***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Hande hoche!

Ross Kemp wouldn't have that.

keno-daytrader

jamesbere wrote: »

Is the leak on your property?

Well I dont know, thats one of the issues I raised, I turn off the mains in my house and the meter is still spinning like mad :eek:

jamesbere

keno-daytrader wrote: »

Well I dont know, thats one of the issues I raised, I turn off the mains in my house and the meter is still spinning like mad :eek:

Did you call a plumber? how long has it been leaking for?

kneemos

Thought it was always a free first fix.

_Whimsical_

keno-daytrader wrote: »

Good ole Phil, he promised us free leak fixes for a year after Irish water start billing, well thats out the window already.

"To help households control consumption, the Government will fund a scheme providing a free first fix of leaks" He wrote this just 3 short months ago.

http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/local-news/reforming-ireland-s-water-minister-phil-hogan-writes-for-the-leinster-express-1-6131677

I have a leak of 1000's of liters a day and this is the response I got from Irish water. (Im a tenant but responsible for what goes thru the meter)

"Thank you for your email regarding a potential leak.

The owner/occupier is responsible for the maintenance for any water pipe work up to 225mm from the boundary of their property. Irish Water are responsible for the maintenance for any water pipe work beyond this point. If the leak is on your private property, it would be your responsibility to get it fixed."

Wow now they will cover a full 8 inches from the property!

Thanks Phil, enjoy that great EU job and 2 fat pensions you will get, your the best!

That is appalling. It was obviously completely misrepresented in the media. You should send it onto the journal.ie or some news paper/station.

AnonoBoy

If I was a carpenter I'd hammer in the morning.
If I was a plumber, I'd be cleaning up around now fixing leaks all over the country as people scramble to not be billed up the arse for water.

Rips

Its semantics, Seamus you say you'd protest a flat water charge or tax, yet that's what I'll be paying.

Transparency is showing you why you're paying the amount that you are. If ESB (or whoever), decided to charge you a flat €300 a month regardless of how much power you used, you'd be at a loss to explain why they're charging you that, and why you're still paying €300 even though you went on holidays for two weeks.

Irish Water say I'll lose my 'free allowance' if I don't sign up, when in fact, what they actually mean is 'we'll charge you more if you don't sign up'.

I don't get a 'free allowance' since no matter how little I use, I'll pay the same as someone in the next apartment over who is running their taps day and night.

Transparent? :pac:

Mrs Garth Brooks

Next year's budget, they'll scrap the free water allowance.

suicide_circus

I am renting. I have had precisely zero communication from Irish Water or from the landlord about Irish Water.

Mr McBoatface

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Next year's budget, they'll scrap the free water allowance.

No the year AFTER the election.....

stevedublin

jobyrne30 wrote: »

No the year AFTER the election.....

No, they'll scrap the water charge altogether then (FF/SF will be in power).
Also, anyone who refused to pay will not be chased, making the compliant sheep who did look foolish.

Timberrrrrrrr

stevedublin wrote: »

No, they'll scrap the water charge altogether then (FF/SF will be in power).
Also, anyone who refused to pay will not be chased, making the compliant sheep who did look foolish.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAA

seamus

Rips wrote: »

Its semantics, Seamus you say you'd protest a flat water charge or tax, yet that's what I'll be paying.

Yes, if that was the solution on the table. It's not.

You temporarily have it because you have specific circumstances, which most of the rest of the country don't. I'm not going to be paying a flat charge, so why would I oppose it?

You can certainly claim to be a victim of circumstance, but you can't claim that the entire thing is inherently flawed because of your circumstance.

Do you complain too that you pay the same bin charges as your neighbours even though you produce less waste?

animaal

seamus wrote: »

That's consistency, not transparency. Transparency is showing you why you're paying the amount that you are.

I disagree. Transparency means obvious, or easily understood. A regular flat charge is both. With what we're getting (household allowances, allowances for children, unmetered households), it's out in the open, but not nearly as obvious or easily understood.

The "why you're paying the amount that you are" is because the country's finances were left in a mess by the last government. and the current one is setting the price so as to bring in a set amount from the overall population. Saying "You're paying X because you used this amount of water, and you have two children, but one of them is over 18" isn't more transparent than saying "You're paying X because that's the flat fee".

seamus wrote: »

The cost of water is dependent on where the company spends its money. If you don't know that, then you cannot say whether the charge is reasonable or not.

No, the price is calculated to be as high as can/will be accepted by the public. If water was twice as expensive to produce, I don't think our bills would be double what they are now. Likewise, if we conserve water and cut our usage by half, the bills won't be left at half their current amount.

seamus wrote: »

They will be required to file an annual return every year which will provide this financial information. There cannot be a "black hole" where "the rest goes" because everything will have to be detailed in their returns.

I've worked with companies where spending was easily moved from under heading A to heading B. This could be done in outright illegal ways, or more subtle ways (through fuzzy interpretation of what the headings meant). This was especially tax-efficient for organisations that could show an increase under the heading of "Research and Development". Organisations like Fas were perhaps an extreme example, but it goes on all over the place.

geeksauce

keno-daytrader wrote: »

Well I dont know, thats one of the issues I raised, I turn off the mains in my house and the meter is still spinning like mad :eek:

If the meter is turning after you have turned the water off in your house chances are the leak is somewhere between the meter and your house. As this is on your property it would be your responsibility to get it fixed. There are a couple of ways you can check for leaks, locate the pipe and block it off at different intervals thereby isolating the area where the leak is occurring, dig it up and fix it.

It would be no different than having a leaking tap in your house, you wouldn't expect Irish Water to fix this tap for you for free and then give you an allowance for the water that has leaked through your broken tap?

seamus

animaal wrote: »

I disagree. Transparency means obvious, or easily understood. A regular flat charge is both. With what we're getting (household allowances, allowances for children, unmetered households), it's out in the open, but not nearly as obvious or easily understood.

It's not a matter of agree or disagree. It's common term. In financial and political contexts, "transparency" refers to the availability of information and accountability for money and actions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_(behavior)

Something being simple to understand is not transparency, it's simplicity.

What you describe - "With what we're getting (household allowances, allowances for children, unmetered households), it's out in the open", is transparency - "out in the open", think about what the word "transparent" means. Simplifying charges by grouping everything together into a single line item with no breakdown, is the exact opposite of transparent. It's opaque because you have no visibility past the charge to see what you're paying for.

No, the price is calculated to be as high as can/will be accepted by the public. If water was twice as expensive to produce, I don't think our bills would be double what they are now. Likewise, if we conserve water and cut our usage by half, the bills won't be left at half their current amount.

I never said otherwise. I just said that you'll be able to correlate the price you pay at the tap with the company's spending. If the company spends loads of money, the price at the tap will be high.

geeksauce

animaal wrote: »

I disagree. Transparency means obvious, or easily understood. A regular flat charge is both. With what we're getting (household allowances, allowances for children, unmetered households), it's out in the open, but not nearly as obvious or easily understood.

Why would anyone want to pay a regular flat charge? I am delighted to be metered and to not be the ones without a meter in so far, at least I know my bills can be controlled by my usage. Imagine if I used 20,000 litres this year and my neighbour used 200,000 litres in the same time and we paid the same amount. Absolutely crazy situation to head down, meters are the best option for all.

keno-daytrader

geeksauce wrote: »

If the meter is turning after you have turned the water off in your house chances are the leak is somewhere between the meter and your house. As this is on your property it would be your responsibility to get it fixed. There are a couple of ways you can check for leaks, locate the pipe and block it off at different intervals thereby isolating the area where the leak is occurring, dig it up and fix it.

It would be no different than having a leaking tap in your house, you wouldn't expect Irish Water to fix this tap for you for free and then give you an allowance for the water that has leaked through your broken tap?

Have you been out of the country for the last year? Phil and the govt promised that any leaks would be fixed by IW for the first year.

I am a renter, my landlords will have nothing to do with Irish water and there is 0zero chance of them digging up the place to repair a leak,

So where does that leave the renter as Im responsible for the bill?

The whole Irish water thing is a farce in so many ways. 50 mil on outside consultants and they havent addressed any of these problems that are arising but we start paying from next week.

Once again, thanks Phil

Sillyquestions

I know this is inconvenient as hell but why not just go out the front and turn off the water at the actual meter? I know you shouldn't have to and all but if it will save you potentially hundreds of euro a year wouldn't it be worth it?

geeksauce

keno-daytrader wrote: »

Have you been out of the country for the last year? Phil and the govt promised that any leaks would be fixed by IW for the first year.

I am a renter, my landlords will have nothing to do with Irish water and there is 0zero chance of them digging up the place to repair a leak,

So where does that leave the renter as Im responsible for the bill?

The whole Irish water thing is a farce in so many ways. 50 mil on outside consultants and they havent addressed any of these problems that are arising but we start paying from next week.

I don't think I ever heard them say they will be fixed by Irish Water, I did read somewhere that Irish Water would make people aware of leaks on their premises when the meter is installed. I would then assume after this people have to fix their own leaks and can make an application to Irish Water for an allowance based on the fact that they had a leak and had to fix it, couldn't imagine Irish Water wanting to go down the route of fixing leaks in 1000's of private properties across the country.

Gone Drinking

suicide_circus wrote: »

I am renting. I have had precisely zero communication from Irish Water or from the landlord about Irish Water.

I'm also renting. Got an Irish water application pack in the post the other week. I'd imagine you will to.

Mr McBoatface

What bugs me about the whole water charging and PPS stuff is

(1) The double taxation - I'm not going to get my current taxes reduced
(2) Irish water is not regulated, the ombudsman has no powers over it. It has no other competition so it's an unregulated monopoly
(3) Why the hell do the need my PPS details, seriously why ? Why can't I get tax credits from revenue to the value of the so called free allowances.

I've no problem with people paying for water I'm already doing it, i always have. I've no problem with those who never pay a penny in tax having to pay for water, but as things stand the entire Irish water goings on is a mess.

Satriale

Ye were crazy to believe it in the first place. If they dont give a flying fcuk about the 40% of clean water p1ssing away into the ground, what would make you think they were interested in a few hundred gallons beyond the meter.
Face it people, ye are just a minor inconvenience between them and your wallets.

keno-daytrader

geeksauce wrote: »

I don't think I ever heard them say they will be fixed by Irish Water, I did read somewhere that Irish Water would make people aware of leaks on their premises when the meter is installed. I would then assume after this people have to fix their own leaks and can make an application to Irish Water for an allowance based on the fact that they had a leak and had to fix it, couldn't imagine Irish Water wanting to go down the route of fixing leaks in 1000's of private properties across the country.

You assumed wrong, this was written by Phil and was all over the news. This is a quote from Phil 3 months ago, he wrote it, as the link I provided in post #1.

"To help households control consumption, the Government will fund a scheme providing a free first fix of leaks identified by meter installers during the metering programme. Leakage can drive water usage up significantly, often without householders knowing. As well as helping to control bills, this scheme will also reduce national leakage, which is unacceptably high at 40% of all water produced."

There was supposed to be 50mil+ set aside for this very thing.

kneemos

keno-daytrader wrote: »

Have you been out of the country for the last year? Phil and the govt promised that any leaks would be fixed by IW for the first year.

I am a renter, my landlords will have nothing to do with Irish water and there is 0zero chance of them digging up the place to repair a leak,

So where does that leave the renter as Im responsible for the bill?

The whole Irish water thing is a farce in so many ways. 50 mil on outside consultants and they havent addressed any of these problems that are arising but we start paying from next week.

Once again, thanks Phil

It's your landlords responsibility to maintain,get medieval on hid ass.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

keno-daytrader

kneemos wrote: »

It's your landlords responsibility to maintain,get medieval on hid ass.

I understand and agree.

If a leak is found then the bill should revert to the landlord until such leak is fixed, how simple would that be, but no one that was paid the 50mil for outside consulting thought of this.

Pyridine

keno-daytrader wrote: »

The whole Irish water thing is a farce in so many ways. 50 mil on outside consultants

Once again, thanks Phil

keno-daytrader wrote: »

There was supposed to be 50mil+ set aside for this very thing.

Ah, I see what happened there! No more money for fixes so.

Leroy42

jobyrne30 wrote: »

What bugs me about the whole water charging and PPS stuff is

(3) Why the hell do the need my PPS details, seriously why ? Why can't I get tax credits from revenue to the value of the so called free allowances.

This is exactly the way they should have done it.

Social allowances are of no business to the company. They should charge the commerically relevant rate and if government want to give allowances then so be it.

With all the additional taxes and charges we really need to move to a tax return per person per year. We now have companies deducting LPT from wages, other people paying directly, and now water charges. IW have no business knowing my family situation anymore than the ESB

Son Of A Vidic

keno-daytrader wrote: »

Big Phil's last lie

Last lie? Believe me, there's a lot of lies left in that lackey scumbag.