.

Enda, Are you listening? You ignore us at your peril.

Cantona's Collars

sign_out wrote: »

while irish water appear to have been very good at lining up at the trough for bonuses etc

why on earth would people believe the local authorities ( the endless number of them ) would be particulary prudent with tax payers money when it comes to delivering water , they have zero form when it comes to fiscal prudence

That's why streamlining LA's water depts. was mentioned.At least then,somebody is accountable instead of money being divvied out to councils in every county and they all fighting for a piece of the pie.Isn't that what the property tax was claimed to be for? Ringfence a percentage of it for water services and the rest then paid out for all these amazing promises they made to us when it was introduced.

Creative Juices

sign_out wrote: »

i dont envy goverment

people cry about cutting waste but are also upset if relative of theirs are let go in areas of the public sector which are over staffed etc

There are no compulsory layoffs in the public sector.

riclad

how long till this company gets hacked.?
Its the only public body, apart from social welfare, revenue, that has everyone,s name and adress and prsi no.
This info would be very valuable to hackers ,for id theft and financial fraud .
I see no reason that a single person working. living alone has to give out a prsi no,given it has no effect on your water charge ,
I wonder are they using the latest encryption ,password hashing methods
to protect customer,s data.
What they do in the public sector ,councils etc is they stop replacing staff when people retire,
hence we get a lower level of service .

Cantona's Collars

riclad wrote: »

how long till this company gets hacked.?
Its the only public body, apart from social welfare, revenue, that has everyone,s name and adress and prsi no.
This info would be very valuable to hackers ,for id theft and financial fraud .
I see no reason that a single person working. living alone has to give out a prsi no,given it has no effect on your water charge ,
I wonder are they using the latest encryption ,password hashing methods
to protect customer,s data.

I seriously doubt it,they sent people's details to the wrong addresses already so I doubt their IT dept is up to scratch.They can't even reply to emails.
What would you expect from a company that makes it up as they go along.

WakeUp

cant help but feel that the ruling overlords are just detached from a large section of the people I dont know if its arrogance or they are just oblivious and dim but they seem disconnected. enda kenny not a penny said a government statement will be forthcoming next week but wont be drawn on whether or not the revenue will be brought in with their big ass gimme the god damn money or else stick. "clarity and confidence" he says. he must have missed those hundreds of thousands of people out on the streets the other day. maybe he was getting his hair cut. spotting that this issue affects every household in the country is a most astute observation on his part.
_________________________________________________________________________
The Taoiseach said he hoped “clarity and confidence” will be brought to the water charges debacle as soon as possible while acknowledging that ‘things were not done in all cases the way they should have been done.’

He confirmed the Government will make a fresh statement on water charges next week, saying it was an issue that affected every household in the country.

“It’s a case of having listened very carefully to people, having acknowledged that things were not done in all cases the way they should’ve been done,” he said.
“The Government will obviously make its decision [AND MAKE]a statement next week on this.”

Obviously, Enda.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/kenny-government-to-make-statement-on-water-charges-next-week-649686.html?

Meanwhile in Cork , even though she clearly isnt the brightest of people nobody deserves abuse on this scale, some of the natives would like too see Laura let them eat rain water McGonigle burned at the stake.
_______________________________________________________________________

councillor Laura McGonigle faced death wishes and the most vile and abusive language following the furore over her weekend Facebook post regarding Irish Water protesters.
The Fine Gael councillor admitted she was feeling overwhelmed by some of the comments, including calling for her to be drowned in a bath of water, to be burned, commenting on her appearance and publishing her mobile phone number encouraging others to send abuse.
She was lambasted for comments she made on her personal Twitter and Facebook accounts at the weekend that said protesters in Cork city “should collect all the rain water while out marching today and drink that for the week!”
http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/11/04/vile-abuse-cork-city-councillor/?

Interesting piece in todays Irish Times...

It should be so easy. How much political brilliance does it take to persuade the population that it is necessary to change a water supply system that leaves whole cities (Galway) and almost entire counties (Roscommon) without drinkable water for long periods? That wastes through leakage half of all the expensively treated water it produces? That the State can’t do this tells us something about much more than the debacle of Irish Water. It tells us about the governability of the State itself. It would be hysterical to suggest that the State is ungovernable. But it would be naive to deny that it is heading gradually in that direction. And heading there for good reasons: a very significant part of the population has ceased to feel that the State is theirs, that it tries its best to treat them with care and dignity.
The public revolt against water charges is not, for the most part, a rebellion against the eminently sensible idea that a small State should have a single public utility to develop its water system. It’s an expression of anger about bigger things: command-and-control politics; trust-me- I’m-an-expert arrogance; rotten, feckless disregard for the realities of life at the bottom of the heap; the feeling that nobody gives a curse how you live or what you think.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-irish-water-debacle-why-the-state-is-heading-towards-being-ungovernable-1.1986550

papu

riclad wrote: »

how long till this company gets hacked.?
Its the only public body, apart from social welfare, revenue, that has everyone,s name and adress and prsi no.
This info would be very valuable to hackers ,for id theft and financial fraud .
I see no reason that a single person working. living alone has to give out a prsi no,given it has no effect on your water charge ,
I wonder are they using the latest encryption ,password hashing methods
to protect customer,s data.
What they do in the public sector ,councils etc is they stop replacing staff when people retire,
hence we get a lower level of service .

No problems giving PPS numbers to doctors , dentists , the HSE , employers , Universities. These all have databases too.
Why wouldn't someone just hack the central government PPS database?

Lucy and Harry

This company was never set up to improve Irelands water system, it was set up with the sole purpose of lining the pockets of DO'B and all the usual suspects.
Jack O'Connor admitted yesterday that IW will be sold quickly as soon as it's up and running but that nobody in government had the guts to admit this.

No problems giving PPS numbers to doctors , dentists , the HSE , employers , Universities. These all have databases too.
Why wouldn't someone just hack the central government PPS database?

IW are doing it behind peoples back.Do you not see a difference.

Cantona's Collars

sign_out wrote: »

a very sizeable percentage of the electorate have the maturity of three year olds surrounding a teacher handing out sweets at the school xmas party

So in this democratic state,do you suggest we allow a certain few to choose who runs the country? North Korea would love you.

Highflyer13

WakeUp wrote: »

It should be so easy. How much political brilliance does it take to persuade the population that it is necessary to change a water supply system that leaves whole cities (Galway) and almost entire counties (Roscommon) without drinkable water for long periods? That wastes through leakage half of all the expensively treated water it produces? That the State can’t do this tells us something about much more than the debacle of Irish Water. It tells us about the governability of the State itself. It would be hysterical to suggest that the State is ungovernable. But it would be naive to deny that it is heading gradually in that direction. And heading there for good reasons: a very significant part of the population has ceased to feel that the State is theirs, that it tries its best to treat them with care and dignity.
The public revolt against water charges is not, for the most part, a rebellion against the eminently sensible idea that a small State should have a single public utility to develop its water system. It’s an expression of anger about bigger things: command-and-control politics; trust-me- I’m-an-expert arrogance; rotten, feckless disregard for the realities of life at the bottom of the heap; the feeling that nobody gives a curse how you live or what you think.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-irish-water-debacle-why-the-state-is-heading-towards-being-ungovernable-1.1986550

Even the Irish Times are rounding on their beloved FG. The state of affairs is very bad for FG. Fintan O'Toole is correct. We are becoming ungovernable. Who do we turn to after this mess? There is nobody worth the vote.

papu

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

This company was never set up to improve Irelands water system, it was set up with the sole purpose of lining the pockets of DO'B and all the usual suspects.
Jack O'Connor admitted yesterday that IW will be sold quickly as soon as it's up and running but that nobody in government had the guts to admit this.

IW are doing it behind peoples back.Do you not see a difference.

Where does Jack get his information? Where does he buy his crystal ball from?

I'm pretty sure the Box said PPS on the application form , it was pretty clear.