***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Cantona's Collars

Daith wrote: »

In fairness our water infrastructure is under funded and in tatters. Whether it needs an Irish Water to fix this is another thing.

Imagine how much infrastructure would be repaired or replaced by councils with all that money that's been spent so far setting up IW?

Daith

zerks wrote: »

Imagine how much infrastructure would be repaired or replaced by councils with all that money that's been spent so far setting up IW?

Well the council staff are still going to be doing this really. Irish Water are more a billing company at present than anything to do with the infrastructure.

suicide_circus wrote: »

So will IW receive funding from state coffers as well as billing?

Sure the Government are providing money otherwise water charges would be higher.

paulbok

zerks wrote: »

Seeing as the govt. were insistent on bringing in water charges,why couldn't they have simply kept the LA's in charge of water provision (they are responsible for maintaining the network for the next decade anyway) and use some of the money from the Property Tax to pay for it rather than giving it to bondholders.
The Irish way of course is set up a new quango with the same old "jobs for the boys" mentality and create a massive trough for the pigs to dip their snouts into.To add insult to injury this quango want our most sensitive information & refuse to tell anyone what they really intend to do with it.
I listen to The Last Word a lot & this topic comes up time & again,yet each & every time Irish Water refuse to go on the show to answer questions or clarify things.

I would have thought that if they wanted to have IW as a private company, that they would have initially set it up as a public body, build it up, fix the leaks and then sell it, like Bord Gais. At least that way the investment could be someways recouped.

So anyone want to guess as to how long it will take for an inquiry to be setup on the establishment of IW? I'll go with 2019.

Cantona's Collars

Daith wrote: »

Well the council staff are still going to be doing this really. Irish Water are more a billing company at present than anything to do with the infrastructure.

That's my point,millions spent yet the same fellas with the diggers & shovels that have always done the work for the council will continue to do it.

suicide_circus

Daith wrote: »

Well the council staff are still going to be doing this really. Irish Water are more a billing company at present than anything to do with the infrastructure.



Sure the Government are providing money otherwise water charges would be higher.

And where does the government's money come from?

Pretty sure a billing company could have been set up for a tiny fraction of what IW has cost so far.

I've no problem paying for a water. I do have a problem with the shambolic and criminally wasteful manner in which IW has been set up.

eeepaulo

suicide_circus wrote: »

So will IW receive funding from state coffers as well as billing?

€278 for family, €176 single person, 1.35 million houses.

Lets call it €250 * 1.35 million is about 340 million

Or to put it another way in 2 years time we will only have paid for the set up costs and meter costs.

So yes, we will have to continue to fund irish water through general taxation

BarryD

zerks wrote: »

To add insult to injury this quango want our most sensitive information & refuse to tell anyone what they really intend to do with it.

Ah come on.. your address, telephone number, email address and PPS number - that's hardly your most sensitive information, is it??

I do understand the argument about what has been publicly funded infrastructure to date potentially passing into private hands but is that not in the future, if at all. As far as I understand, it's a semi state company like the ESB : 'Incorporated in July 2013, as a semi-state company under the Water Services Act 2013, Irish Water will bring the water and wastewater services of the 34 Local Authorities together under one national service provider'
http://www.water.ie/about-us/company/about-irish-water/

rubadub

What was the thinking behind the free childrens allowance?

was there any other allowances considered, like owning a dog? or a lot of plants?

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-payments-pps-number-1676392-Sep2014/

He said that there had been “enormous confusion and anger this morning” because of statements from Fine Gael which gave the impression that people will be exempt from water charges if they are on long-term boil water notices.
Martin said there should be a complete exemption from Irish Water bills for people who cannot drink contaminated water.

Was there any discussion about flouride? which many would consider a contamination which renders it not fit for human consumption.

lacco

BarryD wrote: »

Ah come on.. your address, telephone number, email address and PPS number - that's hardly your most sensitive information, is it??

I do understand the argument about what has been publicly funded infrastructure to date potentially passing into private hands but is that not in the future, if at all. As far as I understand, it's a semi state company like the ESB : 'Incorporated in July 2013, as a semi-state company under the Water Services Act 2013, Irish Water will bring the water and wastewater services of the 34 Local Authorities together under one national service provider'

PPS number is very sensitive information.

eeepaulo

rubadub wrote: »

What was the thinking behind the free childrens allowance?

was there any other allowances considered, like owning a dog? or a lot of plants?

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-payments-pps-number-1676392-Sep2014/

Was there any discussion about flouride? which many would consider a contamination which renders it not fit for human consumption.

The childrens allowance is probably some sort of nod towards creating a society, where we take care of those less able.

The minion on newstalk said that fluoride is entirely down to the department of health (i think, certainly a different department makes that decision)

Ghost Buster

Has anyone from the government or IW given any explanation for the constant claim that IW 'cannot possibly be sold or privatised' when the actual wording of the legistlation clearly state that this is only so UNLESS THE MINISTER WANTS TO DO OTHERWISE??

Tony EH

Leroy42 wrote: »

Still, no matter peoples opinion on the need for water charges, this whole IW has been a shambles from the moment it was set up.

It is clear that decisions are being made on the back of public reaction rather than on any particular plan. It is therefore fairly clear that IW will become the play thing of each government.

If the government want to impose water charges then so be it, make a cogent arguement and set up a facility to properly and fairly charge people for it.

The system is so full of holes it is unbelievable that €50m+ was spent on consultants.

Welcome to the world of Irish privatisation.

It isn't going to get any better.

Banjo String

lacco wrote: »

PPS number is very sensitive information.

Read this.

http://obriend.info/2014/09/30/irish-water-and-ppsn-data/

Some indication of their true intentions?

Timberrrrrrrr

Banjo String wrote: »

Read this.

http://obriend.info/2014/09/30/irish-water-and-ppsn-data/

Some indication of their true intentions?

Or some conspiracy theorists (not very good) blog.

BarryD

lacco wrote: »

PPS number is very sensitive information.

Please explain why? I routinely give out my PPS number on all manner of forms - for payments, accounts, benefits and so on.

The principal reason I can think of why people might regard their PPS number as 'sensitive', is if they're screwing the system in some way and don't want to be rumbled.

Not saying that's the case for you or anyone else here but it's the 'obvious' conclusion.

To wit, I heard someone representing the 'middle classes' on the media recently and she was concerned that the state would be able to tie PPS numbers to properties people owned etc. So what, says I - unless of course, said person has a nice little rental thing going, cash only and no questions asked.

MadYaker

This is the exact same as the lpt. Big fuss beforehand with lots of people saying they won't pay. Fast forward a year and compliance is over 90%. This will be the same.

eeepaulo

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Or some conspiracy theorists (not very good) blog.

I linked to another article by that same blogger the other day

http://obriend.info/2014/09/25/irish-water-a-data-architecture-thought-noodle/

It started with this sentence, is this what all conspiracy theorists sound like?

[preamble: This is a thought noodle. It's not a solution. It just sets out possible options for an alternative approach. I fully expect issues and wrinkles to be pointed out. ]

Timberrrrrrrr

eeepaulo wrote: »

I linked to another article by that same blogger the other day

http://obriend.info/2014/09/25/irish-water-a-data-architecture-thought-noodle/

It started with this sentence, is this what all conspiracy theorists sound like?

I don't know, i try to avoid them where possible.

Larbre34

Daith wrote: »

In fairness our water infrastructure is under funded and in tatters. Whether it needs an Irish Water to fix this is another thing.

It doesn't.

The National Roads Authority project managed a revolution in Irish road building, and did a decent job of it, albeit when money was growing on trees.

That same NRA still exists even though there is nothing for them to manage. All the skills are the same, they should have been tasked with overhauling the major water infrastructure and bringing it up to an acceptable developed nation standard, BEFORE coming near people to charge for supply, and they should have done it with loans from the European investment fund, as it would have created lots of jobs.

The water charges being issued now aren't for water, they are to run the quango that may or may not improve the water system.

Either way, the first €180 million (and counting) p155ed away on Irish Water could have modernised the supply of 4 or 5 small towns where currently they are getting undrinkable swill, instead of being soaked up by another bloated semi-state white elephant.

Daith

suicide_circus wrote: »

I've no problem paying for a water. I do have a problem with the shambolic and criminally wasteful manner in which IW has been set up.

Indeed. IW spend tax payers money a on a gym? Sure why not. They've no problem spending money on luxuries themselves.

eeepaulo

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I don't know, i try to avoid them where possible.

[preamble: This is a thought noodle. It's not a solution. It just sets out possible options for an alternative approach. I fully expect issues and wrinkles to be pointed out. ]

Someone might not enforce my views, conspiracy!

allthedoyles

I rang Irish Water and they confirmed to me that my annual bill will be 483 euro , and an allowance of 21,000 litres for child .

I asked them what this allowance equates to in money terms and Irish Water did not know the answer.

Larbre34

MadYaker wrote: »

This is the exact same as the lpt. Big fuss beforehand with lots of people saying they won't pay. Fast forward a year and compliance is over 90%. This will be the same.

No it won't. LPT and Household Charge and NPPR charge were linked to Revenue compliance which put the gun to peoples head. People need to be tax compliant to run their lives. Water charges are purely commercial,ignoring water charges will not affect your tax compliance.

I predict far greater disobedience with regard to water charges because people see the inherent unfairness and shambolic background to their imposition.

MadYaker

They can reduce your supply to a trickle though.

lacco

BarryD wrote: »

Please explain why? I routinely give out my PPS number on all manner of forms - for payments, accounts, benefits and so on.

The principal reason I can think of why people might regard their PPS number as 'sensitive', is if they're screwing the system in some way and don't want to be rumbled.

Not saying that's the case for you or anyone else here but it's the 'obvious' conclusion.

To wit, I heard someone representing the 'middle classes' on the media recently and she was concerned that the state would be able to tie PPS numbers to properties people owned etc. So what, says I - unless of course, said person has a nice little rental thing going, cash only and no questions asked.

Barry if you don't see your pps number as sensitive information that's your business. Go back and read what irish water have to say regarding sharing and storage of data. It's not good enough for me. My kids pps numbers are not being handed out willy nilly to a company who is offering very little to the customer in the way of data protection. My kids data should be stored in this state end of.

Leroy42

Can someone please inform me here.

As far as can I see non-metered flat charge is €176 for a single household, with each additional adult being charges €102.

So in effect if you put your number on the form you are taking the hit for the extra €74. How can they judge one person to be 174 and then the next only 102, surely they expect each to use the same amount of water?

I can only assume that its based on a shared amouont of water (ie same sink to wash the dishes). Thats a shared water usuage of 41L per day, that seems a lot.

Tenshot

MadYaker wrote: »

They can reduce your supply to a trickle though.

Anyone know how they plan to enforce this for non-metred households, where the water supply is shared with other premises? I doubt they'll trickle-feed everyone connected to that supply, just because a small number of users are non-compliant.

Banjo String

MadYaker wrote: »

They can reduce your supply to a trickle though.

How?

bladespin

Banjo String wrote: »

How?

I took a look at the set-up and wondered the same, the only way of interfering with the supply rate as far as I could see is by winding the stop, nothing stopping joe bloggs turning it back to full.

Tony EH

I'm sure IW are looking into legal restrictions to penalise Mr and Mrs Bloggs for doing such a thing at this very minute.