***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Irishcrx

The whole thing is very very frustrating.

I'd love to see everyone not paying , upsurging the whole Irish water implementation , the law being on our side etc etc.

But look , this battle is already lost. They've invested heavily in the company and private company or not in one way or another after the dust of the initial few month's settles , they will get there way. The government in one way or another cannot have this fail and will do something to ensure everyone is paying or punished for it. I wouldn't even be surprised to see them change the law in some way to enforce this.

Is it fair? No
Should we be paying for a poor water supply? No
Do we already pay enough taxes and charges? Oh yes
Should we be told exactly what the contract entails and what we are being charged well in advance? Oh yes
Do Irish water or the government care less? Oh no

It's a done deal lads, sorry but to all these people posting the letters back with 'no contract' on it or tempering with the meters it is going to come back and haunt you, you'll either loose your entitlements or end up in court paying arrears , back payments and fines.

It sucks but that's the truth and deep down everyone here knows that's what's going to happen in the end.

VinLieger

Draco wrote: »

Wrong. Water is no longer paid out of central funds. Your taxes do not cover it. The property tax does not cover it (which is what actually goes to the councils these days). There is no reduction in taxes as there's a giant hole in the public finances that need to be filled (and no, it's not just the banking debt).


You are not paying for a 2nd time. You have paid through central taxes for water you have previously used. You will pay Irish water for water you use in the future.

Water is not free. Water treatment is not free. Maintenance of infrastructure is not free. New infrastructure is not free. The government is no longer paying these out of central funds, instead you are paying directly for them. This is not rocket science.

I agree that water is not free but the fact is that I previously paid for it through other taxes and now I am paying for it another way means the burden that has been removed from the public finances as regards the cost of providing water should also be removed from my tax burden as well.

Geuze

VinLieger wrote: »

But we are all already paying for the service. Councils previously were responsible for managing the water. They paid for it using our taxes and yet there has not been a reduction in taxes now they are no longer managing the water systems.

Yes, we did cover the 1bn+ cost of the 1000+ treatment plants out of taxes AND borrowing.

In order to reduce our fiscal deficit, we must raise taxes/cut spending.

Not nice, but that's what we have to do.

We should not have taken on 30-35bn of debt associated with Anglo/IBRC, but we did, so now we must pay interest on that odious debt. Sickening.

So your water charge payment will replace previous central Govt spending.

Geuze

I'm all for water charges and property taxes.

But I'm against 52% MTR on wages over 32,800, that rate should be reserved for 100,000+.

I'm also against too high VAT at 23%.


I'm also against the very low income taxes on some people.

Idbatterim

will keep this short and sweet! Not metering and paying for water, is actually off the wall, only in Ireland as they would say and its true when you compare us to any of our comparable peers. Water doesnt just arrive at your tap and ultimately and understandably no one gives a sh*t about how much they use or conservation when its free.

I'm all for water charges and property taxes.

But I'm against 52% MTR on wages over 32,800, that rate should be reserved for 100,000+.

I'm also against too high VAT at 23%.

I'm also against the very low income taxes on some people.

couldnt agree with you more on the above points!

the 52% is immoral and off the wall, the rate should be linked to your income, low income, low incomes taxes, medium income at medium rate say 30-40%, high income say 100+ maybe 45% and very high income (we could argue over what that is) maybe high 40's, why the hell should those parasites be earning more than you on a portion of your income?!

Took a read of this earlier, off the wall and from someone who runs a business and deals b2b on a daily basis, I have first hand experience of just how damaging that high a rate is 52% marginal rate on that mickey mouse of an income, i.e. E32,800!

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/experts-call-for-easing-of-high-tax-burden-on-thousands-of-workers-30610682.html

Little CuChulainn

VinLieger wrote: »

I agree that water is not free but the fact is that I previously paid for it through other taxes and now I am paying for it another way means the burden that has been removed from the public finances as regards the cost of providing water should also be removed from my tax burden as well.

I use to get any prescription charges over €78 a month paid for by the government. This was paid for by the taxes I paid. The government now only pays for presciptions above €132 per month even though I pay more taxes now than then. By your logic I should just take the drugs from the pharmacy, pay them €78 and tell them to bill the government for the rest.

Idbatterim

Either way, they are going to get the money one way or another, given the shambles of not paying water and the pathetic underinvestment in it since the foundation of the state and particularly the bertie years, when money was flying around like confetti, this is one way of them getting it, that I am happy to go along with...

recylingbin

I need to be clean for work. This involves showering, brushing teeth, shaving, etc. I'm pretty certain that if I didn't do these things, I would be fired.
Will I be able to claim the water charge back against tax?

folan

recylingbin wrote: »

I need to be clean for work. This involves showering, brushing teeth, shaving, etc. I'm pretty certain that if I didn't do these things, I would be fired.

try them.

AnonoBoy

recylingbin wrote: »

Will I be able to claim the water charge back against tax?

Definitely.

It works in the same way that claiming your groceries back against tax does on the basis that if you don't eat you will die and will be unable to work.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Get fired. Take up a 40 hour job bridge and you still have to be clean. Get your dole an extra €50 euro a week where the €50 doesn't barely cover your travel expenses.

Ireland makes sense.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Going by the smelly cnuts on the bus now, it won't be long until everyone stops washing themselves.

irelandrover

Do you claim back all the other items such as shower gel, shaving foam, tooth brush back against tax

Idbatterim

Going by the smelly cnuts on the bus now, it won't be long until everyone stops washing themselves.

The smelly ones on the bus are highly likely to be the ones paying for nothing, I'm sure water will be same?

cajonlardo

No.

But if you are a minister you can have €3,500 for your dry cleaning.
Sort of thing that would make anyone lose touch with reality and wonder why people can't afford a few hundred here and there. Plus, if you were a minister and did come up short, print of any old invoice and make a claim. Not like you will do real jail time for fraud.

Recondite49

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I use to get any prescription charges over €78 a month paid for by the government. This was paid for by the taxes I paid. The government now only pays for presciptions above €132 per month even though I pay more taxes now than then. By your logic I should just take the drugs from the pharmacy, pay them €78 and tell them to bill the government for the rest.

Classic whataboutery - it is wrong to charge someone like you for prescriptions if they're paying more tax than before ; it's also wrong to charge for water.

Waterboutery?? I'm so witty... :-D

Old boardie22

Thanks for the good laugh... (Couple of posts up). "And no, nothing to do with bank debt" Yeah right.. Country is broke.. And it's nothing to do with the bank debt, criminally run up with no one going to jail, us paying for it... And water is a human right thank you very much.. The government has NO place trying to charge for it...
Public service that's getting more expensive with actually no service being provided.. This country's fast becoming a joke

Some posters here seem to have a happiness about this whole thing..

Cantona's Collars

You should see the size of the stand they have at the Ploughing Championships,who's paying for that?

Another waste of money as the vast majority attending have their own wells or are on group water schemes.

SOR2010

Since Water & Property tax are no longer been paid for through our income tax why not reduce it accordingly.

The gov did the same thing with refuse collection, it was covered by your taxes then they privatised it and we all had to pay for our collections,

So what exactly does our Income tax cover?
Prsi - covers you to waith 10 hours in A&E & 18 months to see a consultant
Usc - to make you feel good
Road Tax isn't speng on Roads
Property Tax is for services but does not include water
Water is actually for Water

So we pay Income tax to listen to 200 fools live the high life....

Where does it end

humanji

Threads merged.

whisky_galore

zerks wrote: »

You should see the size of the stand they have at the Ploughing Championships,who's paying for that?

Another waste of money as the vast majority attending have their own wells or are on group water schemes.

The farmers that are connected to the main already pay for water as it's a business. Now they're going to lose the domestic allowance and have to have ANOTHER meter installed. Two bills coming in the door. :rolleyes:

dashcamdanny

Say if you wanted to run a bath or water the garden for a few hours.

Whats stopping you from removing the meter, screwing the cap on and re installing it after you have used a large amount..

As far as I can see, they simply screw off and on.

seamus

Banjo String wrote: »

A judge would be granted access to a defendants internet activities, based on a missing meter from Irish Water.

What is this sorcery

They don't need to be legally granted access to it. You'd be surprised how easily most people are traceable across the web using publicly-available information.

Many utilities (and insurance companies in particular) are not slow to hire private investigators when things get to the court case stage. And yes, their investigations are admissible in court provided that the sources of that information are public.

I'm not saying that obezyana is screwed, he may as well pay up. But if you're planning on doing this kind of thing, you need to be wary of your trail across the web.

For example, with just my name & address, a semi-competent P.I. could locate my boards account in less than 24 hours. Even though my name isn't seamus.

I'm not scaremongering here, in reality I'm actually instructing people on how to be more confident of getting away with tampering...

Leroy42

SOR2010, you forgot to mention dole, pensions, medical cards, charity, foreign aid, running minicipal services such as lighting, road signs etc.

And we don't pay road tax, we pay Motor Tax, a tax on the motor you use.

If it makes people feel better about paying for water, don't think of it as paying for the water itself, but simple call that free and double the amount charged for waste.

Water may be a human right, but disposing of your waste into the rivers untreated certainly isn't.

Little CuChulainn

Recondite49 wrote: »

Classic whataboutery - it is wrong to charge someone like you for prescriptions if they're paying more tax than before ; it's also wrong to charge for water.

Waterboutery?? I'm so witty... :-D

It may be wrong but that doesn't mean I can get my prescription without paying the difference. It's not whataboutery, it's an analogy.

Old boardie22

Rubbish into the rivers..? Don't know where your living...
No I won't think of it as paying double waste charge..
Fake environmentalism.. Not the common man chopping down the worlds forrests. Not the common man dumping toxic chemicals and even nuclear waste in the rivers and seas. Not the common man poisoning the land and our food with toxic chemicals...

So tell me.. Why are we paying for it again..? And all the bollox talk about tax.. If I here any more ill crack up.. It the richest people on the planet not paying their taxes, with their hedge funds and so called charitable foundations (meaning, where they hide their money from the tax man). Also they're the biggest recipients from the banker bailouts, even though they weren't owed a penny, Again. We pay for it...
Sorry. Someone earning 250.000 a year is not rich..

We live in a country that bloody rains constantly and they can't have resovoirs for catching the bloody stuff..? They do in England..

It's disgusting plane and simple..
Next we'll be getting charged for breathing air..

SOR2010

Leroy42 wrote: »

SOR2010, you forgot to mention dole, pensions, medical cards, charity, foreign aid, running minicipal services such as lighting, road signs etc.

And we don't pay road tax, we pay Motor Tax, a tax on the motor you use.

If it makes people feel better about paying for water, don't think of it as paying for the water itself, but simple call that free and double the amount charged for waste.

Water may be a human right, but disposing of your waste into the rivers untreated certainly isn't.

My attempt at Sarcasm didn't come across so

I have no problem paying for Water once I'm getting good quality water, at the moment I have to soften mine as it's too hard,

That said I don't understand why we the people are being asked to pay so much for this privilege,
Irish Water will charge us €4.88 per m3 while Kildare Co Co charge Commercial clients €1.59 per m3 for the same water, Clare Co Co charge €3.04 per m3

When metered it won't be hard for an average household to see their usage go to 100m3 per year after their allowance's so they can expect a bill for €488 a far cry from the average of €240 as put out...

Timberrrrrrrr

Old boardie22 wrote: »

Rubbish into the rivers..? Don't know where your living...
No I won't think of it as paying double waste charge..
Fake environmentalism.. Not the common man chopping down the worlds forrests. Not the common man dumping toxic chemicals and even nuclear waste in the rivers and seas. Not the common man poisoning the land and our food with toxic chemicals...

So tell me.. Why are we paying for it again..? And all the bollox talk about tax.. If I here any more ill crack up.. It the richest people on the planet not paying their taxes, with their hedge funds and so called charitable foundations (meaning, where they hide their money from the tax man). Also they're the biggest recipients from the banker bailouts, even though they weren't owed a penny, Again. We pay for it...
Sorry. Someone earning 250.000 a year is not rich..

We live in a country that bloody rains constantly and they can't have resovoirs for catching the bloody stuff..? They do in England..

It's disgusting plane and simple..
Next we'll be getting charged for breathing air..

You know how rainfall works right? And if things in England work so well (same rainfall as us i would guess) why do they have a hosepipe ban and drought warnings most summers?

Idbatterim

And it's nothing to do with the bank debt, criminally run up with no one going to jail, us paying for it... And water is a human right thank you very much.. The government has NO place trying to charge for it...
Public service that's getting more expensive with actually no service being provided.. This country's fast becoming a joke

Some posters here seem to have a happiness about this whole thing..

A human right, how are they getting away with charging it in every other developed country then? No one will agree disagree with you about the bank debt, but what about the other countless ongoing billions down the swanney, courtesy of Ahern and Co? thats up there in terms of disgrace in my opinion!

Watch the amount of water being wasted in houses plummet! The hysteria is hilarious!

Larbre34

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You know how rainfall works right? And if things in England work so well (same rainfall as us i would guess) why do they have a hosepipe ban and drought warnings most summers?

No actually their rainfall pattern is quite different, especially in the south of England, where there are 25 Million people straining their water supply.