***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

yipeeeee

Once again

United Nations: Fundamentally, poverty is the inability of getting choices and opportunities, a violation of human dignity. It means lack of basic capacity to participate effectively in society. It means not having enough to feed and clothe a family, not having a school or clinic to go to, not having the land on which to grow one’s food or a job to earn one’s living, not having access to credit. It means insecurity, powerlessness and exclusion of individuals, households and communities. It means susceptibility to violence, and it often implies living in marginal or fragile environments, without access to clean water or sanitation.[9]

Now tell me 750,000 people in this country experience this?

DamagedTrax

yipeeeee wrote: »

Now tell me 750,000 people in this country experience this?

i may have missed an earlier post. who claimed this number or where does it come from?

geeksauce

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Nice deflection :eek:
And the rest of my post???

The rest of it? you mean the part where you highlighted a couple of my posts, me saying poverty in Ireland does not exist on a large scale and then another of my posts where I asked for some evidence that showed me saying poverty in Ireland does not exist.

I thought you were supporting my claim that I didn't say poverty in Ireland doesn't exist as you highlighted a post where I clearly acknowledge that poverty in Ireland does exist just not on a large scale.

Lucy and Harry

yipeeeee wrote: »

Once again

United Nations: Fundamentally, poverty is the inability of getting choices and opportunities, a violation of human dignity. It means lack of basic capacity to participate effectively in society. It means not having enough to feed and clothe a family, not having a school or clinic to go to, not having the land on which to grow one’s food or a job to earn one’s living, not having access to credit. It means insecurity, powerlessness and exclusion of individuals, households and communities. It means susceptibility to violence, and it often implies living in marginal or fragile environments, without access to clean water or sanitation.[9]

Now tell me 750,000 people in this country experience this?

More than one in four children have been left on or below the poverty line since the economy crashed, according to an international study on the impact of the recession.

Child poverty rates jumped from 18% to 28.6% between 2008 and 2012 — an increase of 130,000 that brought the number of children living in hardship here to 350,000.

That puts Ireland in 37th place out of 41 developed countries ranked by Unicef according to how well they’ve managed to insulate children from the impact of the global economic crisis.

According to Unicef, median Irish family income has regressed 10 years.


YIPEEE YOU HAVE BEEN DEBUNKED

Lucy and Harry

geeksauce wrote: »

I clearly acknowledge that poverty in Ireland does exist just not on a large scale.

You said '' REAL POVERTY IN IRELAND'' does not exist.

Quote:
No but there is Irish poverty and then there is actual poverty.

Well now you have been proven wrong about poverty you can admit you are wrong.Also your posts seem to be mocking poor people.
You have been quoted as saying ''real poverty does not exist'' but it does and you were wrong and have been proven wrong.

Do you think turning water down on these poor people that you know admit exist will help their situation.Are you going to actually answer a question or just dodge things.

geeksauce

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

More than one in four children have been left on or below the poverty line since the economy crashed, according to an international study on the impact of the recession.

Child poverty rates jumped from 18% to 28.6% between 2008 and 2012 — an increase of 130,000 that brought the number of children living in hardship here to 350,000.

That puts Ireland in 37th place out of 41 developed countries ranked by Unicef according to how well they’ve managed to insulate children from the impact of the global economic crisis.

According to Unicef, median Irish family income has regressed 10 years.

Any chance of seeing something to back up your lies? I wont ask again as this will only derail the thread and annoy people, but hows about in future when you claim I said something you actually have something ready to back it up, you see if you don't have anything to back up your claims you are basically just lying.

Little CuChulainn

DamagedTrax wrote: »

firstly thanks for not trying to play down his PA, that kinda bs does nothing to help this discussion on either side.

onto your question - do you think he wouldnt be chased out of certain areas for claiming it? i dont know who'd he'd have to run faster than, aul ones with rolling pins or a forgotten portion of the youth of the country.

i certainly wouldnt do it but that would be more out of a respect for humanity than fear.

I think you and I have a different opinion of who is in poverty. You look at the rougher areas and you probably see them as living in poverty. In actual fact they likely have more in the way of local services and facilities as well as luxury items than you or I. The real people struggling on the poverty line tend to be decent folk who wouldn't stoop to violence because of something so minor.

geeksauce

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Well now you have been proven wrong about poverty you can admit you are wrong.Also your posts seem to be mocking poor people.
You have been quoted as saying ''real poverty does not exist'' but it does and you were wrong and have been proven wrong.

Do you think turning water down on these poor people that you know admit exist will help their situation.Are you going to actually answer a question or just dodge things.

ha ha ha are you actually serious?

Lucy and Harry

geeksauce wrote: »

Ok I will try again seeing as you are now making another unsubstantiated claim, (seriously why do you keep doing it). Can you please quote a post where I denied that people go to bed hungry. Seriously please quote it or stop making stuff up.

You said real poverty does not exist in IRELAND.You have been quoted as saying this.Now if that is true and real poverty does not exist as you claimed then people are not going to bed hungry in Ireland as that would be real poverty.

No but there is Irish poverty and then there is actual poverty.

Irish poverty being people moaning about not being able to afford water charges while sitting at home watching sky and spending all day updating facebook on their iPads, then taking a break from it all and heading off to Spain for two weeks of the year, their biggest worry being what will happen their SW payments if they aren't in the country to sign for them.

Real poverty exists in Ireland and that is people going to bed hungry.You claim real poverty in Ireland is people not having sky tv and Spanish holidays.I think you have been caught out and people can see it.

geeksauce

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

You said real poverty does not exist in IRELAND.You have been quoted as saying this.Now if that is true and real poverty does not exist as you claimed then people are not going to bed hungry in Ireland as that would be real poverty.


Real poverty exists in Ireland and that is people going to bed hungry.You claim real poverty in Ireland is people not having sky tv and Spanish holidays.I think you have been caught out and people can see it.

Where did I say real poverty does not exist? You can quote the post where I said it thanks.

Also, you can quote the post where I denied people go to bed hungry, thanks. I don't think I ever mentioned anything about people going to bed hungry, well not until you claimed I did and I asked you to show me where I made this claim.

yipeeeee

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i may have missed an earlier post. who claimed this number or where does it come from?

From few pages back.

Authors of Social Justice report question Irish government’s commitment to equality. Photo by: Getty

A new survey shows that 750,000 people in Ireland live in poverty – an increase of 120,000 since the collapse of the Celtic Tiger.

Lucy and Harry

geeksauce wrote: »

The rest of it? you mean the part where you highlighted a couple of my posts, me saying poverty in Ireland does not exist on a large scale and then another of my posts where I asked for some evidence that showed me saying poverty in Ireland does not exist.

I thought you were supporting my claim that I didn't say poverty in Ireland doesn't exist as you highlighted a post where I clearly acknowledge that poverty in Ireland does exist just not on a large scale.

YOU ALSO SAID real Poverty does not exist.Do you know retract that and admit real poverty exists.Admit your mistake.Admit people go to bed hungry in some homes in this country.And admit IW turning the water down to a trickle will hurt these people.

Lucy and Harry

yipeeeee wrote: »

From few pages back.

Authors of Social Justice report question Irish government’s commitment to equality. Photo by: Getty

A new survey shows that 750,000 people in Ireland live in poverty – an increase of 120,000 since the collapse of the Celtic Tiger.

and you deny these people live in Poverty.You know better than a survey made by experts.Do you think cutting water to a trickle will help poor people?

Lucy and Harry

geeksauce wrote: »

Where did I say real poverty does not exist? You can quote the post where I said it thanks.

Also, you can quote the post where I denied people go to bed hungry, thanks. I don't think I ever mentioned anything about people going to bed hungry, well not until you claimed I did and I asked you to show me where I made this claim.

I keep quoting you but you pretend not to see it.How strange.

No but there is Irish poverty and then there is actual poverty.

Irish poverty being people moaning about not being able to afford water charges while sitting at home watching sky and spending all day updating facebook on their iPads, then taking a break from it all and heading off to Spain for two weeks of the year, their biggest worry being what will happen their SW payments if they aren't in the country to sign for them.

Can you see this quote?DO I NEED TO USE LARGER FONTS?You are saying Irish poverty is not real poverty.That is implying it does not exist as real poverty.You say real poverty does not exit well it does and is not people who cant go to Spain as you insultingly make out.It is people going to bed hungry.Now answer do you think IW cutting their water will help ease the suffering of these people.

Any chance of seeing something to back up your lies

what lies.It seems that I am doing all you ask but you still have not answered do you think IW will help these people who are poor by cutting off their water.I posted you saying REAL poverty does not exist in Ireland.All can see it.They can make up their own minds.You are looking unable to debate .

ROCKMAN

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I think you and I have a different opinion of who is in poverty. You look at the rougher areas and you probably see them as living in poverty. In actual fact they likely have more in the way of local services and facilities as well as luxury items than you or I. The real people struggling on the poverty line tend to be decent folk who wouldn't stoop to violence because of something so minor.

Am I reading this right you are actually painting everyone from a disadvantage /rougher area with the same brush and stating they are better off with all mod cons etc etc,
Also will you clear up our views on decent folk because your post seems to state that they would not be found in these areas.

yipeeeee

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

and you deny these people live in Poverty.You know better than a survey made by experts.Do you think cutting water to a trickle will help poor people?

Yes I am denying that this amount lives in poverty.

Its a report done to make the government look bad with exaggerated figures and hyperbole.

The likes Mary Lou and Claire daly would come out with.

Populist.

Martha_Mae

If no one was to register or provide any personal info, they can penalise us all... It's an experiment, so it's more about reacting rather than anything else.

Lucy and Harry

YIPEEEE
The EU is SAYING IT AND AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL ARE THEY OWNED BY MARY LOU.


https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2F750000-are-now-living-in-poverty-265582.html&ei=DhFaVP_1LaiV7AaCyYHYCA&usg=AFQjCNF2yR_gKmZpwXsLUB0uSpja-ISznA&sig2=jqdf-_OboHOfSgUAF30CEA&bvm=bv.78677474,d.ZGU here is the Irish Examiner paper they are saying it.Are they owned by Mary Lou>?

More than 750,000 people are living in poverty in Ireland, including 220,000 children and 68,740 pensioners — with the gap between the poorest and richest increasing since the recession began.

Latest details from the CSO show that in 2012, the most up-to-date figures available, 756,591 people were living in poverty in Ireland.

The rate includes 68,740 people over the age of 65 and 220,411 under the age of 18, highlighting the wide-reaching impact of a half-a-decade long recession on the population.

Between 2007 and 2012, the number of Irish people living in “consistent poverty” almost doubled, from 4.2% of the population to 7.7%. Those experiencing two or more forms of “enforced deprivation” almost trebled during the same era, from 11% to 27%.

The “poverty” and “deprivation” figures are based on a series of daily problems including:

* The number of people who went without heating at some stage in the past 12 months (6% in 2007, 12.9% in 2012);

* The number unable to afford new clothes (5.2% in 2007, 10.4% in 2012);

* The number unable to eat a meal with meat, chicken or fish every second day (2.2% in 2007, 3.9% in 2012);

* Those unable to afford to replace worn-out furniture (13.8% in 2007, 24.5% in 2012).

The CSO files also show that in the same period, the gap between the richest and poorest 20% of the population increased by more than 11%.

Meanwhile, the CSO show that 6% of people working in 2012 were still living in poverty, and that half of people living in below average private rented accommodation are at risk of poverty.

Social Protection Minister Joan Burton said the report highlights the “critical importance” of the social welfare “safety net” — namely jobseeker allowance, child benefit and State pension payments — in “protecting people against poverty”.

However, Social Justice Ireland director, Dr Sean Healy, said the figures are damning reading for all parties which have been in power since the recession began.

* The full CSO Survey on Income and Living Conditions report can be read at the link provided.

geeksauce

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

I keep quoting you but you pretend not to see it.How strange.

Can you see this quote?DO I NEED TO USE LARGER FONTS?You are saying Irish poverty is not real poverty.That is implying it does not exist as real poverty.You say real poverty does not exit well it does and is not people who cant go to Spain as you insultingly make out.It is people going to bed hungry.Now answer do you think IW cutting their water will help ease the suffering of these people.

what lies.It seems that I am doing all you ask but you still have not answered do you think IW will help these people who are poor by cutting off their water.I posted you saying REAL poverty does not exist in Ireland.All can see it.They can make up their own minds.You are looking unable to debate .

It's not that strange and I am not pretending to not see it as you still haven't shown me any quote from me where I say poverty in Ireland does not exist, you also need to show me a quote of mine where I denied people go to bed hungry. This must be the fifth or sixth time I have asked you about this?

And there is no point using larger fonts either as using larger fonts doesn't actually change the words written in the quote it only makes the existing ones bigger.

Little CuChulainn

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Am I reading this right you are actually painting everyone from a disadvantage /rougher area with the same brush and stating they are better off with all mod cons etc etc,

Pick a rough area and investigate the local services available to it. You'll find that there are a lot. If poverty is described as a lack of choice or option then the majority of people in these areas do not fall into it for any other reason than choice.

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Also will you clear up our views on decent folk because your post seems to state that they would not be found in these areas.

Decent folk who are genuinely struggling can be found anywhere in the country and some of them will be unfortunate enough to have to live amongst the other people mentioned above.

yipeeeee

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

YIPEEEE
The EU is SAYING IT AND AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL ARE THEY OWNED BY MARY LOU.


https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2F750000-are-now-living-in-poverty-265582.html&ei=DhFaVP_1LaiV7AaCyYHYCA&usg=AFQjCNF2yR_gKmZpwXsLUB0uSpja-ISznA&sig2=jqdf-_OboHOfSgUAF30CEA&bvm=bv.78677474,d.ZGU here is the Irish Examiner paper they are saying it.Are they owned by Mary Lou>?

And tell me how they came to this even 750,000.

Did they visit each home in Ireland and spend time with each family and notice them going to bed hungry.

Stop would ya.

Figures just plucked out of a few surveys.

Valetta

There are plenty of people in Ireland living in poverty.

However, for the most part it is a lifestyle choice.

Ireland's social welfare structures and levels of payment are such that nobody needs to exist in poverty.

Unfortunatley the government do not control how social payments are spent.

Lucy and Harry

Are you stoned or on the sauce can you not follow?You said real poverty does not exist in Ireland.You have been quoted as saying that.By saying real poverty does not exist you are denying poverty which is people going to bed hungry.Real poverty is people going to bed hungry now if people like that exist how can you say NO REAL POVERTY EXISTS IN IRELAND.Will you now retract what you said about REAL POVERTY EXISTING IN IRELAND.You say Irish poverty is people not going to Spain and not having Sky TV.That is insulting to all the poor people in Ireland.

Decent folk who are genuinely struggling can be found anywhere in the country and some of them will be unfortunate enough to have to live amongst the other people mentioned above.

Must be terrible living near poor people.Bet you do not have this issue living in Blackrock.

yipeeeee

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

YIPEEEE
The EU is SAYING IT AND AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL ARE THEY OWNED BY MARY LOU.


https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2F750000-are-now-living-in-poverty-265582.html&ei=DhFaVP_1LaiV7AaCyYHYCA&usg=AFQjCNF2yR_gKmZpwXsLUB0uSpja-ISznA&sig2=jqdf-_OboHOfSgUAF30CEA&bvm=bv.78677474,d.ZGU here is the Irish Examiner paper they are saying it.Are they owned by Mary Lou>?

Ok so reading that the way they have worked it out is, if you can't afford new clothes or furniture at some stage then you are in poverty?????

Are you kidding me????

It then says the actual figure for poverty on a daily basis is 4%.

So not the 25% you claimed.

That report is laughable.

Lucy and Harry

Valetta wrote: »

There are plenty of people in Ireland living in poverty.

However, for the most part it is a lifestyle choice.

Ireland's social welfare structures and levels of payment are such that nobody needs to exist in poverty.

Unfortunatley the government do not control how social payments are spent.

I agree some bring it on themselves.
We have alcoholics and drug addicts that prefer to shoot up rather than feed their kids.These kids grow up in poverty and it is hard to grow out of poverty for some as the charity add says on those posters.

Lucy and Harry

yipeeeee wrote: »

Figures just plucked out of a few surveys.

Maybe we should believe you over experts.What qualifications do you have maybe you could make a survey yourself??Can you tell me do you think IW cutting off water to a trickle will help the poor people.

yipeeeee

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Maybe we should believe you over experts.What qualifications do you have maybe you could make a survey yourself??Can you tell me do you think IW cutting off water to a trickle will help the poor people.

I actually think Irish water has made a mess of things and they can't cut people to a trickle.

I was more discussing the ridiculous poverty figures been thrown around.

DamagedTrax

yipeeeee wrote: »

Ok so reading that the way they have worked it out is, if you can't afford new clothes or furniture at some stage then you are in poverty?????

Are you kidding me????

It then says the actual figure for poverty on a daily basis is 4%.

So not the 25% you claimed.

That report is laughable.

i'd have to agree. but then i suppose there are varying levels of poverty. 750,000 does seem a fair bit higher than i would have thought but then i dont do these surveys, so who knows.

ROCKMAN

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Pick a rough area and investigate the local services available to it. You'll find that there are a lot. If poverty is described as a lack of choice or option then the majority of people in these areas do not fall into it for any other reason than choice.



Decent folk who are genuinely struggling can be found anywhere in the country and some of them will be unfortunate enough to have to live amongst the other people mentioned above.

Thank you for clearing that up ,But the one thing I would strongly argue against is your claim about local services ,
Local services and support Projects /Groups Nationwide have had their funding nearly wiped out over the last 8 years and have been the one off /if not the worst hit area since the recession started, In most areas these support services are barely surviving .

renegademaster

yipeeeee wrote: »

And tell me how they came to this even 750,000.

Did they visit each home in Ireland and spend time with each family and notice them going to bed hungry.

Stop would ya.

Figures just plucked out of a few surveys.

http://www.creditunion.ie/communications/news/2014/title,8454,en.php

"DISPOSABLE INCOME

The research results for the second round of the tracker in 2014 indicate that disposable income continues to increase slowly for the population, with working adults enjoying the strongest growth. The improving trend shows us that there has been a drop in the number of people who say their disposable income has decreased over the past year (64% in July 2013 v 50% in July 2014).

1.623 million people have €100 or less left at the end of the month once all the bills are paid, a decrease 73,000 on the March 2014 figure of 1.696 million.

1.140 million have €50 or less left at the end of the month once all the bills are paid, this represents a decrease of 14,000 on the March 2014 figure of 1.154 million."