***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

eeepaulo

DamagedTrax wrote: »

selective eyesight to go along with the well known FG condition of selective hearing.

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Hear-No-Evil-See-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil.jpg

Irish Steve

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Aren't the meters revealing many of the leaks?

Depends on where the leaks are, if they are in the mains network before the meters, then the only way they will get to be sure is by comparing all the meters totals with what's gone into the area through the larger area meters. The shortcoming will be if there are significant numbers without meters, as they will have to be estimated.

What will show up clearly is where there is some form of leak between the meter and the house, or under the floor of the house, as the usage will be a lot higher than expected, as has been seen already from one report earlier in the thread. Indirectly, it will also provide "encouragement" to people who have leaking taps or WC's to get them fixed, which is no bad thing either, the loss from what looks like a small leak can be significant, as it's running 24/7.

What's also significant is that a leak under the floor may not show as such, a friend of mine had a pipe blown on his heating system which was flowing at a significant rate under a concrete screed floor, but there was no evidence of the leak visible, we had to track it using audio equipment that narrowed it down to a metre square area, and then we had to break out the screen where we could see the pipe line until we found a blown joint.


And in response to another poster, yes, the Troika pushed the issue, probably because they could see that the tax base needed to be widened, and because the EU has mandated (in 2000, or 2001) charging as a way to encourage economy on water use, with charging by point of use being the preferred and fairest way of determining the charge. This has been coming for a long time, but like the NCT, it was only introduced when there was no option left to avoid it, which is no great surprise, Irish Politicians have been good at ignoring things until the last moment, as they can then blame Europe for the unpopular policies. Nothing new there then.

hju6

Cast,

Enda played by "Father Jack"

Irish Water played by "the brick"

Labour and Fine Gael represented by "Father Ted"

Mrs Doyle is Mrs Doyle,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZU6UMDfgY

mzungu

twowheelsgood wrote: »

I personally don’t doubt that the majority of the protestors are genuine. Most will either genuinely struggle to pay an additional charge or genuinely believe that “enough is enough”.

This is one of the major problems as I see it for FG. A lot of people who are out protesting are not anti water charges altogether, most would happily pay if water conservation was its primary goal. Instead we get drip fed information on very costly price structures , bonuses for IW staff even when they under achieve and an endless steam of lies and spin all aimed at getting the ordinary joe/josephine to get back in their box. Its almost quite an achievement when you think of it, FG have managed to get Irish people protesting on the streets over a charge most of them would have happily paid had all this been done in the right manner.

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm against IW, but I agree with Enda on this. Stupid government tools coming out the last few days calling for a referendum.

The constitution has been abused enough with amendments regarding things that have nothing to do with the structure and direction of a republic, and utilities should not be in there either.

It could backfire badly as so much constitutional tampering has before and the Supreme Court will say "every person has the right to own a bucket"

I doubt Mr. Kenny has the best interests of the constitution in mind. For me if just confirmed all along that IW is going to be privatised. He can give all the assurances that he wants, because chances are that if and when privatisation does go ahead, he will happily be in retirement and won't have to face down the crapstorm.

emo72

mzungu wrote: »

I doubt Mr. Kenny has the best interests of the constitution in mind. For me if just confirmed all along that IW is going to be privatised. He can give all the assurances that he wants, because chances are that if and when privatisation does go ahead, he will happily be in retirement and won't have to face down the crapstorm.

yeah. he has looked shellshocked this week. he was always relied upon to put out a well executed soundbite, but this week he is stumbling over his utterences. his backbenchers may sacrifice him to save themselves. he may be put out to pasture in europe. fuuckers like him never lose.

all we can try do is defeat europe and our political masters and stop our kids paying this extra burden forevermore.

twowheelsgood

mzungu wrote: »

FG have managed to get Irish people protesting on the streets over a charge most of them would have happily paid had all this been done in the right manner.

I seriously doubt that. No matter how well it was done there was always going to be significant opposition to water charges, just as there was to property tax. Whether the opposition is strong enough to temporarily put a stop to metered water charges remains to be seen.

mzungu wrote: »

all we can try do is defeat europe and our political masters and stop our kids paying this extra burden forevermore.

You mean our national debt?

mzungu

emo72 wrote: »

all we can try do is defeat europe and our political masters and stop our kids paying this extra burden forevermore.

As regards the national debt, that ship sailed long ago. No matter what happens with IW or who gets into power.

twowheelsgood wrote: »

I seriously doubt that. No matter how well it was done there was always going to be significant opposition to water charges, just as there was to property tax. Whether the opposition is strong enough to temporarily put a stop to metered water charges remains to be seen.
You mean our national debt?

I agree there would have been opposition to it, but like the property tax it would have gone through if the authorities had not made such a pigs ear of the whole set up. I said up above ''gladly paid'' which was the wrong choice of words. There would have been opposition, most would have been unhappy about it, but there would not have been any marches or major protests.

Streetwalker

Thing is it's not just about IW anymore, it's a bigger picture than that. IW is the turning point imo. I'll be honest I didn't see it coming not a single bit of it but "Paddy" has said enough is enough and the line has been drawn in the sand. Only matter left to discuss now is if the government are thick enough to carry on as the stubborn eejits they are proven to be up to now or get real.

Little CuChulainn

emo72 wrote: »

incidentally, i notice the only thing you took offence too was the term molotov cocktail. not the outrageous detail before it that made everyones jaw drop. and there i was standing there holding it waiting for you to offer me matches:rolleyes:

I find violence more deplorable than corruption and incompetence. Am I supposed to feel bad about that?

Infini

To be honest I'm happy to see these protests many have been quietly giving out for years about rising prices and such (only last week they announced price increases for transport companies that even the unions turned around and said what the hell about it) and the way Irish Water was rushed through and the way its been setup as another quango for profit instead of a simple water department seems to have been the final straw. Always said that these gombeens were poking a sleeping dragon and sooner or later it was gonna wake up and burn the bollocks outta them.

Theyre not gonna admit it but theyre in a panic now. Regardless of the reasons this has become the biggest protest in Irish History without a doubt. Theyre trying to backpedal now and sweeten up the public but if everyones smart theyll see past their little charade and continue to keep the pressure up until they finally back down entirely. People simply have no more to give its that simple and until that point gets across loud and clear the only thing i can see is this continuing until either they back down or are thrown out altogether.

cerastes

mzungu wrote: »

This is one of the major problems as I see it for FG. A lot of people who are out protesting are not anti water charges altogether, most would happily pay if water conservation was its primary goal. Instead we get drip fed information on very costly price structures , bonuses for IW staff even when they under achieve and an endless steam of lies and spin all aimed at getting the ordinary joe/josephine to get back in their box. Its almost quite an achievement when you think of it, FG have managed to get Irish people protesting on the streets over a charge most of them would have happily paid had all this been done in the right manner.


I doubt Mr. Kenny has the best interests of the constitution in mind. For me if just confirmed all along that IW is going to be privatised. He can give all the assurances that he wants, because chances are that if and when privatisation does go ahead, he will happily be in retirement and won't have to face down the crapstorm.

Infini2 wrote: »

To be honest I'm happy to see these protests many have been quietly giving out for years about rising prices and such (only last week they announced price increases for transport companies that even the unions turned around and said what the hell about it) and the way Irish Water was rushed through and the way its been setup as another quango for profit instead of a simple water department seems to have been the final straw. Always said that these gombeens were poking a sleeping dragon and sooner or later it was gonna wake up and burn the bollocks outta them.

Theyre not gonna admit it but theyre in a panic now. Regardless of the reasons this has become the biggest protest in Irish History without a doubt. Theyre trying to backpedal now and sweeten up the public but if everyones smart theyll see past their little charade and continue to keep the pressure up until they finally back down entirely. People simply have no more to give its that simple and until that point gets across loud and clear the only thing i can see is this continuing until either they back down or are thrown out altogether.

You can read the contempt they have though, Kinny says no referendum, not even a suggestion that any suggestion of privatization should have a referendum, just rejig the legislation long enough for them to get out of there. They couldnt do this before, yet the whole thing was rushed in which suited them to do in a hurry, and now again they can change legislation in a hurry, they are such a gang of lying sociopathic crooks.
Pushing out the signing up to encourage more to sign up as they know its failed, still only paltry concessions on what it will actually cost and no certainty that it wont be increased significantly in the future after everything has settled down, anything at all about performance bonuses?? and pay at IW, just a few apologies out the sides of their mouths.

efb

Morning Ireland: Gerry is paying his water charges now... I can't keep up with his flip flopping

In Lonesome Dove

Wurly wrote: »

Taken from the Boycott Irish Water page on Facebook:

"Hubert Kearns was Sligo County Manager for 17 years and when he retired in 2013 he received a lump sum of 270,000 and a pension of 68,000 per year. His time as Sligo manager was controversial and he left behind a County debt of 80 million. "It's not the end of the world, nobody died," he said about the council's financial woes. At one stage he refused to attend council meetings in a dispute with an independent Councillor and spent more than €50,000 council money hiring HR consultant Declan Naughton to monitor meetings. Asked to comment on reports that his own pay as Sligo Manager, at €136,000, was €30,000 more than that of the Spanish prime minister, Mr Kearns said his salary was fixed by Government. “I am surprised that the Spanish prime minister earns so little.”
So after retiring from Sligo he has his pockets full, thanks to the taxpayer - that's YOU and ME, So, has Mr Kearns taken up fishing? No, Hubert has apparently found gainful employment with Irish Water.
Irish Water, home to retired Council managers, headed up by retired Dublin Manager John Tierney (salary 200,000 Eur). But apparently Irish Water managers (like Hubert?) would have to get by on a measly 100,000. Hopefully though they might be able to survive once the expenses and free cars are factored in.
So you can see good people why it's going to take 20 years to fix all those rusty old water pipes!""

I read about this a few weeks ago.

It's absolute dirty insult to so many people. And before any of the FG suppoters come on state - it must be down to jealousy or begrudry - seeing a fellow man with so much and wanting a piece of his pie.

It's not down to jealousy or begrudgety.

Many people in employment had to take paycuts. Many underemployed. For the unemployed - they are facing schemes such as internships, tus, gateway, - working for their dole of 100 euro, 140 or 188 with an extra 50. Pay incomes for us pheasants that are pure muck. The government then turn around and creates this organisation consisting of fat cats.

Banjo String

efb wrote: »

Morning Ireland: Gerry is paying his water charges now... I can't keep up with his flip flopping

Didn't he always say he would pay?

efb

Banjo String wrote: »

Didn't he always say he would pay?

He said a few days ago he wouldn't, now at the end of the interview he seems to be not paying again... (In his holiday home)

Banjo String

efb wrote: »

He said a few days ago he wouldn't, now at the end of the interview he seems to be not paying again... (In his holiday home)

Not that I'm aware of.

He said (weeks ago) that he was unsure if he'd have to pay. His Louth home isn't his, and there was some uncertainty if his cottage had a well.

Thankfully though, many don't be persuaded by politicians stances on this issue regardless.

geeksauce

Banjo String wrote: »

Not that I'm aware of.

He said (weeks ago) that he was unsure if he'd have to pay. His Louth home isn't his, and there was some uncertainty if his cottage had a well.

Thankfully though, many don't be persuaded by politicians stances on this issue regardless.

This is the same fella that leads a party that a lot round here want to see running the country in a couple of years. He doesn't even know if a property he owns has a well or not? Wow.

Banjo String

geeksauce wrote: »

This is the same fella that leads a party that a lot round here want to see running the country in a couple of years. He doesn't even know if a property he owns has a well or not? Wow.

I never said the uncertainty came from him. It was uncertainty on the media's part at the time.

Jeez.

geeksauce

Banjo String wrote: »

I never said the uncertainty came from him. It was uncertainty on the media's part at the time.

Jeez.

Ah right misread it, still I am sure he knows himself then and wouldn't mind clarifying it.

Lucy and Harry

More than one in four children have been left on or below the poverty line since the economy crashed, according to an international study on the impact of the recession.

Child poverty rates jumped from 18% to 28.6% between 2008 and 2012 — an increase of 130,000 that brought the number of children living in hardship here to 350,000.

That puts Ireland in 37th place out of 41 developed countries ranked by Unicef according to how well they’ve managed to insulate children from the impact of the global economic crisis.

According to Unicef, median Irish family income has regressed 10 years.
let us now put their water down to a trickle so they cant wash themselves in showers and use dishwashers and use washing machines to clean uniforms for school.Our children and grandchildren will surely thank our generation for being good little peasants and paying back these banks.Good old Ireland is gone.

Red Pepper

Did Irish Water really say they would reduce water to a trickle for those that dont pay?

martomcg

So I saw on the news yester-morn that large areas in/around Clondalkin flooded due a burst water main -

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/clondalkin-houses-evacuated-after-water-main-bursts-1.1987498

So when/if Irish Water finally goes ahead and there is a company responsible for water (for which we will be paying a fee for service) then does that mean they are legally liable for any damage to property in cases as the above?

smash

martomcg wrote: »

So I saw on the news yester-morn that large areas in/around Clondalkin flooded due a burst water main -

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/clondalkin-houses-evacuated-after-water-main-bursts-1.1987498

So when/if Irish Water finally goes ahead and there is a company responsible for water (for which we will be paying a fee for service) then does that mean they are legally liable for any damage to property in cases as the above?

Are the council liable to property damage resulting from flooding at the moment?

BoJack Horseman

martomcg wrote: »

So when/if Irish Water finally goes ahead and there is a company responsible for water (for which we will be paying a fee for service) then does that mean they are legally liable for any damage to property in cases as the above?

If the council pay compensation to homes/businesses already then I'd imagine that won't change under IW.

martomcg

smash wrote: »

Are the council liable to property damage resulting from flooding at the moment?

Thats not really the same thing. You dont directly pay the council for water at the moment.

After IW is established as a utility company, you'll pay them directly and not the government.

I presume if theres a gas explosion then Bord Gais are responsible for any damage. Or if your bin company damage your bins they're liable to replace them.

yipeeeee

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

More than one in four children have been left on or below the poverty line since the economy crashed, according to an international study on the impact of the recession.

Child poverty rates jumped from 18% to 28.6% between 2008 and 2012 — an increase of 130,000 that brought the number of children living in hardship here to 350,000.

That puts Ireland in 37th place out of 41 developed countries ranked by Unicef according to how well they’ve managed to insulate children from the impact of the global economic crisis.

According to Unicef, median Irish family income has regressed 10 years.
let us now put their water down to a trickle so they cant wash themselves in showers and use dishwashers and use washing machines to clean uniforms for school.Our children and grandchildren will surely thank our generation for being good little peasants and paying back these banks.Good old Ireland is gone.

They have it so hard compared to past generations alright.

No one in this country lives in poverty.

smash

martomcg wrote: »

Thats not really the same thing. You dont directly pay the council for water at the moment.

you do, through taxes.

martomcg wrote: »

After IW is established as a utility company, you'll pay them directly and not the government.

I presume if theres a gas explosion then Bord Gais are responsible for any damage.

Difference is that Board Gais built and own their infrastructure, IW didn't.

martomcg wrote: »

Or if your bin company damage your bins they're liable to replace them.

Most bin companies own the bins, you just rent them.

Banjo String

geeksauce wrote: »

Ah right misread it, still I am sure he knows himself then and wouldn't mind clarifying it.

He has now said he won't be paying after attending protests in Dundalk. Reason being he misread the public anger.

No clarification either way on how his cottage is or isn't connected to any well or mains.

It's also a u-turn by him, but as I already said. Thankfully many people aren't influenced by politicians these days and will make up their own minds.

Banjo String

yipeeeee wrote: »

They have it so hard compared to past generations alright.

No one in this country lives in poverty .

That's a load of baloney.

Authors of Social Justice report question Irish government’s commitment to equality. Photo by: Getty

A new survey shows that 750,000 people in Ireland live in poverty – an increase of 120,000 since the collapse of the Celtic Tiger.

The report, commissioned by the Social Justice Ireland group, says that a quarter of those living in poverty are children.

It also states that 16 percent of adults living in poverty have jobs but are broke.

Announcing the results of its survey entitled "Poverty and Income Distribution," Social Justice Ireland was critical of the Irish government’s ‘commitment’ to equality.

The group highlighted that the top 10 percent of households in Ireland receive 24 percent of total disposable income while the bottom 10 percent received just three percent.

Fr Seán Healy, director of Social Justice Ireland, told the Irish Times: “These figures show a profound failure on the part of Government to protect the vulnerable during the crisis.

“The value of core social welfare payments has been eroded by inflation increases since 2010. Social Justice Ireland is proposing a €5 increase in core weekly social welfare payments in budget 2015 to go some way towards addressing this deficit in budget 2015.”

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/education/750000-people-live-in-poverty-in-post-Celtic-Tiger-Ireland.html

Red Pepper

yipeeeee wrote: »

They have it so hard compared to past generations alright.

No one in this country lives in poverty.

Off topic a bit but I saw a 7 year old being dragged to school a few weeks ago munching a bag of Tayto. It was her breakfast.