***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Geuze

Is it true that without a banking crisis and the 64bn cost, we would still have a fiscal deficit, yes.

smellmepower

How big of one though?

Firefox11

gctest50 wrote: »

That's very dodgy advice -

- you are telling people to work on a high pressure system not knowing their level of skill
- you don't own the water pipe outside your gate
- you don't own the meter
- you don't have insurance for messing around with public footpaths
- if you break up the footpath and someone falls over it, you will pay

No doubt if someone tries it and injuries result, being the slithery sort they will try push the blame on a "person on boards"

plus it's illegal and very dangerous to tamper or interfere with and gas or electricity meter so why would a water meter be any different.

smellmepower

Because gas and electricity can kill you very easily through explosion or electrocution, and water can't?

Frank Lee Midere

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Everybody thinks the NHS is better in the UK because it's an uncriticisable religion. Everybody hates the HSE because Irish people love to hate their own stuff.

Statistically they look similar.

What statistics would those be?

stevedublin

S.O wrote: »

His comment contradicts the argument some people make on internet forums that water is somehow free and now all of a sudden we need to pay for it, when we already paying for it through general taxation.

Okay, there is no problem then, the taxpayer can continue to pay for it through general taxation.

darkpagandeath

Geuze wrote: »

The problem is that we have paid taxes plus borrowed to cover the costs of water infrastructure.

Proof ? As I thought the government did not invest the monies collected to actually fund the infrastructure. That's why it's in the state it is in now, plenty of money in the tiger days yet no investment.

knarkypants

Geuze wrote: »

There's nothing free.

It costs 1 - 1.2bn pa for water.

Taxes covered that up until now.

In 2013 the State collected 59bn and spent 70bn, leaving a fiscal deficit of 11.5bn.

This must fall.

The problem I have is the government say it costs up to 1.2bn per year to filter water for domestic use but up to 41% of that water is lost through leaks in the system. Surely it makes more sense to invest money into fixing the system which will lead to a massive reduction in the cost of filtering water.

Irish water will be all about profits. If we stay under the allowance, they will either reduce or remove the allowance and/or increase prices. Sure they haven't even started billing people and already they are trying to get the allowance reduced and they still haven't released the figure for how much each unit of water is going to cost.

Geuze

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Proof ? As I thought the government did not invest the monies collected to actually fund the infrastructure. That's why it's in the state it is in now, plenty of money in the tiger days yet no investment.

All public services are funded by a mixture of tax + borrowing.

Except for the few years when the Govt didn't borrow.

Geuze

smellmepower wrote: »

How big of one though?

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/gfsa/governmentfinancestatisticsapril2014/#.U8fsuvldWSo


2013 revenue = 58,866m - a small amount of this may be linked to banking crisis

2013 expenditure = 70,371m of which interest on debt is 7,407.

Borrowing = 11.5bn

With the severe recession, but with no associated costs of the banking crisis, our debt would be much less, and so our interest bill would be much less.

I guess interest bill maybe 5bn?

Our 2013 deficit would still be 9bn, as tax revenues collasped due to the construction bubble bursting.

Our public debt would still be high, higher than average, but not really high.

DanWall

It sort of goes against the rules of marketing ( the more you buy the cheaper each item gets[units])
Who is responsible for the accuracy and calibration of these meters? on a plus side I think if they get dirty, they will read less than is delivered.

Victor

For those bemoaning the cheap doctors in the UK, remember that UK workers can end up paying 26% national insurance (on top of taxes).

AlanS181824 wrote: »

I wonder if paying for the stuff that's all around us will finally fix the lime issue in my area...

I can literally go through kettles every 2 to 3 weeks!

Then get one of those stainless steel wire meshes that you can rinse out. :rolleyes:

ankaragucu wrote: »

Been reading on social media that Irish water installing meters in your home is a bit like Sky turning up and installing their dish and system in your home?

Well, are you using Sky or not? If you use the water, you should pay.

If you didnt consent to it you dont have to pay.The key being "no consent no contract" . . . . . IS this total guff?

This is a bit like eating in a restaurant and then objecting to paying.

knarkypants wrote: »

The problem I have is the government say it costs up to 1.2bn per year to filter water for domestic use but up to 41% of that water is lost through leaks in the system. Surely it makes more sense to invest money into fixing the system which will lead to a massive reduction in the cost of filtering water.

Where will the money come from for identifying and fixing the leaks come from?

Fr. Ned

Victor wrote: »

If you use the water, you should pay.

This is a bit like eating in a restaurant and then objecting to paying.

Who paid for water services this year?
Was it 'free'?

Fr. Ned

Next year folks, you will pay once for your water and a second time for a superquango set up to benefit FG's sugar daddy.

Banjo String

Victor wrote: »

For those bemoaning the cheap doctors in the UK, remember that UK workers can end up paying 26% national insurance (on top of taxes).

By 'cheap' doctors, I presume you mean free? Well free in the sense that our water is currently 'free', ie it's paid for via taxation. Imagine if the UK taxpayers were asked to pay to see a doctor on top of their national insurance payments, there would be uproar I imagine, yet many in Ireland are prepared to fund water through a tax a second time. The mind boggles sometimes.

Also please define 'can'? , because in my experience, its absolutely nowhere near this %. (12-14% would be the norm)

Lastly, how much USC gets deducted from their wages/salaries incidentally?

Victor wrote: »

Then get one of those stainless steel wire meshes that you can rinse out. :rolleyes:

I think the point being that the water is of a shìte quality.

Victor wrote: »

Well, are you using Sky or not? If you use the water, you should pay.

This is a bit like eating in a restaurant and then objecting to paying.

Well not quite. Its like having a portion of your wage deducted at source to keep the only restaurant in town opened, then being forced to eat in it every night, no matter how bad or overpriced the food is, then having to pay again on the way out the door.

No competition = a monopoly.

Unless you've not been paying taxes or vat beforehand (because that's what's paid for it up til now.

[

Victor wrote: »

Where will the money come from for identifying and fixing the leaks come from?

The money spent on the consultants would have been a good starting point, and we coud of still ran it with the council staff were keeping on to, er... Run it

WIne Gums

Irish Water state that households need to apply before 31 October 2014.
Their website states "you will need to include your PPS Number in your application".

I wrote to the Office of the Data Protection Commission asking if I was obliged to give them this number.

They responded-:

"Thank you for your recent email to this office.

The use of the PPSN is governed by Social Welfare legislation. An entity
which is specified in Social Welfare legislation is authorised to request
and use the PPSN. We understand that the Social Welfare & Pensions Bill
2014 which is currently proceeding through the Houses of the Oireachtas
contains a provision which will authorise Irish Water to use the PPSN.

This Office's role is therefore focussed on limiting the access to personal
data involved in billing customers and ensuring any such access was covered
by law and was proportionate. I can also advise that we are currently
reviewing the draft application forms.

Yours Sincerely

Information Officer
Office of the Data Protection Commissioner
Canal House
Station Road
Portarlington
Co Laois
"

---

My question is-:

As the Dail does not return until 17 September 2014, will the legislation get through the Dail before the
Irish Water deadline of 31 October 2014 ?, I doubt it.
If the Bill does not get through on time and I do not supply my PPSN prior to legislation being passed, will
I be denied the water allowance to which I am entitled ?.
As of now, Irish Water are not entitled to use my PPSN.

Regards.

_Kaiser_

WIne Gums wrote: »

Irish Water state that households need to apply before 31 October 2014.
Their website states "you will need to include your PPS Number in your application".

I wrote to the Office of the Data Protection Commission asking if I was obliged to give them this number.

They responded-:

"Thank you for your recent email to this office.

The use of the PPSN is governed by Social Welfare legislation. An entity
which is specified in Social Welfare legislation is authorised to request
and use the PPSN. We understand that the Social Welfare & Pensions Bill
2014 which is currently proceeding through the Houses of the Oireachtas
contains a provision which will authorise Irish Water to use the PPSN.

This Office's role is therefore focussed on limiting the access to personal
data involved in billing customers and ensuring any such access was covered
by law and was proportionate. I can also advise that we are currently
reviewing the draft application forms.

Yours Sincerely

Information Officer
Office of the Data Protection Commissioner
Canal House
Station Road
Portarlington
Co Laois
"

---

My question is-:

As the Dail does not return until 17 September 2014, will the legislation get through the Dail before the
Irish Water deadline of 31 October 2014 ?, I doubt it.
If the Bill does not get through on time and I do not supply my PPSN prior to legislation being passed, will
I be denied the water allowance to which I am entitled ?.
As of now, Irish Water are not entitled to use my PPSN.

Regards.

Unfortunately I'd be pretty confident that the relevant i's will be dotted and t's crossed in time - one thing this government have shown us is that they can move like greased lightening when there's money to be had.

You have to love the irony I suppose.. we're forever told how scandal-hit X can't be denied his/her pension or pay-off because of legislation, yet when it suits them they can change it no bother!

hucklebuck

Dougal at it again, "the average charge will not exceed €240" I assume to calculate the average they include eldery people who use very little compared to young people who work that may have two showers a day. No doubt people who have never worked a day in their life are no inluded in average usage as they wont be paying for it.

hucklebuck

Only catching up but IIRC road tax is meant to cover water. Good too see Fine Gael and Labours friends being fixed up in a quango.

noodler

Geuze wrote: »

Our gross debt is 203bn at end-2013.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/gfsa/governmentfinancestatisticsapril2014/#.U8e7OvldWSo


Our interest bill during 2013 was 7.4bn.

The gross cost of recapitalising the banks was 64bn.

So the gross cost of the banking crisis is 31.5% of our gross public debt.

I would suggest, then, that up to 2bn of our annual interest bill is due to the banking crisis.

Also, as our public debt rose so high due to the banking crisis, that led to higher interest rates on the public debt.

So the banking crisis means: more public debt, at higher interest rates.

Technically, we used 20bn from the NPRF towards the 64bn rather than borrowing it (obviously you could argue opportunity cost etc though).

Of the other 44bn, the guts of ten has been returned (BoI share transactions, sale opf Irish Lfie etc).

Alot of the remaining 34bn is Anglo and that is being financed through cheaper monetary policy engineering.

Its defintiely true that the vast majoirty of our interest bill is due to our requirement to fund public services.

Geuze wrote: »

Is it true that without a banking crisis and the 64bn cost, we would still have a fiscal deficit, yes.

Massively true.

Banjo String

This is interesting.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-investigating-possible-arson-attack-on-irish-water-storage-facility-30534937.html

Wonder what happened there.

Victor

WIne Gums wrote: »

Irish Water state that households need to apply before 31 October 2014.
Their website states "you will need to include your PPS Number in your application".

I wrote to the Office of the Data Protection Commission asking if I was obliged to give them this number.

They responded-:

"Thank you for your recent email to this office.

The use of the PPSN is governed by Social Welfare legislation. An entity
which is specified in Social Welfare legislation is authorised to request
and use the PPSN. We understand that the Social Welfare & Pensions Bill
2014 which is currently proceeding through the Houses of the Oireachtas
contains a provision which will authorise Irish Water to use the PPSN.

This Office's role is therefore focussed on limiting the access to personal
data involved in billing customers and ensuring any such access was covered
by law and was proportionate. I can also advise that we are currently
reviewing the draft application forms.

Yours Sincerely

Information Officer
Office of the Data Protection Commissioner
Canal House
Station Road
Portarlington
Co Laois
"

---

My question is-:

As the Dail does not return until 17 September 2014, will the legislation get through the Dail before the
Irish Water deadline of 31 October 2014 ?, I doubt it.
If the Bill does not get through on time and I do not supply my PPSN prior to legislation being passed, will
I be denied the water allowance to which I am entitled ?.
As of now, Irish Water are not entitled to use my PPSN.

Regards.

This was dealt with under the Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2014.

hucklebuck wrote: »

Dougal at it again, "the average charge will not exceed €240" I assume to calculate the average they include eldery people who use very little compared to young people who work that may have two showers a day. No doubt people who have never worked a day in their life are no inluded in average usage as they wont be paying for it.

You do understand the concept of average, don't you?

hucklebuck wrote: »

Only catching up but IIRC road tax is meant to cover water.

Just as well then that there is no road tax.

tayto lover

It never ceases to amaze me how the pro water tax posts are thanked by all the FG supporters (even the one with 5 posts in years).
They have the support well organised.
They love backing the party even at their cost.
Brainwashed i call it. :pac:

Fighting Irish

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

An opinion of your own too much to ask for?

:rolleyes:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

tayto lover wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how the pro water tax posts are thanked by all the FG supporters (even the one with 5 posts in years).
They have the support well organised.
They love backing the party even at their cost.
Brainwashed i call it. :pac:

Just for the record, I am pro water charges and feel we should have had them years ago but I am not a FG supporter - doesn't mean I won't vote for one of them sometime if I like what they are doing as I'm fickle that way and a real floating voter. Trying to label posters because of their views is a poor argument.

slimjimmc

Victor wrote: »

This was dealt with under the Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2014.

You do understand the concept of average, don't you?

Just as well then that there is no road tax.

Has a commencement order for the amendments been made yet? If not I presume it would be a quick and easy thing to do anyway.

tayto lover

Vincent Round Sunglasses wrote: »

Just for the record, I am pro water charges and feel we should have had them years ago but I am not a FG supporter - doesn't mean I won't vote for one of them sometime if I like what they are doing as I'm fickle that way and a real floating voter. Trying to label posters because of their views is a poor argument.

Maybe but the same old "thanks" brigade are very evident on all FG related posts.:rolleyes:

Banjo String

Victor wrote: »

This was dealt with under the Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2014.

You do understand the concept of average, don't you?

Just as well then that there is no road tax.

Ah yeah. That's correct. It's a 'motor tax'.

Guess what though, I could legally buy 100 cars, and never have to tax them unless I wish to drive them on an irish road.

So it's a road tax in everything but the name.

geeksauce

Banjo String wrote: »

Ah yeah. That's correct. It's a 'motor tax'.

Guess what though, I could legally buy 100 cars, and never have to tax them unless I wish to drive them on an irish road.

So it's a road tax in everything but the name.

Best to call it motor tax then seeing as that is it's name.

Banjo String

geeksauce wrote: »

Best to call it motor tax then seeing as that is it's name.

I think you're getting confused. I did call it motor tax.

Have you a point