***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

bladespin

T-Maxx wrote: »

LOL at all these "hard men" (and women of course!) refusing to pay.

Don't think anyone refusing it hard or not, does seem to bring on a lot of hard hardheadedness though, cannot wait for the next election, bet there's entire areas TD's will be afraid to thread.

Phoebas

Banjo String wrote: »

Mmmmm.

SF aren't making this a red line issue in the same way that they are making the property tax a red line issue.
The makes it easy for SF to say they are opposed to water charges but to retain them if they get into a coalition government. At least that was the SF position up to last week. Expect all sorts of wild promises as the election approaches.

gctest50

T-Maxx wrote: »

LOL at all these "hard men" (and women of course!) refusing to pay.

It doesn't really matter - if almost everyone signs up - they'll be all like "great - look what we did"

if its below the threshold/too much hassle - they can go "we tried - it'll have to be council tax instead"

arse..biscuits

T-Maxx wrote: »

LOL at all these "hard men" (and women of course!) refusing to pay.

LOL at all these "hard men"?

Go fill out your form and start paying for your water again, well done.

micosoft

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

if people don't co-operate revenue will be drafted in I can see it,some democracy though,we elect people and then they tell us what to do even if we don't want to,but who am I to judge :rolleyes:

Who is We? You and your chums? All the major parties, FG, FF, Labour had Water Charges in their manifesto. The only anti democrats are those protesting and rioting against policies that the vast majority of our citizens voted for - 74% of the vote went to parties that openly supported water charges.

But that's democracy for you! What you are looking for is a dictatorship of the "people" where a small bunch of economic illiterates take over the country by force. Unfortunately it didn't work out too well the last time it was tried.

micosoft

mfceiling wrote: »

Nothing at all....not a jot

As you are plainly on the internet you can find all the information and sign up on the Irish Water website.

LMGTFY

That wasn't so hard now, was it?

arse..biscuits

micosoft wrote: »

Who is We? You and your chums? All the major parties, FG, FF, Labour had Water Charges in their manifesto. The only anti democrats are those protesting and rioting against policies that the vast majority of our citizens voted for - 74% of the vote went to parties that openly supported water charges.

But that's democracy for you! What you are looking for is a dictatorship of the "people" where a small bunch of economic illiterates take over the country by force. Unfortunately it didn't work out too well the last time it was tried.

"We" is thousands of people up and down the country protesting against the charges. RTE aren't reporting it but it's big and it's growing.

arse..biscuits

arse..biscuits wrote: »

"We" is thousands of people up and down the country protesting against the charges. RTE aren't reporting it but it's big and it's growing.

A few thugs stopping honest hard workers from doing their legal job is hardly "thousands of people protesting against the charges" now is it? One of the most vocal "protesters" a failed hunger striker and a candidate in upcoming by election, "protests" about the quality of the meters! Other "protesters" when challenged, complain about the possibility of radiation emitting from meters. NOT about the charges!

EazyD

micosoft wrote: »

As you are plainly on the internet you can find all the information and sign up on the Irish Water website.

LMGTFY

That wasn't so hard now, was it?

You can make your point without the condescending tone.

Recondite49

arse..biscuits wrote: »

LOL at all these "hard men"?

Go fill out your form and start paying for your water again, well done.

Indeed, it's the height of bravado to fill in a form after all... :-D

micosoft

arse..biscuits wrote: »

"We" is thousands of people up and down the country protesting against the charges. RTE aren't reporting it but it's big and it's growing.

Possibly a thousand, probably a couple of hundred. RTE I assume are not reporting it because its not newsworthy. RTE's role is not to act as a propaganda tool for tiny group of extremists. On the other hand the not "We" group are the hundreds of thousands if not millions of people in this country who democratically voted in the Government that is in power now and the bulk of the opposition; and expect that they deliver in the main what they set out in their manifestos.

If you want to stop water meters you had you chance three years ago. The vast majority of people didn't agree with you in the election. And in a year and a bit's time you'll have another chance. And I suspect that once again, the vast majority of people will disagree with you.

Recondite49

micosoft wrote: »

Possibly a thousand, probably a couple of hundred. RTE I assume are not reporting it because its not newsworthy. RTE's role is not to act as a propaganda tool for tiny group of extremists. On the other hand the not "We" group are the hundreds of thousands if not millions of people in this country who democratically voted in the Government that is in power now and the bulk of the opposition; and expect that they deliver in the main what they set out in their manifestos.

If you want to stop water meters you had you chance three years ago. The vast majority of people didn't agree with you in the election. And in a year and a bit's time you'll have another chance. And I suspect that once again, the vast majority of people will disagree with you.

I for one wasn't here during the last election so see no reason why I should be a victim of voter lethargy. No forms, no fees, Irish Water are not getting anything from me.

I agree that people who engage in civil disobedience are often in the minority ; I also agree that more could have been done at the time to stop water charges but the apathy of others doesn't mean that poor families should pay a standardised charge for Water rather than it coming from taxes which are means tested.

micosoft

EazyD wrote: »

You can make your point without the condescending tone.

When someone is being deliberately obtuse I think it's called for. It's bound to happen when over a million letters go out (not exactly registered post) that a number would go missing or be delayed. Complain to An Post if you must. But the poster knows well they can call IW or simply go to the website and get all the information there. Instead they choose to make a silly point that because they didn't get a letter the whole concept was a disaster. Being obtuse will result in condescension.

Recondite49

EazyD wrote: »

You can make your point without the condescending tone.

True but it's more fun this way! :-D

eeepaulo

micosoft wrote: »

All the major parties, FG, FF, Labour had Water Charges in their manifesto. The only anti democrats are those protesting and rioting against policies that the vast majority of our citizens voted for - 74% of the vote went to parties that openly supported water charges.

FF - Nothing (well just some thing saying businesses would not pay more)

Labour -

Ensuring access to safe water
Security of access to clean drinking water is essential for public health. This has been undermined by recent scandals of polluted water supplies, and drought caused by extreme weather. Labour does not favour water charges, which do not address the immediate needs of those who currently receive intermittent or poor water supplies. Labour will continue to invest in the water services programme as part of the capital budget, focusing on minimising treated water lost through leakage.

Interesting use of a comma there, gun wielding americans would be proud. I would suggest that 100 million+ set up and 500 million to put in the metres does not address the people who are on boil notices.

FG -

Delivering Water: Fine Gael will deliver clean and reliable drinking water in all parts of the country by creating a single water utility company to take over responsibility of water from the fragmented local authorities that will use new investment and best practice to deliver better water services.
Water Charging: Fine Gael will introduce a fair funding model to deliver clean and reliable water. We will not ask home owners to pay for a broken and unreliable system and that is why Fine Gael will only introduce water charging after the establishment of a new State owned water utility company to take over responsibility from the separate local authorities for Ireland’s water infrastructure and to drive new investment.

They are doing what they said they would.

micosoft

Recondite49 wrote: »

I for one wasn't here during the last election so see no reason why I should be a victim of voter lethargy. No forms, no fees, Irish Water are not getting anything from me.

I agree that people who engage in civil disobedience are often in the minority ; I also agree that more could have been done at the time to stop water charges but the apathy of others doesn't mean that poor families should pay a standardised charge for Water rather than it coming from taxes which are means tested.

You had ONE vote. It would have made NO difference given your view is such an extreme minority view. If another group came out and said we don't want to pay any social welfare would they be allowed insist on that policy? You have another opportunity in a year and a half. You have no right to anti-democratically inflict your views on the vast majority in this country.

Recondite49

micosoft wrote: »

You had ONE vote. It would have made NO difference given your view is such an extreme minority view. If another group came out and said we don't want to pay any social welfare would they be allowed insist on that policy? You have another opportunity in a year and a half. You have no right to anti-democratically inflict your views on the vast majority in this country.

Firstly, we all have a democratic right to express our views.

Also from the comments on here, I think it's safe to say quite a few people don't want to pay these charges.

Of course the majority of people will just grumble and hand over the money but that doesn't make it wrong for others to oppose the charges.

Social Welfare is means tested and also in our self interest to pay given it goes towards our state pension. Water charges are applied equally to rich and poor alike - if they had added ten Euros to my tax bill per month I would happily had paid up* as I would know the hardest hit people wouldn't have to suffer ; as it is these charges are unfair and immoral.

To quote the great canticle we heard before "You can shove 'yer water meters up 'yer arse!"

*Actually I would probably just increase my pension contributions accordingly as these are tax free but you take my point.

EazyD

micosoft wrote: »

When someone is being deliberately obtuse I think it's called for. It's bound to happen when over a million letters go out (not exactly registered post) that a number would go missing or be delayed. Complain to An Post if you must. But the poster knows well they can call IW or simply go to the website and get all the information there. Instead they choose to make a silly point that because they didn't get a letter the whole concept was a disaster. Being obtuse will result in condescension.

The effectiveness of any tax system relies on mainly two things, coherence and the ease within which one can pay. In this case (and in many other individual cases I know of), this has proven not to be the case.

Before you go labelling me an "anarchist" or "crusty", I'll make it clear that I am fully in favour of these charges, just heavily opposed to the way in which it has been done.

Satriale

micosoft wrote: »

You had ONE vote. It would have made NO difference given your view is such an extreme minority view. If another group came out and said we don't want to pay any social welfare would they be allowed insist on that policy? You have another opportunity in a year and a half. You have no right to anti-democratically inflict your views on the vast majority in this country.

I know this flawed system is all we have, but you dont know any more than i do how many people support, or dont support, water charges. All we know how many people support parties or politicians.
95% of voters could agree with every item on a manifesto bar one issue and vote for it. That leaves 5% deciding that issue against the majority.

Dont presume that you know their will beyond that without asking them directly. You or I have zero right to call a protestor anti democratic in such a system.

dxhound2005

Satriale wrote: »

I know this flawed system is all we have, but you dont know any more than i do how many people support, or dont support, water charges. All we know how many people support parties or politicians.
95% of voters could agree with every item on a manifesto bar one issue and vote for it. That leaves 5% deciding that issue against the majority.

Dont presume that you know their will beyond that without asking them directly. You or I have zero right to call a protestor anti democratic in such a system.

If my neighbours and I wanted to have meters installed and these thugs stopped the workers coming in would that be democratic?

Satriale

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If my neighbours and I wanted to have meters installed and these thugs stopped the workers coming in would that be democratic?

Are you saying you think all protestors are thugs? Would you outlaw protest/dissent?


edit
btw ive no doubt some protestors are just as thuggish as some of the government, both elements need to be rooted out (and we cant send them all to Bruxelles ;0) )

animaal

Recondite49 wrote: »

*Actually I would probably just increase my pension contributions accordingly as these are tax free but you take my point.

This government has already made it clear that people's pension savings are subject to confiscation.

20Cent

Anyone know why they can't just delete the ppsn's once the allowances have been verifued?

Don't think I trust them its been a shambles so far. How long before millions of peoples data gets leaked or hacked.

S.O

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If my neighbours and I wanted to have meters installed and these thugs stopped the workers coming in would that be democratic?

Is everyone whos against water charges thugs in your view? what about this pensioner whos against water charges is she a thug also?

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If my neighbours and I wanted to have meters installed and these thugs stopped the workers coming in would that be democratic?

Who exactly are the thugs you refer to?

I'm hearing reports of lads from the North employed to fit meters openly calling protestors "fenian bastards" in earshot of the Gardai, who apparently are doing nothing in response.

Little CuChulainn

Banjo String wrote: »

Who exactly are the thugs you refer to?

Well there was the guy who threatened a meter installer with a gun for one.

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

Who exactly are the thugs you refer to?

I'm hearing reports of lads from the North employed to fit meters openly calling protestors "fenian bastards" in earshot of the Gardai, who apparently are doing nothing in response.

Reports from lads you sent out to protest?

dxhound2005

S.O wrote: »

Is everyone whos against water charges thugs in your view? what about this pensioner whos against water charges is she a thug also?

I listened to the start of that. But when she said "we never had to pay for water in our lives" I realised she is only about 40 years old.

hju6

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If my neighbours and I wanted to have meters installed and these thugs stopped the workers coming in would that be democratic?

Thugs? LOL

you and your neighbours could protect the workers from the UK, and serve them tea and biscuits, and don't forget to say thank you for the meter.

Timberrrrrrrr

hju6 wrote: »

Thugs? LOL

you and your neighbours could protect the workers from the UK, and serve them tea and biscuits, and don't forget to say thank you for the meter.

I actually let 2 of them use my bathroom when they where putting meters in my street, they didn't need tea as they have a kinda mobile canteen they bring along. Nothing wrong with manners and showing a bit of humanity to a man doing a job.