***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Nib

Leroy42 wrote: »

What sort of aily usage woud be the average?

About 150 itres.

Leroy42

150 litres. So on the meter reading this would be 150 in the red numbers?

Banjo String

Anyone seen who Irish waters big fancy stand is right next to at the ploughing ......



Brilliant. :D:D

Timberrrrrrrr

CLMC80 wrote: »

When I return the envelope unopened I believe the next step for irish water is for them to turn down my pressure and withdraw my "free allowance". How do I get my pressure back without paying them? And at that stage I've lost my allowances? ??

No

The next step is for them to bill you the flat rate.

Phoebas

CLMC80 wrote: »

When I return the envelope unopened I believe the next step for irish water is for them to turn down my pressure and withdraw my "free allowance". How do I get my pressure back without paying them? And at that stage I've lost my allowances? ??

They won't withdraw your free allowance - if you don't fill in the form to request a free allowance you just won't have one in the first place.
They won't reduce pressure at least until you fail to pay the bill.

After that you can turn it back up by illegally tampering with IW equipment - they'll obviously spot this very quickly on subsequent reads of the meter.

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

They won't withdraw your free allowance - if you don't fill in the form to request a free allowance you just won't have one in the first place.
They won't reduce pressure at least until you fail to pay the bill.

After that you can turn it back up by illegally tampering with IW equipment - they'll obviously spot this very quickly on subsequent reads of the meter .

If they read it manually, (rather than estimate it) as often as my electric or gas meter gets read, that could be one hell of a gap between reads.

On that, what's to stop people in unfinished estates swapping meters at random with unoccupied houses in the same Estate (even for a week at a time)

I've seen videos on how to remove meters, doesn't look tricky tbh.

Little CuChulainn

Banjo String wrote: »

If they read it manually, (rather than estimate it) as often as my electric or gas meter gets read, that could be one hell of a gap between reads.

On that, what's to stop people in unfinished estates swapping meters at random with unoccupied houses in the same Estate (even for a week at a time)

I've seen videos on how to remove meters, doesn't look tricky tbh.

They'll read it regularly. It's much faster and easier than normal meters. They just drive past your house and it's read remotely.

seamus

Banjo String wrote: »

If they read it manually, (rather than estimate it) as often as my electric or gas meter gets read, that could be one hell of a gap between reads.

On that, what's to stop people in unfinished estates swapping meters at random with unoccupied houses in the same Estate (even for a week at a time)

I've seen videos on how to remove meters, doesn't look tricky tbh.

The read is actually a drive-by read. The meters have a small transmitting unit attached, so the meter reader literally just has to drive around the area while his scanner and laptop collect all the data.
This should in theory mean that meters readings will be more frequent than with gas or electricity, a single meter reader could probably collect 10,000+ readings in a single day.

Though it's still cheaper to estimate and do every second reading, so they might go with that.

I had a look at the transmitter units last night, and they come with a tamper alert built in. So anyone thinking of "disabling" the unit or swapping it out with their neighbour's will be detected on the next meter reading.

Technologically, reading this data and resetting the tamper alarm is trivial, but the hardware costs €2,000+. So unless you manage to make good friends with a water meter man the only thing you can do is make the meter disappear. But of course, they'll notice that too.

Recondite49

The fairness about paying for water from taxes, as has already been pointed out is that those who have less, won't be taxed as much.

eeepaulo

If i didnt like my neighbour, could i just remove their meter and wait for the law to kick in?

Recondite49

seamus wrote:

I'm not scaremongering here, in reality I'm actually instructing people on how to be more confident of getting away with tampering...

Think I'll take my chances if it's all the same to you. But anyone who's interested in ways to disguise your digital foot print, please feel free to check out the Information Security section of Boards.

Recondite49

Old boardie22 wrote:

Thanks for the good laugh... (Couple of posts up). "And no, nothing to do with bank debt" Yeah right.. Country is broke.. And it's nothing to do with the bank debt, criminally run up with no one going to jail, us paying for it... And water is a human right thank you very much.. The government has NO place trying to charge for it... Public service that's getting more expensive with actually no service being provided.. This country's fast becoming a joke

You're right OB, well said!

A lot of this smugness seems to come from the inability to recognise that for some people, even sparing an extra twenty a month would be a burden, particularly given how these charges apply uniformly to everyone and as has been pointed out above, our extortionate rate of income tax isn't going down accordingly.

The best we can hope for now is that enough people do as I and other posters are advocating and simply refuse to register or pay, as soon as collections exceed the cost of the charges maybe they'll rethink barbaric laws like these.

Monife

Have they confirmed how much it will be for non-metered apartments?

Also, have they confirmed the list of medical illnesses. I have arthritis therefore use more water for hot showers/baths/extra heating to alleviate pain/swelling. Would this be included?

De Bellem

Just had a look at the Application Form sent out by Irish Water and and I am wondering about Q3 on the form.
Irish Water asks the applicant to tick either being the owner or the tenant of the property. I am neither as I am not the full owner of the property as it is joint names. I own half of the property. So if I were to fill this form would I be making a misleading , legally untrue and false declaration .

Phoebas

Banjo String wrote: »

If they read it manually, (rather than estimate it) as often as my electric or gas meter gets read, that could be one hell of a gap between reads.

But they're not reading them in the same way as gas and electric. They are going to proximity read them by driving by.
You can expect them to be read at least once per billing period.

Banjo String wrote: »

On that, what's to stop people in unfinished estates swapping meters at random with unoccupied houses in the same Estate (even for a week at a time)

I've seen videos on how to remove meters, doesn't look tricky tbh.

No doubt the criminal classes will continue to commit crime.

knarkypants

Monife wrote: »

Have they confirmed how much it will be for non-metered apartments?

Also, have they confirmed the list of medical illnesses. I have arthritis therefore use more water for hot showers/baths/extra heating to alleviate pain/swelling. Would this be included?

Plans for extra allowances/discounts for medical illness has been scrapped for at least 2 years.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irish-water-defers-list-of-illnesses-for-discounts-288545.html

Satriale

Phoebas wrote: »

No doubt the criminal classes will continue to commit crime.

Why would they? With their cushy jobs in government.

Banjo String

Looks like the data commissioner shares some of the fears regarding transparency, and the vagueness of Irish Waters intentions.

The collection of the PPSN for use by Irish Water in verifying occupants of
a household is provided for in legislation. We are satisfied from this
Office’s interactions with Irish Water that it is intended to use the PPSN
for the sole purpose of confirming the qualification for a free water
allowance of occupants of the household (including children) and in line
with conditions set down for its use by the Department of Social
Protection. However, we are in agreement that the Data Protection Notice
published does not currently give sufficient clarity and detail in this
regard and we are corresponding with Irish Water and providing our views on
this.

The issue of disclosure of personal data to third parties inevitably arises
in the case of Irish Water where they are already using contractors to fit
water metres and for other outsourced functions. This Office has asked
Irish Water to be transparent in terms of making clear the categories of
the data processors to whom they are providing the data and for what
purpose and to provide contact details in the event that a customer wishes
to raise a data protection concern. We are currently following up with
Irish Water on this matter.

Equally, Irish Water as part of their business model may use outsourced
service providers outside of the EEA. We are not aware that this is
currently part of their actual business plan but it would appear to be the
case that they wish to ensure this eventuality is covered in their Data
Protection Notice. Again, we have asked them to be more explicitly clear in
the notice in relation to how they would protect the data and to identify
where possible what type of data and for what purpose a transfer would
occur.

Full letter here.

http://www.roisinshortall.ie/2014/09/24/reply-from-data-protection-commissioner-on-irish-water

DeVore

(Cant link images, tweet here: https://twitter.com/DeVore/status/515088479773282304)

Have people seen this... its kinda lolworthy
Its from welfare.ie (our governmental agency responsible for PPSNs).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByX2Pg_IIAAuC4p.jpg:large

stitcheddepin

Can anybody answer the following with confidence please?
Is it only one adult allowance per household? I can only see space for one PPS (adult) on the application form.
They ask for declaration on the number of adults in the house, why? if you have three 20 something year old adults will they add a charge/estimate for each before they calculate via the meter reading.
pain in the swiss with this, our household will be pissing out the water, one parent and 3 (old, as in not below 17 years but not old enough to earn contribute to the house in any way)

Mrs Garth Brooks

stitcheddepin wrote: »

Can anybody answer the following with confidence please?
Is it only one adult allowance per household? I can only see space for one PPS (adult) on the application form.
They ask for declaration on the number of adults in the house, why? if you have three 20 something year old adults will they add a charge/estimate for each before they calculate via the meter reading.
pain in the swiss with this, our household will be pissing out the water, one parent and 3 (old, as in not below 17 years but not old enough to earn contribute to the house in any way)

Well if they're only asking for one PPSN on the form, it must mean that there's only one adult in the house.

geeksauce

stitcheddepin wrote: »

Can anybody answer the following with confidence please?
Is it only one adult allowance per household? I can only see space for one PPS (adult) on the application form.
They ask for declaration on the number of adults in the house, why? if you have three 20 something year old adults will they add a charge/estimate for each before they calculate via the meter reading.
pain in the swiss with this, our household will be pissing out the water, one parent and 3 (old, as in not below 17 years but not old enough to earn contribute to the house in any way)

Yes I think you can get an allowance for one adult and then allowances for children.

those over 17 wouldn't be included in the allowance for children, and to be fair they are old enough to contribute to the house, I was doing it at 16.

DeVore

I've been having this out with IrishWater over on my twitter... https://twitter.com/DeVore

They say that to get a House Allowance you must provide one adult PPSN... you can have any number of adults living there they don't care. One Adult PPSN gets you the house allowance.

They also give an allowance per child (I dunno how they define "child")... to get this you must provide the PPSN of each child.

shruikan2553

DeVore wrote: »

I've been having this out with IrishWater over on my twitter... https://twitter.com/DeVore

They say that to get a House Allowance you must provide one adult PPSN... you can have any number of adults living there they don't care. One Adult PPSN gets you the house allowance.

They also give an allowance per child (I dunno how they define "child")... to get this you must provide the PPSN of each child.

Im still wondering how do they know if there is 1 adult or 50. Scouts honour?

eeepaulo

DeVore wrote: »

I've been having this out with IrishWater over on my twitter... https://twitter.com/DeVore

Is that you with the fez?

DeVore

Yes, I'm a cartoon character

<-- see left.

geeksauce

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Im still wondering how do they know if there is 1 adult or 50. Scouts honour?

Why does it matter?

Ogham

knarkypants wrote: »

Plans for extra allowances/discounts for medical illness has been scrapped for at least 2 years.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irish-water-defers-list-of-illnesses-for-discounts-288545.html

No it hasn't - the list of medical conditions that qualify for a bill cap is not going to be provided. Anyone that says they have a large water requirement for medical reasons will get bills capped.
See http://www.moneyguideireland.com/water-charges-and-medical-conditions.html

eeepaulo

DeVore wrote: »

Yes, I'm a cartoon character

<-- see left.

You rock that look sir,

i see you know cartman as well

Ogham

Monife wrote: »

Have they confirmed how much it will be for non-metered apartments?

Also, have they confirmed the list of medical illnesses. I have arthritis therefore use more water for hot showers/baths/extra heating to alleviate pain/swelling. Would this be included?

Final confirmation due in days -but don't expect any changes from the proposed figures - see http://www.moneyguideireland.com/unmetered-water-charges-how-will-it-work.html