***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Banjo String

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course it is. Everyone knows you shower before you flush, because the flush would affect the water pressure in the shower. Then you put the kettle on.

Tell us more about these court appearance Maryanne.

What happens to non payers? I want to know what I'm letting myself in for?

smash

Beaner1 wrote: »

Council house scum and bullies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3mMzMI8t8A

All I see are people acting like scumbags, kicking a car and falling over.

Scuttery underpants

I notice this morning in the news Enda and his "gang" will be able to claim back for their water... Isn't that nice of the private company they are "serving" to do that for them...?

micosoft

eeepaulo wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is? We are better off than the uk? is that the limit of your ambition?

There are countries that shoot people, so a good kicking is ok?

The point is that the only party that opposes water charges actually charges twice as much for services overall where they are in power despite getting a massive subsidy from the British Government.

In any debate it is normal to show evidence that what you propose works/does not work in similar situations. So describe what your ambition is? What evidence can you show of another country delivering water services from general taxation?

T-Maxx

Banjo String wrote: »

Tell us more about these court appearance Maryanne.

What happens to non payers? I want to know what I'm letting myself in for?

You'll find out soon enough.:D

Be sure to report back here how you're getting on then pretty please.

cocoman

Ogham wrote: »

You can put in for "priority" meter if you think your usage is way below assessed levels. There is a rebate scheme too - s oonce you get a meter and it shows you were paying too much on unmetered bills- you get the difference back. Apparently thayhave budgeted €44 million for it - so they must know a lot of people will be charged too much on assessed charges.
See: http://www.moneyguideireland.com/rebates-on-water-charges-worth-up-to-e45-million.html

Where do you read the details about applying for a "priority" meter?

BoJack Horseman

Scuttery underpants wrote: »

I notice this morning in the news Enda and his "gang" will be able to claim back for their water... Isn't that nice of the private company they are "serving" to do that for them...?

Expenced from oireachtas accounts.
IW still get their money.

micosoft

Scuttery underpants wrote: »

I notice this morning in the news Enda and his "gang" will be able to claim back for their water... Isn't that nice of the private company they are "serving" to do that for them...?

No. He pays full whack for his home. Under legilsation create in 1997 (long before IW was created or Enda had any part to play) Senior Ministers who had to have a SECOND home in Dublin, because, you know, not everyone lives in Dublin that becomes a minister, could get an a reduction for these costs as they were in effect forced to get a second residence in Dublin.

I actually think it's fair enough unless you are proposing that Minsters from the country (like Mayo) should be doubly punished by having to rent a SECOND home for the duration of the minstership and pay all charges on the double. Given they can only use water in the location they live in, it's fair enough from an actual usage perspective as well.

Banjo String

BBC report from a slightly different angle from RTE.

Local shops are doing a booming trade in bottled water - but public opinion has reached boiling point in the town as the charges come into effect.

"I just think in this day and age it's absolutely disgraceful, especially for tourists and everything else. We're not that poor a country that we can't fix this or resolve this," says Aaron Sharkey.

Responding to public anger, an eleventh-hour discount from water charges has been announced for those with undrinkable tap water, but it will not help some businesses.



Raising money from water charges was a condition imposed on Ireland by the EU-IMF-ECB troika as part of the country's bailout in 2010 following economic collapse.

Protests have taken place in different parts of the country, usually when contractors come to install meters for the new water-charging regime.

At one such demonstration in a west Dublin suburb, contractors watch from their vans as residents chant: "Irish water will be free, from the river to the sea."

The protest is good humoured. "The workers are complaining they can't sleep at night over the water issue - because they're sleeping so much during the day, in their vans," says protest organiser, Dublin City councillor Pat Dunne.

"We could supply the rest of Europe with water - we get that much of it. We're all wondering now what's going to happen - are they going to charge us for air?" asks another protester.

Paul Parsons is not involved in the protests but, standing outside his front door, he expresses a view which he claims is widespread among his neighbours.

"I don't think the government realise how much of a burden it would be to the people around this area who are already stretched financially - paying tax after tax after tax - and this is just one tax too far."



Demonstrations elsewhere in Dublin have been angrier - with some protesters warned they could face jail if they breach court orders.

Bills will range from 176 euros (£137) a year for a single-person household to nearly 500 euros (£389) for a family of four adults.

Paying for an essential that was once free seems to have generated more steam than most austerity cuts - with phone-ins and talk-shows deluged with debate over the measure.

Revelations that 86m euros is being spent on consultants to set up a new semi-state company in charge of water services, Irish Water, led to a national political storm.

Irish Water says it will run the system previously operated by local authorities much more efficiently. It says bringing Ireland's waterworks up to international standards will cost nearly 2bn euros for the next two years - to fix a system which loses almost half its treated water through leaks from old pipework.

http://m.bbc.com/news/business-29426733

Tony EH

"Paying for an essential that was once free..."

Why the hell does this nonsense keep getting pushed?

Fr. Ned

AlanS181824 wrote: »

And so it begins... Free water, you were good while you lasted.

Irish Water, feck you!

When was it free?

gandalf

Tony EH wrote: »

"Paying for an essential that was once free..."

Why the hell does this nonsense keep getting pushed?

FFS it was never free. It was paid by our taxes.

Fr. Ned

smash wrote: »

All I see are people acting like scumbags,

That's Dail TV for ya.......

Fr. Ned

Tony EH wrote: »

"Paying for an essential that was once free..."

Why the hell does this nonsense keep getting pushed?

It suits the ones depending on the trough being kept full.....The civil 'service', the public 'service' and the numerous semi-state companies who couldn't survive on their own without our taxes.

Tony EH

gandalf wrote: »

FFS it was never free. It was paid by our taxes.

It's amazing isn't it?

If I had a Euro for every time I've heard "free" in relation to Irish water supply, I'd have my bills sorted for the next few years.

tenacious-me

Hi,

searched the thread already for similar results but couldn't find anything.

I share with one other tenant I barely know, I want to pay the water charge, he doesn't; letting agency says it's up to us to sort out.

Any idea how to deal with this?

Register myself as the sole occupier and pay the €175 alone? Or register two occupants and look forward to arguments that go nowhere with this guy?

I can imagine saying there is only one occupant could lead to problems down the line.

Irish water FAQ is useless for this kind of thing even though I imagine lots of people will encounter a similar problem.

Zillah

I have to say, being on an assessed charge makes me feel rather aggravated. I have a fairly humble salary, but I'm also careful to keep my bills low so I'm pretty happy. I'm quite hostile to the idea that they are just going to pick a number and charge me that, regardless of how much I use. I can use a tenth or ten times as much as their guess and they're going to charge me the same no matter what. I really feel like there is a principled protest to be made over being charged an arbitrary bill. Install a water meter and I'll play along, but you don't get to bill me for what you imagine I use.

Hijpo

I dont think you have the right to supply a private company with information for someone other than yourself to be charged fees. You could find yourself in more trouble than owing 180 quid to a dodgy water company. I am open to correction though.

eeepaulo

micosoft wrote: »

The point is that the only party that opposes water charges actually charges twice as much for services overall where they are in power despite getting a massive subsidy from the British Government.

In any debate it is normal to show evidence that what you propose works/does not work in similar situations. So describe what your ambition is? What evidence can you show of another country delivering water services from general taxation?

In response to you earlier

Quote:
Originally Posted by micosoft
All the major parties, FG, FF, Labour had Water Charges in their manifesto. The only anti democrats are those protesting and rioting against policies that the vast majority of our citizens voted for - 74% of the vote went to parties that openly supported water charges.

FF - Nothing (well just some thing saying businesses would not pay more)

Labour -
Quote:
Ensuring access to safe water
Security of access to clean drinking water is essential for public health. This has been undermined by recent scandals of polluted water supplies, and drought caused by extreme weather. Labour does not favour water charges, which do not address the immediate needs of those who currently receive intermittent or poor water supplies. Labour will continue to invest in the water services programme as part of the capital budget, focusing on minimising treated water lost through leakage.
Interesting use of a comma there, gun wielding americans would be proud. I would suggest that 100 million+ set up and 500 million to put in the metres does not address the people who are on boil notices.

FG -
Quote:
Delivering Water: Fine Gael will deliver clean and reliable drinking water in all parts of the country by creating a single water utility company to take over responsibility of water from the fragmented local authorities that will use new investment and best practice to deliver better water services.
Water Charging: Fine Gael will introduce a fair funding model to deliver clean and reliable water. We will not ask home owners to pay for a broken and unreliable system and that is why Fine Gael will only introduce water charging after the establishment of a new State owned water utility company to take over responsibility from the separate local authorities for Ireland’s water infrastructure and to drive new investment.
They are doing what they said they would.

1) Ok so, the idea that all the parties is not true according to their own manifestos.

I see people making the extremely tenuous link by saying the majority of people voted for these parties in the election so they voted for water charges, even if we assume that everyone voted in the election only based on water

Total turn out 70%

FG 27.3%
Lab 19.4%

So FG actually got 19.1% of the people of ireland. It works out at 32.7 % of the actual people of ireland for the coalition, although labour said no charging until the water is usable.

2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by suicide_circus
So will IW receive funding from state coffers as well as billing?

€278 for family, €176 single person, 1.35 million houses.

Lets call it €250 * 1.35 million is about 340 million

Or to put it another way in 2 years time we will only have paid for the set up costs and meter costs.

So yes, we will have to continue to fund irish water through general taxation
Last edited by eeepaulo; Yesterday at 10:41. Reason: Not including the cost of actually running irish water, bet there are some lovely juicy bonuses coming

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...-30448386.html

Quote:
At 4.99pc of €22.5bn, the interest bill is €1.12bn
Quote:
The State can borrow seven-year debt for 1.2pc per year. The IMF loan has an average maturity of about seven years.At 1.2pc, the interest bill on €22.5bn would be €270m.
Quote:
Paying back the IMF early would trigger automatic repayment of a share of the bigger, and less onerous, EU portion of the bailout.
Any repayment by Ireland of loans from either the EU or IMF would trigger automatic repayment of an equal portion of the other bailout debts.
The estimated interest rates on the EU share of the loans from the European Financial Stability Facility and European Financial Stabilisation Mechanism range from about 2.3pc to just over 3pc.
Fianna Fail’s finance spokesman Michael McGrath, who obtained this information via a parliamentary question, said a strong case needs to be made to the troika to lift the restrictions on paying the IMF debt early.
That is only the imf part, the eu part is about 45 billion.

None of this debt was sovereign debt but lets pay another flat rate tax instead.

I am not proposing to burn bondholders or to remove our obligation to the bailout money, I am simply suggesting that what we are trying to do is to pay back the imf part of the loan, without it triggering the eu part. Does that sound like to much? We would save close to a billion in interest payments.

lacco

There's an interesting piece in The Irish Times about Irish water.

Sorry, I cannot post the link as I am a new user.


Anyway Some interesting information in there. They say based on international studies the average person used 52,00O litres of water.

They give figures for showers based on international studies for example a power shower uses 80 litres of water and taken daily will cost 38 cent bringing the total to 139 euros per year.


A regular shower uses 40 litres again based on international studies and one taken daily would cost 73 euros a year.

They say a toilet flush takes 10 litres of water so ten flushes daily would cost 150 euros per year.

A kettle boiled four times a day would cost 15 euros per year.

The current price is fixed till the end of 2016 according to Irish water.The Irish Times also says the average annual bill in the Uk is 550 euros while in Germany it can be more than 700.

I wonder what the average bill will be here after the first nine months.
Also it is very unfair that the same allowance is given to a dwelling with single occupancy as to one with more than one adult in it..Are people in this situation meant to share the toilet and shower together it makes no sense. Also are those allowances guaranteed for life or can they be taken away.

seamus

tenacious-me wrote: »

Hi,

searched the thread already for similar results but couldn't find anything.

I share with one other tenant I barely know, I want to pay the water charge, he doesn't; letting agency says it's up to us to sort out.

Any idea how to deal with this?

Register myself as the sole occupier and pay the €175 alone? Or register two occupants and look forward to arguments that go nowhere with this guy?

I can imagine saying there is only one occupant could lead to problems down the line.

Irish water FAQ is useless for this kind of thing even though I imagine lots of people will encounter a similar problem.

Effectively the situation is the same as any other utility bill, the cost of it must be shared by all tenants of the property.

You're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. You can't say there's only one person living there because that's a false declaration. You can say there are two people living in the property, but if you stick your name and PPSN down, you will be lumbered with the whole bill.

How do bills work at present? Do you split them, or does the landlord receive them and split them? If it's the latter, then the landlord should do the same for the water.

MadYaker

In our house the electricity bills etc are addressed to one tenant and we split the cost evenly. We are good friends and have known each other for years so its never an issue. I guess if you were living with people you didn't really know it would be a bit more awkward.

Timberrrrrrrr

Fr. Ned wrote: »

It suits the ones depending on the trough being kept full.....The civil 'service', the public 'service' and the numerous semi-state companies who couldn't survive on their own without our taxes.

You forgot "super quango nom dom rom com from the somme" Rabble Rabble :rolleyes:

Satriale

tenacious-me wrote: »

Hi,

searched the thread already for similar results but couldn't find anything.

I share with one other tenant I barely know, I want to pay the water charge, he doesn't; letting agency says it's up to us to sort out.

Any idea how to deal with this?

Register myself as the sole occupier and pay the €175 alone? Or register two occupants and look forward to arguments that go nowhere with this guy?

I can imagine saying there is only one occupant could lead to problems down the line.

Irish water FAQ is useless for this kind of thing even though I imagine lots of people will encounter a similar problem.

Agree to put the bill in his name, pay him your half and get a receipt from him for it. Your obligation is finished and IW will prosecute him in a court of law for not passing your money(and his own liability).

T-Maxx

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You forgot "super quango nom dom rom com from the somme" Rabble Rabble :rolleyes:

And the blueshirts - what about them blueshirts!:D

Timberrrrrrrr

T-Maxx wrote: »

And the blueshirts - what about them blueshirts!:D

Will soon be black, sure they wont be able to wash em now wit de price of de water and all

micosoft

eeepaulo wrote: »

In response to you earlier

1) Ok so, the idea that all the parties is not true according to their own manifestos.

I see people making the extremely tenuous link by saying the majority of people voted for these parties in the election so they voted for water charges, even if we assume that everyone voted in the election only based on water

Total turn out 70%

FG 27.3%
Lab 19.4%

So FG actually got 19.1% of the people of ireland. It works out at 32.7 % of the actual people of ireland for the coalition, although labour said no charging until the water is usable.

I excluded Sinn Fein from that analysis so not sure what your point is? FF introduced the legistlation for water charges.

You are presuming that everyone that did not vote is a. anti water b. is relevent. We are a democracy - if you choose not to vote you don't get a say. So your % here make no sense and show an alarming disregard for our democracy.

If you have a problem with our representitive democracy and want a different political system open a different thread.

Labour have met the requirement that those who have undrinkable water don't have to pay. It's done.

eeepaulo wrote: »

I am not proposing to burn bondholders or to remove our obligation to the bailout money, I am simply suggesting that what we are trying to do is to pay back the imf part of the loan, without it triggering the eu part. Does that sound like to much? We would save close to a billion in interest payments.

I agree. So apparently does the Government and they are trying to do that.

Hijpo

Satriale wrote: »

Agree to put the bill in his name, pay him your half and get a receipt from him for it. Your obligation is finished and IW will prosecute him in a court of law for not passing your money(and his own liability).

Chances are if he won't pay the charge then he won't willingly provide his own details to IW never mind accept that his room mate wants to give it to them.

Your eagerness to convinc people to accept this half arsed company of cronies is clouding your ability to think logically about situations.

Scuttery underpants

micosoft wrote: »

No. He pays full whack for his home. Under legilsation create in 1997 (long before IW was created or Enda had any part to play) Senior Ministers who had to have a SECOND home in Dublin, because, you know, not everyone lives in Dublin that becomes a minister, could get an a reduction for these costs as they were in effect forced to get a second residence in Dublin.

I actually think it's fair enough unless you are proposing that Minsters from the country (like Mayo) should be doubly punished by having to rent a SECOND home for the duration of the minstership and pay all charges on the double. Given they can only use water in the location they live in, it's fair enough from an actual usage perspective as well.

Well... YOU may think it's ok. But I certainly don't... Guff about people traveling from down the country and being a minister so it's ok..?
Are you for real..? I travel an 80 mile round trip every day to work. And I can't afford a second home. No one giving me no subs for it.... Forced or not.. So that is just pure guff.. They can still afford a second ****ing home can't they..? So pay... Like they're expecting us to do..

dashcamdanny

lacco wrote: »

There's an interesting piece in The Irish Times about Irish water.

Sorry, I cannot post the link as I am a new user.


Anyway Some interesting information in there. They say based on international studies the average person used 52,00O litres of water.

They give figures for showers based on international studies for example a power shower uses 80 litres of water and taken daily will cost 38 cent bringing the total to 139 euros per year.


A regular shower uses 40 litres again based on international studies and one taken daily would cost 73 euros a year.

They say a toilet flush takes 10 litres of water so ten flushes daily would cost 150 euros per year.

A kettle boiled four times a day would cost 15 euros per year.

The current price is fixed till the end of 2016 according to Irish water.The Irish Times also says the average annual bill in the Uk is 550 euros while in Germany it can be more than 700.

I wonder what the average bill will be here after the first nine months.
Also it is very unfair that the same allowance is given to a dwelling with single occupancy as to one with more than one adult in it..Are people in this situation meant to share the toilet and shower together it makes no sense. Also are those allowances guaranteed for life or can they be taken away.

Only new type toilets use that amount (or less), There are lots of toilets out there with big cisterns , Some using 20L a flush.

It may be worth putting a concrete brick in your cistern if you have the old style large toilets. And checking for ballcock leaks is vital.

I also saved a lot of water by changing my shower head from a 13 liters per min head to a 6 Liters per min eco type.

So a quick 4 min morning shower is only using 24 liters. Around 35 euro a year.

The day of enjoying a lovely hot shower is gone from today.