***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

shruikan2553

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Lazy bastards or there isn't a practical way of doing it? Are you in an apartment?

Lazy. Yes, Im in an apartment.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Have a good read of the declaration on the form which you have to tick to say that information you supply is correct and honest. There are legal sanctions attached to making a false declaration.

How do they know its honest and correct? They dont trust those who live in multiple houses on their own to be honest. What if someone else moves in a week? They dont mention that I have to keep them updated on my housemate arrangement.

Ogham

Phoebas wrote: »

What's overkill about a simple PPSN check? Its a pretty simple solution.
Other people are coming up with complex alternatives which involve attempting to share information amongst service providers while refusing to share their identifiers that those providers use.

If stopping second home owners was the main/only reason for PPS numbers for IW - then it would be a bit over the top considering all the hassle and bad feeling it's causing them.
They could have just assumed most people are honest and take a small loss of income for those that aren't. Same with the number of kids.

The whole PPS number thing could have been avoided if the govt didn't bring in the last minute idea of free allowances.
Irish Water wanted a standing charge and lower unit charge - and no free allowances. Govt instucted otherwise. Now they can just deflect the anger towards Irish Water .

Guy:Incognito

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Lazy. Yes, Im in an apartment.


.

Does the plumbing in the building allow for each apartment to be metered and have those meters accessible?

From the many apartment buildings I've worked in that answer is no btw (I was a plumber up until a career change so I've an idea)

Fr. Ned

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Back to this again?
Even though I know you know.
The country takes in X per year. The country currently cost X+Y to run. Not bailouts, banks or any other rabble rabble stuff, hospitals, schools, civil servants, etc.

So we can either raise Y by taxes etc and cutting costs or we can borrow it and pay interest on it.

Not true.

If we weren't paying the interest on bank debt we would have a budget surplus as it stands.
If we had the €64 billion they cost us we'd be well off.

Guy:Incognito

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Not true.

If we weren't paying the interest on bank debt we would have a budget surplus as it stands.
If we had the €64 billion they cost us we'd be well off.

Any figures for that?



As a separate issue, if all this had been done 15 years ago, we'd have a larger tax base to have been working on up to now.

Fr. Ned

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Any figures for that?



As a separate issue, if all this had been done 15 years ago, we'd have a larger tax base to have been working on up to now.

I'll start with this article by Colm McCarthy.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Fopinion%2Fanalysis%2Fcolm-mccarthy-this-burden-of-bank-debt-is-simply-not-sustainable-26833432.html&ei=dFcoVMryOoLB7Aa25YCwCg&usg=AFQjCNEM6qtT7UmoLCq4EmJGFs_PPqpxmw


I'm sure you understand too that €64 billion will be 1/3 of our debt mountain when it peaks.

bladespin

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

As a separate issue, if all this had been done 15 years ago, we'd have a larger tax base to have been working on up to now.

This is true but then it wouldn't have been already paid for from the income tax etc so the double taxation issue wouldn't be such a thorn for most people.

That and it would most likely already have been privatized, bust and been bought back by the state at a massive loss of course.

dxhound2005

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Lazy. Yes, Im in an apartment.



How do they know its honest and correct? They dont trust those who live in multiple houses on their own to be honest. What if someone else moves in a week? They dont mention that I have to keep them updated on my housemate arrangement.

If you decide to complete the application form please do not give false information. You will be committing an offence. You should contact IW to advise them of any change to your circumstances.

Section F Declaration
It is an offence under the Water Services Act, 2007 (as amended) to knowingly provide false or misleading
information in this form and a person who does so is liable to a fine on summary conviction.
By completing and returning this form, I declare that to the best of my knowledge all of the information
provided is true and accurate. If I have confirmed that I am connected to the public water main and/or the
public sewer then I declare that I am a customer of Irish Water, otherwise I am declaring that I am not a
customer of Irish Water. Where I have declared I am a customer of Irish Water, I am confirming I have the
authority to open an account at the premises and that I am liable for water charges at the premises. I confirm
that I will advise Irish Water if there is any material change to the information provided in this form.
Explanations and terms used in this form are intended as a guide only and are not a legal interpretation.
Please tick the box to confirm you have read and understood the declaration:

Banjo String

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Propaganda? Answering questions that were asked including ones texted in by the public?

Convenient to ignore stuff that disproves your theories.


It's odd that you see all the posts bar the ones that prove you wrong. Sure I'll throw it up again. From your own link it gives a list of approved people you can give your pps too.


http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/PPSN-Register-of-Users---Other-Users.aspx
An Foras Aiseanna Saothair (FÁS)
An tÁrd-Chláraitheoir (The General Registrar)
Central Applications Office
Central Statistics Office (CSO)
Coillte Teoranta
Companies Registration Office (CRO)
Courts Service
Enterprise Ireland
General Medical Services Payments Board
Health and Social Care Professionals Council (known as Coru)
The Higher Education Authority (An tUdaras um Ard-Oideachas)
Irish Prison Service (IPS)
Irish Water
National Cancer Registry Board
Pensions Board
Personal Injuries Assessment Board
Quality and Qualifications Ireland
Road Safety Authority
The Teaching Council
The Legal Aid Board
The Private Residential Tenancies Board
The Private Security Authority
The Probate Office
The Property Services Regulatory Authority

Well, no I'm not 'wrong' it's right there in my signature tbh.

Anyone who wants to view it in welfare.ie is welcome to, I can't go in and change the text.

Does the website contradict Itself? Yeah. Not my fault though.

lacco

Which and whatever way you want to look at this irish water are going about this the completely wrong way and have managed to p**s an awful lot of people off and the charges haven't even come in yet!! They just don't seem to have a clue what they are doing or else they are misleading the public. No prices for water yet in their booklet what a joke. And the pc brigade will make excuse after excuse for this inept incompetent company.Talking to a guy today own well and septic tank he didn't even know he had to fill in the irishwater application pack because he isn't a customer so why would they need to know anything about him be. When I said he could be billed if he didn't fill in the form his reaction was ' on for f*8k sake.' The whole thing is so badly managed it's farcical.

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

Well, no I'm not 'wrong' it's right there in my signature tbh.

Anyone who wants to view it in welfare.ie is welcome to, I can't go in and change the text.

Does the website contradict Itself? Yeah. Not my fault though.

Using your legal knowledge and qualifications what is the status of the information provided on a website in the event of a court case. Or maybe this is not an area in which you practice.

Ogham

lacco wrote: »

Which and whatever way you want to look at this irish water are going about this the completely wrong way and have managed to p**s an awful lot of people off and the charges haven't even come in yet!! They just don't seem to have a clue what they are doing or else they are misleading the public. No prices for water yet in their booklet what a joke. And the pc brigade will make excuse after excuse for this inept incompetent company.Talking to a guy today own well and septic tank he didn't even know he had to fill in the irishwater application pack because he isn't a customer so why would they need to know anything about him be. When I said he could be billed if he didn't fill in the form his reaction was ' on for f*8k sake.' The whole thing is so badly managed it's farcical.

Can the guy not read the form? It says clearly what to do if you have your own well+septc tank.

Guy:Incognito

Banjo String wrote: »

Well, no I'm not 'wrong' it's right there in my signature tbh.

Anyone who wants to view it in welfare.ie is welcome to, I can't go in and change the text.

Does the website contradict Itself? Yeah. Not my fault though.

Ah not wrong, just deliberately misleading.

As long as you judge others by the same shady standards there shouldnt be any issues.

Ogham

Banjo String wrote: »

Well, no I'm not 'wrong' it's right there in my signature tbh.

Anyone who wants to view it in welfare.ie is welcome to, I can't go in and change the text.

Does the website contradict Itself? Yeah. Not my fault though.

How about q12 ?

Q12. Am I obliged to provide the number if a public body asks for it?

A12. Yes. Once an agency is entitled to use the number, a person who has a transaction with that agency must provide the number on request.

Guy:Incognito

lacco wrote: »

Which and whatever way you want to look at this irish water are going about this the completely wrong way and have managed to p**s an awful lot of people off and the charges haven't even come in yet!! They just don't seem to have a clue what they are doing or else they are misleading the public. No prices for water yet in their booklet what a joke. And the pc brigade will make excuse after excuse for this inept incompetent company.Talking to a guy today own well and septic tank he didn't even know he had to fill in the irishwater application pack because he isn't a customer so why would they need to know anything about him be. When I said he could be billed if he didn't fill in the form his reaction was ' on for f*8k sake.' The whole thing is so badly managed it's farcical.

The price is up to the regulator is it not?

They could chuck a figure in there I suppose but then people will be given out to for being lied too ( though as long as it's in there somewhere that the price is made up and the will charge you a different amount come implementation then it's all good, eh banjo string?)


Anyway, charging hasn't started yet, they are putting in the charging infrastructure. If the price is published by the start of the first billing cycle then omplaints are plenty justified.

If the guy in question read the information he was sent then he might know. This was covered by the woman on pat Kenny too.

dxhound2005

lacco wrote: »

Which and whatever way you want to look at this irish water are going about this the completely wrong way and have managed to p**s an awful lot of people off and the charges haven't even come in yet!! They just don't seem to have a clue what they are doing or else they are misleading the public. No prices for water yet in their booklet what a joke. And the pc brigade will make excuse after excuse for this inept incompetent company.Talking to a guy today own well and septic tank he didn't even know he had to fill in the irishwater application pack because he isn't a customer so why would they need to know anything about him be. When I said he could be billed if he didn't fill in the form his reaction was ' on for f*8k sake.' The whole thing is so badly managed it's farcical.

I recall this same invective being heaped on the Household Charge process, Big Phil hasn't a clue, just do nothing and it will go away etc.

Banjo String

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ah not wrong, just deliberately misleading.

As long as you judge others by the same shady standards there shouldnt be any issues.

Misleading.

Where did the money come from to set up Irish Water?

Was it from the LPT that we were assured was to be spent where........?

Come on.......... You can say it.............

Satriale

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If you ask the people they would rather pay for nothing, what does that prove?

You should have more faith in people, I'd vote for water charges.

Do you think we should borrow the shortfall in the economy and pay interest on it or pay for it up front with money we have , interest free?

Any money we have should have been spent fixing the scandalous 50% of clean water p1ssing back into the ground. 50%!!
Instead we have a shower of eejits trying to bleed every last penny they can out of the economy setting up jobs for the boys.
Its like they are trying to hold this country back!

lacco

Ogham wrote: »

Can the guy not read the form? It says clearly what to do if you have your own well+septc tank.[/QUOTE

No why would he be reading the form? He has his own system irishwater has nothing to do with him.

Larbre34

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Do you think we should borrow the shortfall in the economy and pay interest on it or pay for it up front with money we have , interest free?

This has nothing specifically do to with water. This keystone cops water regime was imposed by the troika, whereas far more money will be generated in this years growing economy to make up the shortfall you are concerned about than will be generated by water charges.

There is no justification for imposing charges for a decrepit system which should first be repaired using the resources of a growing economy before daring to come to taxpayers with a sham of a stealth tax.

dxhound2005

Satriale wrote: »

You should have more faith in people, I'd vote for water charges.





Any money we have should have been spent fixing the scandalous 50% of clean water p1ssing back into the ground. 50%!!
Instead we have a shower of eejits trying to bleed every last penny they can out of the economy setting up jobs for the boys.
Its like they are trying to hold this country back!

Where did that 50% figure come from?

Guy:Incognito

Banjo String wrote: »

Misleading.

Where did the money come from to set up Irish Water?

Was it from the LPT that we were assured was to be spent where........?

Come on.......... You can say it.............

So now we've moved from misleading to changing the subject.

dxhound2005

lacco wrote: »

Ogham wrote: »

Can the guy not read the form? It says clearly what to do if you have your own well+septc tank.

No why would he be reading the form? He has his own system irishwater has nothing to do with him.

Why was he having a conversation with you about something which is nothing to do with him?

Guy:Incognito

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Where did that 50% figure come from?

Someone's guesstimate I'd imagine. I can't see how they'd know tbh.

If it's anything like other figures I hear about various things from people it came from a guy that works for the council that looked in a hole one day and went "jess, half the waters getting away" and that's now gospel.

eeepaulo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Why was he having a conversation with you about something which is nothing to do with him?

They expect people with no connection to the water fill in the form.

Guy:Incognito

Larbre34 wrote: »

This has nothing specifically do to with water. This keystone cops water regime was imposed by the troika, whereas far more money will be generated in this years growing economy to make up the shortfall you are concerned about than will be generated by water charges.

There is no justification for imposing charges for a decrepit system which should first be repaired using the resources of a growing economy before daring to come to taxpayers with a sham of a stealth tax.

Water rates have been coming since long before irish people had ever heard the word troika. I'd be happy we got away with it for so long and move on tbh.

allthedoyles

Are these letters been sent to every house in Ireland regardless of where they get their water from ?

Banjo String

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So now we've moved from misleading to changing the subject.

How is discussing the setup coat of Irish Water, and where that money. Came from. On a thread about Irish Water. Changing the subject?

Were tax payers 'mislead' do you think

Guy:Incognito

eeepaulo wrote: »

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They expect people with no connection to the water fill in the form.

Uses, to let them know they are on their own system, that's all. Again, have a listen to the podcast.

They don't have a database of who is or isn't on the system, who was and has since moved to their own well, whoel was on a well and is on the public system now, who has a mixture etc.so everyone gets a form. Everyone fills it in, now there a Base line database to work off.

Guy:Incognito

allthedoyles wrote: »

Are these letters been sent to every house in Ireland regardless of where they get their water from ?

Yes,