***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

relax carry on

DeVore wrote: »

What I'm not ok with is handing over all my personal details to a company who has already said it will ship those details outside the EU and give access to them to people there.... in return for 150 euros off my bill.

I've seen this mentioned before. I'm curious, do you have a link to this as it seems a bit strange. Thanks.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

eeepaulo

I read this here http://irish-revolution.blogspot.ie/2014/09/irishwater-government-and-media-lies.html

Strange how public assets are privatised and private losses are socialised? The banks went bust and all sorts of laws were passed over night to ensure that the taxpayers would take a loan to bailout the banks. This was sold to as a bailout for Ireland, it was not a bailout for Ireland, it was a bailout for bankers. It was a loan to the taxpayers. To repay this loan, we now must sell our most important assets, our data and our water. We don’t know how valuable a resource our data and water will be in 20 years. We do know our population is growing, so water will be an increasingly scare resource. At least when it’s in public ownership we have control. Will our children and grandchildren forgive us for giving away such a precious resource? Why should we be selling our assets to pay off debts that are not ours?

I have a private well and sceptic tank, i disagree with giving away our state assets that i (happily) subsidise for no appreciable gain simply to balance the books on a really short term minor boost to the economy.

We are going to end up with a semi state that is not accountable to the public. (actually this part is already there)
That is subsidised by the public, on top of the bills.
Thats risk is underwritten by the public.
That is able to make private profits.
That has a short term bonus structure that allows people to step down after performing terribly with massive payouts.

If they could tax air they would.

Idbatterim

The public did not break the economy with over spending as your post eluded to..

we voted for the idiots and everyone benefited from the insane and rampant spending increases and still do! Ironically enough, those complaining about the charges the most!

We simply get what we deserve, lets us vote to eliminate every tax or keep reducing it, we need a stable and sustainable tax base!!! Thats what sets us aside from properly run countries, we are very immature as a country...

shruikan2553

eeepaulo wrote: »

I read this here http://irish-revolution.blogspot.ie/2014/09/irishwater-government-and-media-lies.html



I have a private well and sceptic tank, i disagree with giving away our state assets that i (happily) subsidise for no appreciable gain simply to balance the books on a really short term minor boost to the economy.

We are going to end up with a semi state that is not accountable to the public. (actually this part is already there)
That is subsidised by the public, on top of the bills.
Thats risk is underwritten by the public.
That is able to make private profits.
That has a short term bonus structure that allows people to step down after performing terribly with massive payouts.

If they could tax air they would.

Motor tax is a bit like that. Its based on emissions. We can call anyone who doesnt own a car "unmetered" and charge them 200 a year.

Old boardie22

Idbatterim wrote: »

we voted for the idiots and everyone benefited from the insane and rampant spending increases and still do! Ironically enough, those complaining about the charges the most!

We simply get what we deserve, lets us vote to eliminate every tax or keep reducing it, we need a stable and sustainable tax base!!! Thats what sets us aside from properly run countries, we are very immature as a country...

Speak for yourself.. I did not vote for any of the shower of B******s... I will not waste my vote, voting for a lesser of two evils.. But that's me..
As for the tax bollox talk.. Facts are this... When taxes go down, the economy goes up... And vice versa.. It's the way it's always been... You show me any evidence from any country from any point in time where taxes were raised and an economy grew again..
You'll find plenty of examples of taxes being reduced and economy's improving though to the contrary... Tax = paying off bent public servants and corrupt arseholes... Not pay public services anymore..

Nerro

Melendez wrote: »

Your sense of honour and fair play.

It is possible that PPS numbers can be linked to addresses at some time in the future, especially where couples are jointly assessed for tax, but I would imagine the hunt for non-payers will take precedence over underpayers initially.

OK thanks for that. But somehow I don't believe there will be many honourable users...I hope I am wrong tho, as they are just asking for it tbh...

Phoebas

Old boardie22 wrote: »

You show me any evidence from any country from any point in time where taxes were raised and an economy grew again..

Eh, Ireland?

Recondite49

Her name was Lola wrote: »

Heard a good argument on radio recently.

We have 100% of water in some homes of drinkable quality. Yet we flush the toilet with this water.

Why are we treating all water to drinkable level when we drink maybe 1% of the water we consume in a house?

You're right! Apparently the Victorians had this down to a science ; they used grey water in the toilets, a much better idea!

Banjo String

Good news for those with an illness/medical condition or a disability.

Irish Water has confirmed that plans to draw up a list of medical conditions to give certain households discounts for water charges have been scrapped for at least another two years.

The Irish Examiner can confirm that no such list will be drawn up until 2017 at the earliest.

The Government had promised to draw up a list of specific medical conditions to allow households qualify for subsidised water bills.

Earlier this week, the Department of Environment said it hoped to have a list agreed by October 1.

But Irish Water says households will only be asked to declare if they have a condition or not on forms. The company confirmed there would be no list drawn up in the current price control period, which lasts until December 31, 2016.

It was also confirmed last night that the Data Protection Commissioner has asked Irish Water to clarify how it will handle PPS numbers after concerns about use of personal data.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irish-water-defers-list-of-illnesses-for-discounts-288545.html

Also,

] has also been revealed that water rates and free allowances in general will not be unveiled until just hours before meters start clocking up costs. The energy regulator will unveil the final costs for users, the fixed unit price, and any free allowances for children, the day before charging begins next Wednesday.

Why

What are they worried about /hiding?

rameire

In relation to the medical list,
I would say they are waiting for the Medical Card assessment team to come up with the list for them, and then use that to apply allowances.

Banjo String

more like they are waiting to see what the exact revenue is they need, then they will divide that amount by the amount of houses they reckon will be paying minus free allowances etc.




A X B = X then - Y = € revenue required.


Simple.


Bollox all to do with Conservation either.

Its not like 'We didn't know these charges were coming' after all.

Why are they waiting to 11th Hour to release the details? "Sign a blank cheque to IW, you Gombeens." Say our betters.

Ogham

Banjo String wrote: »

more like they are waiting to see what the exact revenue is they need, then they will divide that amount by the amount of houses they reckon will be paying minus free allowances etc.

.

The proposed figures were widely publicised - and often quoted by IW spokesperson. http://www.moneyguideireland.com/figures-for-water-charges-released.html

They were only published in late July and consultation on them which was open to the public only closed on 28th Aug.

The charges are of course based on the revenue they need.
They need "just" €304 million off domestic users - Govt and business users will be topping that up to cover the rest.
Based on 1.28 million customers - that gives you the much quoted €238 average charge. (These are figures from CER)

They know what revenue they need to generate and the consultation didn't seem to produce much response - so I don't expect the proposed figures to change much (if at all).

Leroy42

Am I correct in my reading of the T&C that metered homes will be allowed a grace period of 6 months form the start of billing when the charges will be limited to the fixed amount, i.e. that of an unmtered house.

That will give people plenty of time to get used to the actual water usage.

Old boardie22

Phoebas wrote: »

Eh, Ireland?

"Eh, Ireland?"
Is not evidence or data to prove taxes going up improves an economy..

Timberrrrrrrr

Old boardie22 wrote: »

"Eh, Ireland?"
Is not evidence or data to prove taxes going up improves an economy..

Did taxes go up in Ireland?

Did the economy improve?

Old boardie22

Taxes certainly went up...

As for the economy improving, that's a matter of opinion isn't it..?

For a start the figures quoted half the time are either manipulated to suit or just plain wrong... But I'm sure you know that.. Example people on the live register going down is signalled as an improving economy, if you then bother your bollix to look into it..
It's just people no longer on the job list. But still "not" working.. That's not improvement to me..
Do you think people are spending money again..? I don't think so. The latest housing bubble and new car bubble might have you believe this alright

Timberrrrrrrr

Old boardie22 wrote: »

Taxes certainly went up...

As for the economy improving, that's a matter of opinion isn't it..?

For a start the figures quoted half the time are either manipulated to suit or just plain wrong... But I'm sure you know that.. Example people on the live register going down is signalled as an improving economy, if you then bother your bollix to look into it..
It's just people no longer on the job list. But still "not" working.. That's not improvement to me..
Do you think people are spending money again..? I don't think so. The latest housing bubble and new car bubble might have you believe this alright

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/s-p-raises-ireland-s-debt-rating-due-to-improving-economy-1.1823472

S&P raises Ireland’s debt rating due to improving economy

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/03/uk-ireland-economy-idUKKBN0F815020140703

(Reuters) - Ireland's economy grew by 2.7 percent in the first quarter and new European Union rules on calculating output significantly increased the size of the economy, raising the chances of Dublin easing its austerity measures later this year.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/0113/497442-economic-surveys/

Upbeat surveys on improving Irish economy

micosoft

Ghost Buster wrote: »

We could go down the route of pointing out all the cash cow glitches in Ireland that other countries dont have, VRT for starters......
but lifes too short

Please do. Pretty much every other countries have some form of Vehicle Excise duty. The only big differentiator internationally is that countries that manufacture cars tend to have low rates and countries that don't tend to have high rates. Does that explain it?

seamus

Old boardie22 wrote: »

As for the economy improving, that's a matter of opinion isn't it..?

No, it's matter of fact. We're not in recession and haven't been in recession for a good while. GDP is growing, GNP has been rising steadily since 2012.

For a start the figures quoted half the time are either manipulated to suit or just plain wrong... But I'm sure you know that.. Example people on the live register going down is signalled as an improving economy, if you then bother your bollix to look into it..
It's just people no longer on the job list. But still "not" working.. That's not improvement to me..

http://www.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=qnq37
Between Q2 2013 and Q2 2014, the number of actual people working rose by 31,700, while the number of unemployed dropped by 46,200.

Where's the ~15,000 difference? Well that's the number of people who dropped out of the labour force in the same period - i.e. went to college.

But whatever way you look at it, the numbers in employment have increased as well as the numbers looking for work having decreased.

And no, it's nothing to do with emigration. In that period there was no drop in the number of people who are legal to work. In fact, the number of people over 15 (i.e. "potential" workers) rose by 7,000.

The figures are right there on the page, no spin or interpretation.

Do you think people are spending money again..?

Again, numbers don't lie.
http://www.cso.ie/indicators/default.aspx?id=5NQQ24A

Pumpkinseeds

seamus wrote: »

No, it's matter of fact. We're not in recession and haven't been in recession for a good while. GDP is growing, GNP has been rising steadily since 2012.

http://www.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=qnq37
Between Q2 2013 and Q2 2014, the number of actual people working rose by 31,700, while the number of unemployed dropped by 46,200.

Where's the ~15,000 difference? Well that's the number of people who dropped out of the labour force in the same period - i.e. went to college.

But whatever way you look at it, the numbers in employment have increased as well as the numbers looking for work having decreased.

And no, it's nothing to do with emigration. In that period there was no drop in the number of people who are legal to work. In fact, the number of people over 15 (i.e. "potential" workers) rose by 7,000.

The figures are right there on the page, no spin or interpretation.

Again, numbers don't lie.
http://www.cso.ie/indicators/default.aspx?id=5NQQ24A

Do you have any statistics on how many of those in employment and no longer seeking work are on the job bridge scheme? It appears as if that particular project has been a source of free labour to businesses and schools all over the country.

Chips Lovell

About 6,000 at the moment. The numbers in JobBridge are published every month as part of the Live Register statistics release

Wanderer2010

seamus wrote: »

Again, numbers don't lie.
http://www.cso.ie/indicators/default.aspx?id=5NQQ24A

Wow, you really are Fine Gael's dream candidate, taking quotes and figures at blind value and not questioning anything. The number of people in employment increasing is down to the massive numbers of people of SlaveBridge, being exploited by employers who already have the upper hand in a job-poor economy. The JobBridge figures are regularly touted when FG boast about how good a job they have done the past 2 years "cleaning up the economy", you are extremely naive if you believe them.

Chips Lovell

Actually, if you look at the stats, around 900 of the net 31,700 increase in employment is down to JobBridge.

Timberrrrrrrr

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Wow, you really are Fine Gael's dream candidate, taking quotes and figures at blind value and not questioning anything. The number of people in employment increasing is down to the massive numbers of people of SlaveBridge, being exploited by employers who already have the upper hand in a job-poor economy. The JobBridge figures are regularly touted when FG boast about how good a job they have done the past 2 years "cleaning up the economy", you are extremely naive if you believe them.

Would you agree that the economy has improved over the last couple of years?

Old boardie22

Like the other poster said. Spoken like a true politician... Plié I said in my post. Numbers are often misrepresented/misquoted/ or just wrong
You must be living in a different country than the rest of us, as the writers of those articles you posted seaumus...
Not in recession, that's a good one too...

hju6

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Would you agree that the economy has improved over the last couple of years?

For a very few, yes

For the rest of us not at all, it's worse

Old boardie22

Yeah... It's much better..

[url]Http://www[/url].
tradingeconomics.com/ireland/unemployment-rate

Old boardie22

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Would you agree that the economy has improved over the last couple of years?

No, I would not..

Timberrrrrrrr

Old boardie22 wrote: »

No, I would not..

From your own link

Irish Unemployment Rate Down to 11.2%


Ireland’s jobless rate decreased for the fourth straight month to 11.2 percent in August of 2014 from a revised 11.3 percent in July.

In unadjusted terms there were 398,325 people signing on the Live Register in August 2014. This represents an annual decrease of 36,955 (-8.5 percent).

The number of long term claimants on the Live Register in August 2014 was 187,598. The number of male long term claimants decreased by 11,199 (-8.3 percent) in the year to August 2014, while females increased by 1,989 (+3.2 percent), giving an overall annual decrease of 9,210 (-4.7 percent) in the number of long term claimants.

So with all of these decreases how does that not point to the economy improving?