***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Fr. Ned

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why not bypass your electricity and gas meters too sure?

If you steal everything you'll have loads of money.

Electricity and gas meters the guy asked to be installed?

Typical FG/'labour' speak to talking about 'stealing' water, water that our taxes have been paying for for decades.

Fr. Ned

chasm wrote: »

How do you know it is not on his property?

The super quango's staff can't trespass on private property.

Everyone has the right to remove the super quango's staff from their property by whatever means are required.

Banjo String

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'm waiting for you to explain how it's ok to give your pps number to a mortgage company to get tax deductions at sources but it's not ok to give it to a utilities company to get a water allowance. Let's assume you come up with some reason, how to you suggest Irish Water confirm the number of people in a house in order to provide the correct allowance?

I'm pretty sure both my wife and I, and our two kids are in the system for child benefit.

They can't cross reference with them

Phoebas

Banjo String wrote: »

I'm pretty sure both my wife and I, and our two kids are in the system for child benefit.

They can't cross reference with them

So you don't mind IW getting your PPSN from the DSP but you're totally against them getting it from you!

Satriale

dxhound2005 wrote: »

No. I eat all of the food that I buy. I don't see any point in buying it and then throwing it away. Unlike the average house in this country which throws away about one third of the food they buy. Around €1000 a year. That is a nice money saving tip for people who think they might struggle to pay for their water. Similarly with petrol and electricity. Probably cost the average person many multiples of what they will pay for water. Savings to be made there. And in some cases it may be prudent to switch some of the expenditure on alcohol to help pay for water. There is much scope there with over €6 billion going on alcohol every year.

On the subject of the PSO Levy which you made such a song and dance about, I agree with the objectives of the levy and I hope my extra 50 cents goes some way to achieving them. I'm just back in for the great outdoors, it is very nice out there.

PSO Levy explained
The Public Service Obligation (PSO) Levy is paid by all electricity customers and helps subsidise government schemes that relate to national policies on renewable energy targets, indigenous fuels such as peat and to the security of the energy supply.

I'm glad to hear it. I hope you see my point though. Not everyone in this country is as fortunate as you and i swilling copius quantities of beer and firing bread into dustbins willynilly.
While i agree about the PSO, a fine tax it is, my only concern is that the regulator will hike up water prices as readily as he does electricity and associated stealth taxes. 233% is a fair old jump in 3 years!

I doubt the government would agree with you on cutting back on alcohol though, as 2 billion of that goes straight back into the coffers(maybe not our coffers, but someones anyway).

Glad you enjoyed your stroll.

Little CuChulainn

Banjo String wrote: »

I'm pretty sure both my wife and I, and our two kids are in the system for child benefit.

They can't cross reference with them

So you object to giving them your pps number but you have no problem with them having full access to the social welfare database, which of course is organised using your ppsn as the primary data point.

chasm

Banjo String wrote: »

I'm pretty sure both my wife and I, and our two kids are in the system for child benefit.

They can't cross reference with them

People in receipt of child benefit may not be customers of IW so i'd say it would be a bigger data protection issue cross referencing that way.Probably easier and cheaper to only check the PPSN of people who return the form stating that they are a customer of IW than checking every single PPSN of those in receipt of CB.

shruikan2553

Have they managed to give a real reason for needing 1 PPSN from a house without children? Are they afraid I'll sign up to pay other peoples bills?

Ogham

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Have they managed to give a real reason for needing 1 PPSN from a house without children? Are they afraid I'll sign up to pay other peoples bills?

People with second/third homes can't get the allowance on those homes - only on their main residence.
Using PPS will guarantee no double awarding of the allowance.
People might say use dob + name instead - but there are possibly people more than one person with same name and dob.

Ogham

rsl1976 wrote: »

Its reading 00061. There are 5 adults and 2 children in my house. My neighbour who has 3 adults in her house is reading 00083 and another neighbour with 2 adults and 4 small children is reading 00042. All very confusing as I imagine the children would waste more.

The meters might not have all been set to zero at the start. It's the reading as of midnight 30th sept that will be the starting point for charging
Assuming you are reading the black numbers and not the red and if your meter was only in 4 days and you used 61000 litres that is very excessive . I can only hope for you sake that it wasn't at zero when fitted.
You should check the meter before you all leave the house and when all appliances etc are off - then check when you come back. Any usage probably means a leak.

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

So you don't mind IW getting your PPSN from the DSP but you're totally against them getting it from you!

I never mentioned them getting my Pps number from them?

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

So you object to giving them your pps number but you have no problem with them having full access to the social welfare database, which of course is organised using your ppsn as the primary data point.

No, again I think you might need to read my post again. I asked why they couldn't cross check with sw as to the amount of children in receipt of CB.

Eg, you put the amount of kids in home on the form, Irish Water ask sw to confirm this amount of children are getting CB payments.

It's hardly rocket science, no need for PPSN either.

chasm wrote: »

People in receipt of child benefit may not be customers of IW so i'd say it would be a bigger data protection issue cross referencing that way.Probably easier and cheaper to only check the PPSN of people who return the form stating that they are a customer of IW than checking every single PPSN of those in receipt of CB.

Why would Irish Water need to cross check with sw for people who aren't their customers?

That makes no sense.

Phoebas

Banjo String wrote: »

I never mentioned them getting my Pps number from them?



No, again I think you might need to read my post again. I asked why they couldn't cross check with sw as to the amount of children in receipt of CB.

Eg, you put the amount of kids in home on the form, Irish Water ask sw to confirm this amount of children are getting CB payments.

It's hardly rocket science, no need for PPSN either.




Why would Irish Water need to cross check with sw for people who aren't their customers?

That makes no sense.

Your not making sense here Banjo. For a cross reference with the DSP, they'd need to provide your DSP Primary Identifier which is the PPSN.
But you don't want to share your PPSN with IW.

shruikan2553

Ogham wrote: »

People with second/third homes can't get the allowance on those homes - only on their main residence.
Using PPS will guarantee no double awarding of the allowance.
People might say use dob + name instead - but there are possibly people more than one person with same name and dob.

Is there many people who live alone and live in multiple places? Seems a bit overkill for a problem that isn't really that much of a problem.

Phoebas

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Is there many people who live alone and live in multiple places? Seems a bit overkill for a problem that isn't really that much of a problem.

What's overkill about a simple PPSN check? Its a pretty simple solution.
Other people are coming up with complex alternatives which involve attempting to share information amongst service providers while refusing to share their identifiers that those providers use.

Guy:Incognito

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Electricity and gas meters the guy asked to be installed?

Typical FG/'labour' speak to talking about 'stealing' water, water that our taxes have been paying for for decades.

Ok lets just say your taxes paid for it for decades. You've used that water ,its dirty and gone back in to the system. The country cant afford to keep cleaning and pumping it back to your house.

Maybe they should cut everyones water off and see who wants it back on. All you have to do is ask for a meter. I see all the crap on facebook about some perceive "natural right" to water and "its a natural resource, we shouldn't have to pay for it". I don't see these people out drilling for their own oil and gas.

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

Your not making sense here Banjo. For a cross reference with the DSP, they'd need to provide your DSP Primary Identifier which is the PPSN.
But you don't want to share your PPSN with IW.

I don't buy for one second that a semi state body cannot ask a Govt department to confirm or deny if a family is in receipt of child benefit, and if so, for how many children.

And as I've pointed out earlier, Irish water told me themselves that they've already been granted permission to access the lpt data base (hence where they're getting people's details)

For some unknown reason, they want us to volunteer the PPSN, and our signature to allow them to pass it on.

It'll all come out in the end. It always does.

In the meantime, I'll sit tight.

Guy:Incognito

Banjo String wrote: »

I never mentioned them getting my Pps number from them?



No, again I think you might need to read my post again. I asked why they couldn't cross check with sw as to the amount of children in receipt of CB.

Eg, you put the amount of kids in home on the form, Irish Water ask sw to confirm this amount of children are getting CB payments.

It's hardly rocket science, no need for PPSN either.




Why would Irish Water need to cross check with sw for people who aren't their customers?

That makes no sense.

Why don't you listen to the link for the pat Kenny show pod cast. Get the answers from the horses mouth?

Any update on my post about you misrepresenting things in your sig?

Guy:Incognito

Banjo String wrote: »

And as I've pointed out earlier, Irish water told me themselves that they've already been granted permission to access the lpt data base (hence where they're getting people's details)
.

Who from Irish water?

As far as I remember (I was working so couldn't listen to every bit) the woman on Pat Kenny said there is no one database they can access to know straight off who all their customers are. Hence they send a form to every household and you self declare that you are, then if your not connected to the public supply you don't get charged. If you don't want the child allowance then feel free not to supply the pps numbers.

Banjo String

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why don't you listen to the link for the pat Kenny show pod cast. Get the answers from the horses mouth?

No your grand. I don't do propaganda tbh.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Any update on my post about you misrepresenting things in your sig?

Whats this?

shruikan2553

Phoebas wrote: »

What's overkill about a simple PPSN check? Its a pretty simple solution.
Other people are coming up with complex alternatives which involve attempting to share information amongst service providers while refusing to share their identifiers that those providers use.

Why bother with any solution? Checking is probably costing more vs letting the 5 people in the country living in 2 places on their own.

They arent doing anything to make sure I am only living with 1 other person, for all they know there are 3 or 4 here. That seems to be a bigger problem.

Guy:Incognito

Banjo String wrote: »

No your grand. I don't do propaganda tbh.

Propaganda? Answering questions that were asked including ones texted in by the public?

Convenient to ignore stuff that disproves your theories.

Banjo String wrote: »

Whats this?

It's odd that you see all the posts bar the ones that prove you wrong. Sure I'll throw it up again. From your own link it gives a list of approved people you can give your pps too.


http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/PPSN-Register-of-Users---Other-Users.aspx
An Foras Aiseanna Saothair (FÁS)
An tÁrd-Chláraitheoir (The General Registrar)
Central Applications Office
Central Statistics Office (CSO)
Coillte Teoranta
Companies Registration Office (CRO)
Courts Service
Enterprise Ireland
General Medical Services Payments Board
Health and Social Care Professionals Council (known as Coru)
The Higher Education Authority (An tUdaras um Ard-Oideachas)
Irish Prison Service (IPS)
Irish Water
National Cancer Registry Board
Pensions Board
Personal Injuries Assessment Board
Quality and Qualifications Ireland
Road Safety Authority
The Teaching Council
The Legal Aid Board
The Private Residential Tenancies Board
The Private Security Authority
The Probate Office
The Property Services Regulatory Authority

Little CuChulainn

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Why bother with any solution? Checking is probably costing more vs letting the 5 people in the country living in 2 places on their own.

They arent doing anything to make sure I am only living with 1 other person, for all they know there are 3 or 4 here. That seems to be a bigger problem.

Why would that be an issue?

Guy:Incognito

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Why bother with any solution? Checking is probably costing more vs letting the 5 people in the country living in 2 places on their own.

They arent doing anything to make sure I am only living with 1 other person, for all they know there are 3 or 4 here. That seems to be a bigger problem.

Why does it matter how many people your living with, you pay for the metered amount of water. It's the free allowances for kids that's the issue. Otherwise it ends up with 2 and 3 households claiming for the same 5 kids and no one paying for any water.

shruikan2553

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Why would that be an issue?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why does it matter how many people your living with, you pay for the metered amount of water. It's the free allowances for kids that's the issue. Otherwise it ends up with 2 and 3 households claiming for the same 5 kids and no one paying for any water.

I'm not metered. The lazy bastards cant even work out how to meter me. Going by the list to another website I pay based on the number of adults so if I send my PPSN and say 1 adult is living here then I save money when there is more than 1 adult living here.

Guy:Incognito

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I'm not metered. The lazy bastards cant even work out how to meter me. Going by the list to another website I pay based on the number of adults so if I send my PPSN and say 1 adult is living here then I save money when there is more than 1 adult living here.

Lazy bastards or there isn't a practical way of doing it? Are you in an apartment?

dxhound2005

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I'm not metered. The lazy bastards cant even work out how to meter me. Going by the list to another website I pay based on the number of adults so if I send my PPSN and say 1 adult is living here then I save money when there is more than 1 adult living here.

Have a good read of the declaration on the form which you have to tick to say that information you supply is correct and honest. There are legal sanctions attached to making a false declaration.

Fr. Ned

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The country cant afford to keep cleaning and pumping it back to your house.

Why's that?

Satriale

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ok lets just say your taxes paid for it for decades. You've used that water ,its dirty and gone back in to the system. The country cant afford to keep cleaning and pumping it back to your house.

Maybe they should cut everyones water off and see who wants it back on. All you have to do is ask for a meter. I see all the crap on facebook about some perceive "natural right" to water and "its a natural resource, we shouldn't have to pay for it". I don't see these people out drilling for their own oil and gas.

Maybe they should ask everyone do they want a water charge? If there is such huge support for it there will be no problem.

They do pay for it already.

You'll manage more than a few days without oil and gas. There should never even be a chance of the privatisation the water on this island, and there is more than a chance with this set up.

Guy:Incognito

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Why's that?

Back to this again?
Even though I know you know.
The country takes in X per year. The country currently cost X+Y to run. Not bailouts, banks or any other rabble rabble stuff, hospitals, schools, civil servants, etc.

So we can either raise Y by taxes etc and cutting costs or we can borrow it and pay interest on it.

Guy:Incognito

Satriale wrote: »

Maybe they should ask everyone do they want a water charge? If there is such huge support for it there will be no problem.

If you ask the people they would rather pay for nothing, what does that prove?

Do you think we should borrow the shortfall in the economy and pay interest on it or pay for it up front with money we have , interest free?