***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

martomcg

smash wrote: »

you do, through taxes.


Difference is that Board Gais built and own their infrastructure, IW didn't.


Most bin companies own the bins, you just rent them.

Taxation and paying for a service to a utility are 2 completely seperate things.

Thats why Revenue can't enforce payment on behalf of Irish water. Its not a water tax, its a water charge.

The government is trying to get us to pay a utility company for water while still paying the same tax that previously covered water charges.

Bord Gais didnt build their own infrastructure, it was once a state owned company that was privatised. Your taxes paid for the infrastructure thats there.

Barely There

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Our children and grandchildren will surely thank our generation for being good little peasants and paying back these banks.Good old Ireland is gone.

I'm sure they'd be delighted if we paid back both banking and the far higher deficit debt we've run up, rather than leaving it for them to pay back.

yipeeeee

Banjo String wrote: »

That's a load of baloney.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/education/750000-people-live-in-poverty-in-post-Celtic-Tiger-Ireland.html

Look up what poverty actually means and where it exists in other parts of the world then tell me a quarter of Irish people live in poverty.

Here:

United Nations: Fundamentally, poverty is the inability of getting choices and opportunities, a violation of human dignity. It means lack of basic capacity to participate effectively in society. It means not having enough to feed and clothe a family, not having a school or clinic to go to, not having the land on which to grow one’s food or a job to earn one’s living, not having access to credit. It means insecurity, powerlessness and exclusion of individuals, households and communities. It means susceptibility to violence, and it often implies living in marginal or fragile environments, without access to clean water or sanitation.[9]

oceanman

Infini2 wrote: »

To be honest I'm happy to see these protests many have been quietly giving out for years about rising prices and such (only last week they announced price increases for transport companies that even the unions turned around and said what the hell about it) and the way Irish Water was rushed through and the way its been setup as another quango for profit instead of a simple water department seems to have been the final straw. Always said that these gombeens were poking a sleeping dragon and sooner or later it was gonna wake up and burn the bollocks outta them.

Theyre not gonna admit it but theyre in a panic now. Regardless of the reasons this has become the biggest protest in Irish History without a doubt. Theyre trying to backpedal now and sweeten up the public but if everyones smart theyll see past their little charade and continue to keep the pressure up until they finally back down entirely. People simply have no more to give its that simple and until that point gets across loud and clear the only thing i can see is this continuing until either they back down or are thrown out altogether.

+1 good post..

Banjo String

yipeeeee wrote: »

Look up what poverty actually means and where it exists in other parts of the world then tell me a quarter of Irish people live in poverty.

Ah okay I'm with you now.

Until some poverty stricken Irish people are as low as folk in say, Haiti, they've no right to claim poverty, is that it

geeksauce

Banjo String wrote: »

Ah okay I'm with you now.

Until some poverty stricken Irish people are as low as folk in say, Haiti, they've no right to claim poverty, is that it

No but there is Irish poverty and then there is actual poverty.

Irish poverty being people moaning about not being able to afford water charges while sitting at home watching sky and spending all day updating facebook on their iPads, then taking a break from it all and heading off to Spain for two weeks of the year, their biggest worry being what will happen their SW payments if they aren't in the country to sign for them.

Banjo String

geeksauce wrote: »

No but there is Irish poverty and then there is actual poverty.

Irish poverty being people moaning about not being able to afford water charges while sitting at home watching sky and spending all day updating facebook on their iPads, then taking a break from it all and heading off to Spain for two weeks of the year, their biggest worry being what will happen their SW payments if they aren't in the country to sign for them.

Lol, that old cliché, all SW recipients livin it large in the canaries lol...

Ok, two examples.

A man on the street in Dublin. Homeless and penniless.
A man on the streets of and homeless and penniless.

Who is poorer?

DamagedTrax

IMF admits they gave faulty advice in 2010/11

The IMF did not sufficiently tailor its advice to countries based on their individual circumstances and access to financing when recommending either expansion or consolidation

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/imf-report-crisis-review-1762754-Nov2014/


Added to the possible contents of trichet's letter, this is another nail in the coffin of IW and this government. How can they continue with a program now acknowledged to be wrong?

In Lonesome Dove

geeksauce wrote: »

No but there is Irish poverty and then there is actual poverty.

Irish poverty being people moaning about not being able to afford water charges while sitting at home watching sky and spending all day updating facebook on their iPads, then taking a break from it all and heading off to Spain for two weeks of the year, their biggest worry being what will happen their SW payments if they aren't in the country to sign for them.

This is so condescending. I can assure you, poverty very much exists and it isn't how you painted it. Do know how I know? Because I came from such a place. I grew up in a one parent family in school and things were not easy. Lunch at times were just plain buttered bread. Walking around with holy shoes. Appliances at home broken waiting for a time to be able to repair them. No money for oil for heating and the oil burner was more a decoration in the kitchen. Far from shy packages and holidays we were thinking about. This was the late 90s. Poverty very much exists and just because it hasn't greeted you on your doorstep does it mean it's not there.

geeksauce

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

This is so condescending. I can assure you, poverty very much exists and it isn't how you painted it. Do know how I know? Because I came from such a place. I grew up in a one parent family in school, things were not easy. Lunch at time were just plain buttered bread. Walking around with holy shoes. Appliances at home broken waiting for a time to be able to repair them. No money for oil for heating and the oil burner was more a decoration in the kitchen. Far from shy packages and holidays we were thinking about. This was the late 90s. Poverty very much exists and just because it hasn't greeted you on your doorstep does it mean it's not there.

Never said it didn't exist in Ireland, my point was that a lot of the people I know that claim to be too poor to pay the Water Charges have a lot of luxuries in their homes that cost an awful lot more per annum than the water charges will cost. Their priorities are completely and utterly skewed.

battries not included

Are landlords liable if tenant does not pay the water charges?

DamagedTrax

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

This is so condescending. I can assure you, poverty very much exists and it isn't how you painted it. Do know how I know? Because I came from such a place. I grew up in a one parent family in school, things were not easy. Lunch at time were just plain buttered bread. Walking around with holy shoes. Appliances at home broken waiting for a time to be able to repair them. No money for oil for heating and the oil burner was more a decoration in the kitchen. Far from shy packages and holidays we were thinking about. This was the late 90s. Poverty very much exists and just because it hasn't greeted you on your doorstep does it mean it's not there.

as someone quoted above (although i think they were trying to prove a lack of poverty here?!?!)

poverty is the inability of getting choices and opportunities, a violation of human dignity. It means lack of basic capacity to participate effectively in society. It means not having enough to feed and clothe a family, not having a school or clinic to go to, not having the land on which to grow one’s food or a job to earn one’s living, not having access to credit. It means insecurity, powerlessness and exclusion of individuals, households and communities. It means susceptibility to violence, and it often implies living in marginal or fragile environments, without access to clean water or sanitation

you only have to walk 2 minutes from where i live to see all of these things in action, possibly bar the sanitation.. although i wouldnt really be aware of that.

yipeeeee

geeksauce wrote: »

Never said it didn't exist in Ireland, my point was that a lot of the people I know that claim to be too poor to pay the Water Charges have a lot of luxuries in their homes that cost an awful lot more per annum than the water charges will cost. Their priorities are completely and utterly skewed.

And definitely not 750,000 like some are claiming.

DamagedTrax

battries not included wrote: »

Are landlords liable if tenant does not pay the water charges?

no. the landlord is asked to pass on contracts. bills or any correspondence but is not liable.

ROCKMAN

Question for the more knowledgeable on Irish Law /Constitution Law.


Now that Enda has said no to an Referendum ,
Is there any other way of forcing a referendum ???? Petition ,Court order etc etc

Lucy and Harry

yipeeeee wrote: »

No one in this country lives in poverty.

Go down to the local St Vincent De Paul and educate yourself in poverty in this country.Some people cant even put a dinner on the table at night...The Vinnies are giving poor people food Xmas..We have places in town where people go to be fed food daily as they do not have anything...



It will cost €20 billion to upgrade water/sewage. The government has not got that money. It is not possible for the government to borrow the €20 billion (20 thousand million) such is the state of the National Debt thanks to Michael's Party. If the government this year borrowed an extra €800 million to repair leaks et al , it would lead to a 4% rise in the higher rate of income tax according to Cliff Taylor. Not my words but Cliff Taylor's . Damn well Michael McGrath knows that. If he does not, he should not be a spokesman on Finance and should take a course in economics. If the issue is not tackled now it will never be tackled. During the Celtic Tiger period billions were wasted.

Is anybody happy with Denis O Briens involvement with IW.
Does anybody really think IW will sort out all the leaks.
Are people here happy with IW going private?
How come other utilities do not ask for PPS numbers of our children.
And when refused it is illegal to go being peoples backs to get this information.Bord Gais do not do it.!ESB do not do it!IW has threatened to get people evicted from their homes if they do not pay and effect their credit rating and bring people to court..And that bloody house charge was corrupt too saying they will take it out of your wages!Enda Kenny says a house tax is immoral and he will not do it to the people and then gets power and does it!!He is a snake!!

geeksauce

Banjo String wrote: »

Lol, that old cliché, all SW recipients livin it large in the canaries lol...

Ok, two examples.

A man on the street in Dublin. Homeless and penniless.
A man on the streets of and homeless and penniless.

Who is poorer?

Of Where?

It is hard to compare apples and oranges really, for example you want to compare a homeless man on the street in Dublin with a Homeless man on the street in say San Diego (I was in SD once and the place was full of homeless).

In the USA there is a group known as the 99er's these are people that have lost their jobs and go on to a payment similar to our Job Seekers Allowance, however unlike here in the USA you get this state support for a maximum of 99 weeks. After the 99 weeks the support is stopped so your only option is to get a job within the 99 week period or risk having no income, given recent economic events the likelihood of finding a job in the USA in 99 weeks was very low, meaning a lot of people couldn't afford their rent/mortgages and ultimately lost their homes and became homeless as a result.

In Ireland however, if you lose your job you can go on SW indefinitely for the rest of your life if you so choose. If you lose your home, the state will provide you with subsidised housing by way of Social Housing, or Emergency Accommodation until a more permanent fix can be found for you, this housing will be yours as long as you pay your subsidised rent. If not then you are at risk of losing your Social House, if this does happen the state will still assist you in securing accommodation and may even provide you with Rent Allowance again to help you pay for private rented accommodation.

Or if this is not possible they will attempt to find a place in a hostel for you run by many charitable organisations, however this hostel will basically be your last chance saloon at which point if you mess this up you will be evicted from the hostel and the state will more than likely decide that they can no longer do any more for you leaving you to source your own housing or live on the street.

See there is a major difference between Irelands homeless and many other countries homeless, in a lot of other countries the homeless would never have the opportunities afforded to the homeless in Ireland.

Banjo String

battries not included wrote: »

Are landlords liable if tenant does not pay the water charges?

Nope.

Landlord can't give his tenants name to IW (data protection) or sign you up either.

All they can do is keep giving their tenants the bill, but no repercussions to landlord if the tenant doesn't pay.

Foolproof plan.

Lucy and Harry

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Question for the more knowledgeable on Irish Law /Constitution Law.


Now that Enda has said no to an Referendum ,
Is there any other way of forcing a referendum ???? Petition ,Court order etc etc

Assassination.:pac:

We have a election soon and we will have our day.Revenge is a dish best served cold in the ballot box..

geeksauce

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Go down to the local St Vincent De Paul and educate yourself in poverty in this country.

Educate myself on the waste of money the St Vincent De Paul is and how abused a charity can be by those not deserving of the time of the people working their asses off for the charity and not deserving of the money donated by people to help those in need.

There are any number of stories of people abusing the SVdeP a thread of its own could be started and would be filled pretty quickly, we all hear the stories and the abuse of the charity by those not in need.

The people in actual poverty often lose out or go without because those not in need of charity have their hands out constantly.

DamagedTrax

geeksauce wrote: »

Educate myself on the waste of money the St Vincent De Paul is and how abused a charity can be by those not deserving of the time of the people working their asses off for the charity and not deserving of the money donated by people to help those in need.

There are any number of stories of people abusing the SVdeP a thread of its own could be started and would be filled pretty quickly, we all hear the stories and the abuse of the charity by those not in need.

The people in actual poverty often lose out or go without because those not in need of charity have their hands out constantly.

so because of a few scammers, poverty on a large scale in this country doesnt really exist?

thats grand so, IW must not exist as it's full to the brim with scammers.

DamagedTrax

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Now that Enda has said no to an Referendum ,
Is there any other way of forcing a referendum ???? Petition ,Court order etc etc

we have never had an 'ordinary' referendum in ireland so ive no idea how it gets the go ahead but this is where it will stem from

An ordinary referendum may take place when a proposal contained in a Bill is determined to be of such national importance that the will of the people thereon ought to be ascertained.

geeksauce

DamagedTrax wrote: »

so because of a few scammers, poverty on a large scale in this country doesnt really exist?

thats grand so, IW must not exist as it's full to the brim with scammers.

No Poverty on a large scale does not exist in Ireland, and it is more than a few scammers.

Lucy and Harry

geeksauce wrote: »

for the charity and not deserving of the money donated by people to help those in need.

There are any number of stories of people abusing the SVdeP a thread of its own could be started and would be filled pretty quickly, we all hear the stories and the abuse of the charity by those not in need.

The people in actual poverty often lose out or go

So now you admit there is poverty in Ireland after denying it and mocking them.Do you think IW getting people evicted and turning water to a trickle so people cant have showers and baths and washing machines will make people more poor??Some people cant afford 500 euro for water!!They live hand to mouth!!

No Poverty on a large scale does not exist in Ireland

This is what you think in your mind but in reality it exists.

DamagedTrax

geeksauce wrote: »

No Poverty on a large scale does not exist in Ireland, and it is more than a few scammers.

tell you what, you come down to certain parts of D8 (and other areas) and tell that to my neighbours.

you might wanna bring your expensive nikes though. for running away fast like.

geeksauce

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

So now you admit there is poverty in Ireland after denying it and mocking them.

Where did I deny it? Oh wait that's a question, are you sure you will be able to answer it? Damn it another one!!! I am still waiting an answer to the question I asked you on Monday.

geeksauce

DamagedTrax wrote: »

tell you what, you come down to certain parts of D8 (and other areas) and tell that to my neighbours.

you might wanna bring your expensive nikes though. for running away fast like.

I prefer Lacoste :pac: and I would probably just drive away:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Little CuChulainn

DamagedTrax wrote: »

tell you what, you come down to certain parts of D8 (and other areas) and tell that to my neighbours.

you might wanna bring your expensive nikes though. for running away fast like.

Your suggesting that poor people have a propensity towards violence?

Lucy and Harry

Quote:
Authors of Social Justice report question Irish government’s commitment to equality. Photo by: Getty

A new survey shows that 750,000 people in Ireland live in poverty – an increase of 120,000 since the collapse of the Celtic Tiger.

The report, commissioned by the Social Justice Ireland group, says that a quarter of those living in poverty are children.

It also states that 16 percent of adults living in poverty have jobs but are broke.

Announcing the results of its survey entitled "Poverty and Income Distribution," Social Justice Ireland was critical of the Irish government’s ‘commitment’ to equality.

The group highlighted that the top 10 percent of households in Ireland receive 24 percent of total disposable income while the bottom 10 percent received just three percent.

Fr Seán Healy, director of Social Justice Ireland, told the Irish Times: “These figures show a profound failure on the part of Government to protect the vulnerable during the crisis.

“The value of core social welfare payments has been eroded by inflation increases since 2010. Social Justice Ireland is proposing a €5 increase in core weekly social welfare payments in budget 2015 to go some way towards addressing this deficit in budget 2015.”
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/edu...r-Ireland.html


Are you even listening to facts and sources and links or just repeating the same buul you pulled from your ass.Saying there is No poverty in Ireland is bull crap.

DamagedTrax

geeksauce wrote: »

I prefer Lacoste :pac: and I would probably just drive away:pac::pac::pac::pac:

let them eat cake eh? good lad, showing yourself up for the self righteous snob you clearly are.