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***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

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    #1532
    BarryD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    Einhard wrote: »
    Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the water charge, the outrage over handing over allegedly highly sensitive PPS information is all rather manufactured. People hand over PPS details to claim all sorts of allowances, yet when it comes to some form of charge they're all up in arms. Don't be pontificating about your privacy being infringed if you're happy to divulge the same information when you stand to benefit from it.

    Precisely, look at it like a claim for child benefit - you supply the child's PPS number and you get the cash. For water, you supply the PPS and get the benefit in the form of an allowance. What could be simpler, except that you now have to pay for something that was 'free' for most for many years.

    As an aside, we used to live in Kilcoole, Wicklow. Our water came from Roundwood reservoir in Wicklow but at that time we paid a service charge to Wicklow Co Co. The people in parts of south Dublin who were using the same water weren't paying a cent at the same time. Now this was bad enough on it's own but what used to really piss me off was when Roundwood reservoir ran a bit low and water needed to be rationed - who was cut off first?? You guessed it... the people in North Wicklow, whose county the water was coming from and who were paying for it at that time!


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    #1533
    Satriale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Satriale


    Fr. Ned wrote: »
    If we need all this extra money why don't we just cut the pay of PS workers by around 30/40% to bring them in line with other European nations and cut the dole by the same amount.

    That would save us around €10 billion per annum.

    We live in a country where the Dublin city liberian earns €110k per annum FFS.
    County managers are paid more than the prime minister of Spain and of many other countriesin the EU.

    It's a joke that us in the private sector continually pay for.

    Be careful Ned, you could get your post reported for that kinda blasphemy in here...


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    #1534
    Fr. Ned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    BarryD wrote: »
    Precisely, look at it like a claim for child benefit - you supply the child's PPS number and you get the cash. For water, you supply the PPS and get the benefit in the form of an allowance. What could be simpler, except that you now have to pay for something that was 'free' for most for many years.

    It'd be simpler to just cut the child benefit then to pay for water services.

    No need for a super quango and the contracts handed to the friends of blueshirts.


    Water was never 'free'. Are you saying that nobody has been paying for it all along? It just happened to arrive at your tap?


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    #1535
    Fr. Ned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    Satriale wrote: »
    Be careful Ned, you could get your post reported for that kinda blasphemy in here...

    Well, if that post is reported and if there's a sanction against me, there's something seriously wrong here.


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    #1536
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Did everyone not supply their pps number to their mortgage company to receive the benefit of tax allowances deducted at source? How is this different?


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    #1537
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,555 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Did everyone not supply their pps number to their mortgage company to receive the benefit of tax allowances deducted at source? How is this different?

    Because they where getting something for that, this time they have to pay and they don't like doing that.


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    #1538
    Fr. Ned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Did everyone not supply their pps number to their mortgage company to receive the benefit of tax allowances deducted at source? How is this different?

    Did you supply your children's PPS numbers to your mortgage company?

    Why?


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    #1539
    Satriale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Satriale


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Because they where getting something for that, this time they have to pay and they don't like doing that.

    They are going to have to pay for their free allowance, you say?


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    #1540
    Fr. Ned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Because they where getting something for that, this time they have to pay and they don't like doing that.

    What are we getting that we haven't already paid for through our taxes?

    A tax non domicile getting a fat meter contract for being the blueshirt's sugar daddy?
    A new gym for the super quango's staff?
    €7k bonuses for the staff of said super quango?
    €1080 million spent on 'consultants' and set up even though using Bord Gais's database was the cheapest way of doing it?


    This is Ireland, not a properly functioning country.


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    #1541
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,555 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Satriale wrote: »
    They are going to have to pay for their free allowance, you say?

    No

    You just misread.


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    #1542
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Fr. Ned wrote: »
    Did you supply your children's PPS numbers to your mortgage company?

    Why?

    My children weren't applying for a mortgage so no.

    They are however looking for a water allowance.


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    #1543
    Fr. Ned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    Satriale wrote: »
    They are going to have to pay for their free allowance, you say?

    There is, nor never has been, 'free' water in this country.


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    #1544
    Fr. Ned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    My children weren't applying for a mortgage so no.

    They are however looking for a water allowance.

    Well, don't let me stop you handing over your kids personal details to a company which has stated as fact that they can't guarantee the security of those details.

    It's all there in their literature.


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    #1545
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Because they where getting something for that, this time they have to pay and they don't like doing that.

    Well in my case, if they ever figure out how to forcibly extract it from me, I'm going to pay more apparently.

    All because I am following a Govt depts own advice.

    It tells me right here not to hand it over.
    Q10. When should I not use my PPS No.?

    A10. You should not use your PPS Number or Social Services Card in ordinary commercial transactions. For example, the number or the Social Services Card should not be requested by or given to a retailer as proof of identity or for any other reason when making a purchase, availing of a hiring service etc.


    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-PPS-Number-Frequently-Asked.aspx

    The courts should have a field day with that one.


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    #1546
    Satriale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Satriale


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    No

    You just misread.

    Sorry sunshine, you are, surprise surprise, incorrect.


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    #1547
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,555 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Satriale wrote: »
    Sorry sunshine, you are, surprise surprise, incorrect.

    Cool.


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    #1548
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    My children weren't applying for a mortgage so no.

    They are however looking for a water allowance.

    You're breaking Govt instructions (which are quite specific) about giving your PPS number out?


    You fcuking rebel. Welcome aboard :pac:


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    #1549
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Well in my case, if they ever figure out how to forcibly extract it from me, I'm going to pay more apparently.

    All because I am following a Govt depts own advice.

    It tells me right here not to hand it over.




    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-PPS-Number-Frequently-Asked.aspx

    The courts should have a field day with that one.

    You're getting very litigious lately. In the olden days you would not have recognised the Free State courts. Irish Water have been authorised to use PPS numbers. That link very old. Lots of entities could have your PPS number and share it with lots more. You can include all the local authorities in your law suit.

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/PPSN-Register-of-Users---Local-Authority.aspx


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    #1550
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Well in my case, if they ever figure out how to forcibly extract it from me, I'm going to pay more apparently.

    All because I am following a Govt depts own advice.

    It tells me right here not to hand it over.




    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-PPS-Number-Frequently-Asked.aspx

    The courts should have a field day with that one.

    The link on that page to the full list of authorised users seems to suggest that Irish water is one.

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/PPSN-Register-of-Users---Other-Users.aspx#iwhttp://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/PPSN-Register-of-Users---Other-Users.aspx#iw


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    #1551
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    You're getting very litigious lately. In the olden days you would not have recognised the Free State courts. Irish Water have been authorised to use PPS numbers. That link very old.

    Its now up to the public to ensure Govt agencies have relevant laws stated on their own webpages?

    Like I said. A court of law will have a field day.
    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Lots of entities could have your PPS number and share it with lots more.

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/PPSN-Register-of-Users---Local-Authority.aspx

    Grand so. They don't need to ask me for it.

    Thanks. Dx. Your post informative and helpful as always.


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    #1552
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Its now up to the public to ensure Govt agencies have relevant laws stated on their own webpages?

    Like I said. A court of law will have a field day.



    Grand so. They don't need to ask me for it.

    Thanks. Dx. Your post informative and helpful as always.

    I really shouldn't have to give this sort of advice to a legal professional like yourself. Why don't you as a qualified barrister/solicitor (you never told me which) take a case and let us know how you get on.


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    #1553
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Fr. Ned wrote: »
    .

    This is the real reason for all the new taxes and charges, to pay off the gambling debts of bankers and speculators.
    .

    So is it not costing X Billion more a year to pay for civil servants, schools, hospitals, Gardaí, fire , social welfare etc etc , than the country takes in? You might want to check the figures.

    Where do you reckon that shortfall comes from?


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    #1554
    Fr. Ned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    So is it not costing X Billion a year to pay for civil servant, schools, hospitals, Gardaí, fire , social welfare etc etc , than the country takes in? You might want to check the figures.

    Yea, sure we don't take in any taxes at all.....

    BTW, see my earlier post. We can't afford to continue paying the PS 30-40% more than in other European countries.

    Ditto the dole.


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    #1555
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Fr. Ned wrote: »

    Water was never 'free'. Are you saying that nobody has been paying for it all along? It just happened to arrive at your tap?

    When theres a surplus in the exchequer its a lot easier to pay the massive amounts it cost to supply water to homes. It needs to be gotten off the books.


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    #1556
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Fr. Ned wrote: »
    Yea, sure we don't take in any taxes at all.....

    BTW, see my earlier post. We can't afford to continue paying the PS 30-40% more than in other European countries.

    Ditto the dole.

    Get elected so and take a 30-40% chunk off the wages of a group of people big enough to make sure you don't see a 2nd term. Theres been efforts to cut all sorts, but at this stage the only people not a member of "the most vulnerable in society" TM is middle class PAYE workers.


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    #1557
    EazyD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭EazyD


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    When theres a surplus in the exchequer its a lot easier to pay the massive amounts it cost to supply water to homes. It needs to be gotten off the books.

    How do you get that surplus in the first place?


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    #1558
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Its now up to the public to ensure Govt agencies have relevant laws stated on their own webpages?

    Like I said. A court of law will have a field day.



    Grand so. They don't need to ask me for it.

    Thanks. Dx. Your post informative and helpful as always.

    Why don't you disconnect from any supplied water system then harvest and drink all the free rainwater you like?


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    #1559
    Fr. Ned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Get elected so and take a 30-40% chunk off the wages of a group of people big enough to make sure you don't see a 2nd term.

    That's exactly the point.

    The overpayment of mere PS workers won't be tackled by any party in this banana republic.
    The sense of entitlement is there, put there by successive FFail and blueshirt governments.

    Where else in the modern world, indeed in any country in a bailout programme, would a librarian be paid over €110k.

    Madness.


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    #1560
    EazyD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭EazyD


    Fr. Ned wrote: »
    That's exactly the point.

    The overpayment of mere PS workers won't be tackled by any party in this banana republic.
    The sense of entitlement is there, put there by successive FFail and blueshirt governments.

    Where else in the modern world, indeed in any country in a bailout programme, would a librarian be paid over €110k.

    Madness.

    There's really only 2 options, either cut wages across the board or downsize, neither of which would be received well. Hence the reason we are taxed to the hilt to subsidise this madness.


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    #1561
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    https://www.newstalk.ie/Irish-Water-moves-to-reassure-customers-over-use-of-personal-data

    Presumably that's been posted already earlier in the week. Irish water woman on Pat Kenny answering the article in the paper last sunday about the PPS number thing.


    TBH it answered all the questions I thought came up in the article (I hadn't read it or had any questions tbh so I presume the stuff PK asked about covered it all)


This discussion has been closed.
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